comparing the evolution of 'classic rock' between uk and usa

I mean, 'classic rock' is a very broad category. I get why Tom Petty and Eagles fans would have difficulties.

You really think people who consume Hendrix and early Zep as staples would have that much of an obstacle with Maggot Brain or Prince's soloing?

absolutely. and they do!

yeah, prince is so diametrically opposed to the classic rock format, I just don't even get what you're hearing. And Funkadelic is too weird. What song would you play? Stevie wonder never used any heavy guitars. Too pop.

More importantly, classic rock is a static format built on nostalgia. Any racism and segregation happened when the music was first played on the radio. Now you can't go back and reintroduce these people to Funkadelic if they're not already familiar with them. That's not how the format works. Just like nobody is going to add the VU into oldies rotation even though a song like Sunday Morning would fit in just fine. Occasionally a newer song will get integrated into the format (like "old time rock & roll" on oldies stations) but there's really no incentive to ever go backwards and reintroduce people to stuff they missed the first time around.

xps

we've talked here a lot about USA classic rock / country crossover in the 90s and beyond, where you go now for "new" bands playing classic rock type tunes. "modern rock" post-grunge was a different thing. classic rock RADIO doesn't play new country but the audience for classic rock had more options after the crossover got going. I don't think the classic rock radio format was sensitive to this at all though.

I mean in the logic of commercial radio, Maggot Brain was not a hit for this audience the first time around. Why would it suddenly become a hit now?
xp

Prince is a virtuoso lead guitarist who plays all his own instruments, is influenced by Hendrix and Zeppelin and Todd Rundgren, makes 'great albums'. He doesn't seem that diametrically opposed to me at all, no more than a lot of 80s music that gets played on classic rock stations. A lot of Funkadelic doesn't seem that much weirder than Hendrix to me but you're right that it wasn't really hit material.

Jack FM stations do integrate Motown along with classic rock and more recent pop stuff.

Playlist excerpt from Ottawa's JACK station today:

1:17 pm Gemini Dream The Moody Blues
BUY
1:14 pm Oh Girl Chi-Lites
BUY
1:11 pm You Can't Hurry Love Diana Ross & The Supremes
BUY
1:08 pm Hey You Bachman-Turner Overdrive
BUY
1:04 pm Unwell Matchbox Twenty
BUY
1:00 pm 50 Ways to Leave Your Lover Paul Simon
BUY
12:56 pm Star Baby The Guess Who
BUY
12:52 pm Just a Gigolo / I Ain't Got Nobody David Lee Roth
BUY

Zeppelin and Todd Rundgren

really really doubt this - at the time he was making hits anyway - especially the latter. Prince claimed he never listened to the Beatles until Around the World in A Day, Purple Rain was an attempt to write a Bob Seger ballad (something he professed to "not understand") etc.

Didn't he actually run "Purple Rain" by the Journey guys to ensure that it wasn't too close to "Faithfully"? Am I misremembering?

A little further back:

12:47 pm The Tracks of My Tears Johnny Rivers
BUY
12:44 pm Echo Beach Martha And The Muffins
BUY
12:41 pm If You Don't Know Me By Now Harold & The Blue Notes Melvin
BUY
12:37 pm Our House Madness
BUY
12:35 pm Jingle Jangle Archies
BUY
12:31 pm Celebrate Three Dog Night
BUY
12:29 pm Little Bit O'Soul The Music Explosion
BUY
12:22 pm Harvest Moon Neil Young
BUY
12:19 pm Fire Arthur Brown

But yeah, that Zeppelin/Rundgren thing is based on stuff I read. Maybe I'm wrong there.

Prince is a virtuoso lead guitarist who plays all his own instruments

what classic rock acts are just one dude playing all the instruments?

You really think people who consume Hendrix and early Zep as staples would have that much of an obstacle with Maggot Brain or Prince's soloing?

absolutely. and they do!

― joe schmoladoo from 7-11 (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, August 12, 2013 2:33 PM (22 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

In Cleveland, at least, the classic rock audience can hang with Eddie Hazel:

From 1976 to 1995, disc jockey Bill "B.L.F. Bash" Freeman started a tradition of playing the original full version of [Maggot Brain] on 100.7 WMMS/Cleveland every Sunday morning at 1:30 (around "last call"). The tradition picked up in 1987 is still carried on to this day, by Mr. Classic host of "The Saturday Night Live House Party" featured on 98.5 WNCX/Cleveland at 11:50pm.

WMMS was, of course, the famed progressive FM/AOR station; WNCX is pure classic rock.

Ha, Rundgren (whom I never hear either)! But no, that's not the norm. My point was more that it's all live musicianship as opposed to sequenced electronic stuff.

xpost to crut

what classic rock acts are just one dude playing all the instruments?

Boston

what classic rock acts are just one dude playing all the instruments?

Gary Wright?

Didn't think that was the case with Boston?

Prince is a virtuoso lead guitarist who plays all his own instruments, is influenced by Hendrix and Zeppelin and Todd Rundgren, makes 'great albums'. He doesn't seem that diametrically opposed to me at all, no more than a lot of 80s music that gets played on classic rock stations. A lot of Funkadelic doesn't seem that much weirder than Hendrix to me but you're right that it wasn't really hit material.

Jack FM stations do integrate Motown along with classic rock and more recent pop stuff.

Again, you seem to be making a musicological connection, but that's not how radio formats work. Prince just doesn't sound anything like the stuff they play on classic rock radio! His music sounds very '80s, polished, pop. It sounds like dance music with drum machines, and it's very flamboyant and even effeminate.

Jack is a totally different format than classic rock isn't it?

Didn't think that was the case with Boston?

yeah, I guess it was just home recorded. Scholtz didn't sing obv and he didn't play drums either.

It is a totally different format (that might be taking over from CR). I'm just saying that provides evidence that these 'opposed' things can coexist on a mainstream radio format.

Prince just doesn't sound anything like the stuff they play on classic rock radio! His music sounds very '80s, polished, pop.

But I think this is also true of a lot of 80s things that DO get played on classic rock stations (Loverboy, 80s Springsteen, 80s Henley, even some 80s Rush and Yes and Genesis and Bowie)!

To be honest I haven't actually heard any classic rock radio in probably 20 years. I guess I just assume that it's still stuff like this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guitar_Rock_(Time-Life_Music)

It is a totally different format (that might be taking over from CR). I'm just saying that provides evidence that these 'opposed' things can coexist on a mainstream radio format.

yeah, for a different demographic.

I'd like to imagine that stations would play "Bambi" if listeners didn't know it was Prince.

Ultimately, we might be saying the same thing. My original point was that the distinction between 'rock' and 'R&B' categories, and the way that playlists were developed, had more to do with social factors than musical ones. I think that's the same thing you're saying.

xposts to wk

xp it's called "adult hits"

i dont see why classic rock listeners couldn't enjoy Purple Rain or Super Stupid.
RHCP fans dig em and eventually they will be the classic rock listeners by now or soon enough.
If classic rock doesnt let in alt rock then you will get new oldies alt rock stations.

The modern rock format is not too far from that already.

otm, our Modern Rock station hasn't updated its playlist since 1999 - RHCP, STP, Bush, Green Day and Pearl Jam 24/7.

yeah that's how radio formats work right? each generation gets frozen in time with the hits from when they were 18 and that becomes a new nostalgia format.

lol - last played according to their website:

Smooth Criminal - Alien Ant Farm
Comedown - Bush
Why Go - Pearl Jam

Yeah, the point of a format like classic rock is not to be expansive - it's to be reductive, to simplify, to reduce options, to make things easier for everyone. Short of boring their audience to death, there's no drawback to sticking close to the formula.

I do think AOR programmers of 1975 would be astonished that the basic format they established would still be viable in 2013 and that teenagers would still be listening to Led Zeppelin. I have to believe they wouldn't have expected their format to last beyond about five years.

yeah that's how radio formats work right? each generation gets frozen in time with the hits from when they were 18 and that becomes a new nostalgia format.

lord help you when it reaches the nu metal era

Yeah, the point of a format like classic rock is not to be expansive - it's to be reductive, to simplify, to reduce options, to make things easier for everyone. Short of boring their audience to death, there's no drawback to sticking close to the formula.

But ironically these stations are often more interesting and diverse than a contemporary top 40 format because their narrow playlist of chart hits is at least drawn from a 20 year period rather than just this week.

not if its always the same songs surely?

this sounds like my idea of hell
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adult_contemporary

In NZ, the likes of Radio Hauraki (offshore pirate station, operated illegally '66-70, continues ever since), taglines like "Classic rock that rocks", "New Zealand's real rock station", "Just great rock", "We Endorse This Music", etc, have def. had their playlists swamped with alt stuff - I think NZ & especially Australia had a much longer zombie afterlife for grunge/post-grunge, though.

This morning:

08:48		The One I Love	R.e.m.
08:37		Notion	Kings Of Leon
08:33		Song 2	Blur
08:17		Walk	Foo Fighters
08:07		My God Is The Sun	Queens Of The Stone Age
08:01		Hunger Strike	Temple Of The Dog
07:49		I Got A Girl	Tripping Daisy
07:32		I Alone	Live
07:19		Long Way To Go	Andrew Stockdale
07:08		Back In Black	Ac/dc
07:03		Are You In?	Incubus
06:50		Are You Gonna Go My Way	Lenny Kravitz
06:41		Psycho Killer	Talking Heads
06:33		In The End	Linkin Park
06:21		It's Alright, It's Ok	Primal Scream
06:09		Mr Brownstone	Guns 'n' Roses
06:03		The Man Who Sold The World	Nirvana
05:52		Black Dog	Led Zeppelin
05:47		Far Behind	Candle Box
05:41		Late Night	Foals
05:37		Saints Of Los Angeles	Motley Crue
05:32		Everlong	Foo Fighters
05:29		This Kids Not Alright	Awolnation

Yesterday evening:

17:51		60 Miles An Hour	New Order
17:45		Late Night	Foals
17:41		My Mind's Sedate	Shihad
17:37		Ashes To Ashes	Faith No More
17:27		Times Like These	Foo Fighters
17:24		K	The Tutts
17:19		I Will Follow	U2
17:16		Halfway There	Soundgarden
17:11		Thunderstruck	Ac/dc
17:05		Aeroplane	Red Hot Chili Peppers
17:01		It's Been Awhile	Staind
16:48		Always On The Run	Lenny Kravitz
16:44		Right Here Right Now	Fatboy Slim
16:40		Use Somebody	Kings Of Leon
16:35		Cult Of Personality	Living Colour
16:24		Smells Like Teen Spirit	Nirvana
16:20		Mind Mischief	Tame Impala
16:16		The Fixer	Pearl Jam
16:13		Gel	Collective Soul
16:10		Feeling Good	The Sheepdogs
16:05		Hardest Button To Button	White Stripes
16:02		It's So Easy	Guns N' Roses
15:53		It Starts And Ends With You	Suede
15:49		Nearly Lost You	Screaming Trees

the past 3 hours on WSRV:

Rolling Stones - Shattered
Dire Straits - Walk of Life
Joan Jett & the Blackhearts - I Love Rock N' Roll
Def Leppard - Love Bites
Van Morrison - Moondance
Guns N' Roses - Knockin' on Heaven's Door
Bruce Hornsby & the Range - The Valley Road
AC/DC - For Those About to Rock (We Salute You)
Peter Frampton - Baby, I Love Your Way
Great White - Once Bitten Twice Shy
Led Zeppelin - The Ocean
The Police - Every Breath You Take
Van Halen - Dance the Night Away
Tom Petty - Runnin' Down a Dream
Lynyrd Skynyrd - Whiskey Rock-A-Roller
Lynyrd Skynyrd - The Ballad of Curtis Loew
Lynyrd Skynyrd - Call Me the Breeze
Jon Bon Jovi - Blaze of Glory
Simple Minds - Don't You (Forget About Me)
Toto - Hold the Line
Bob Seger - Against the Wind
U2 - Where the Streets Have No Name
Rolling Stones - Paint It Black
Aerosmith - Love in an Elevator
Guess Who - American Woman
Queen & David Bowie - Under Pressure
Pearl Jam - Alive
Steve Miller - The Joker
The Fixx - One Thing Leads to Another
Drivin' & Cryin' - Straight to Hell
Led Zeppelin - Dazed and Confused

post grunge didnt really happen here in the uk. britpop/nu-metal were the fads that took its place. Britpop is still looming round like the post grunge acts are in the us

Adult contemporary is actually what I imagined a lot of UK radio to be. It's what you're typically subjected to in a lot of offices and retail workplaces and, yep, it's probably my least favourite radio format.

I don't think I ever hear those indie bands on AC stations.

classic rock in america is in terms of radio playlists and its development reflects a series of negative definitions, not disco not new wave not rap etc

this seems overly reductive, and, relative to the UK's hunger for retro-rock nostalgia, incorrect. "classic rock" in america is a not-quite ossified, weirdly expandable oldies format. it's basically just 70s AOR...plus whatever seems to fit in with that. so zepplin, stones & aerosmith; plus 80s stuff like journey, van halen & aerosmith; plus 90s stuff like pearl jam, bush & aerosmith; plus whatever's comparable in the present moment. i don't think classic rock is more negatively defined than most other radio formats, tbh.

jesus my minds blown by the Adult Contemporary spin offs of spin offs
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_adult_contemporary#Hot_adult_contemporary
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soft_adult_contemporary#Soft_adult_contemporary
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_adult_contemporary
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhythmic_adult_contemporary

im going down a neverending rabbithole now
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adult_CHR

Termed "the acoustic equivalent to Prozac",[38] soft AC, a more adult-oriented version of AC, was born in the late 1970s and grew in the early 1980s. WEEI-FM in Boston was the first station to use the term "soft rock", with ad slogans such as, "Fleetwood Mac ... without the yack" and "Joni ... without the baloney".

lol wtf

a couple of d/n in there for anyone who wants them

but.. the baloney is the best part!

Modern adult contemporary can be a variation of hot AC, and includes modern rock titles in its presentation. In 1997, Mike Marino of KMXB in Las Vegas described the format as reaching "an audience that has outgrown the edgier hip-hop or alternative music but hasn't gotten old and sappy enough for the soft ACs." The format's artists included Alanis Morissette, Counting Crows, Gin Blossoms, Bon Jovi, Train, No Doubt, The Script,[48] The Cranberries,[49] Lifehouse,[50]Sarah McLachlan, Jewel and Sheryl Crow.

Unlike modern rock, which went after 18-34 men, this format appealed to women.

I wondered what radio was aimed at women

Adult Top 40 URGH

Most weeks at number one

25 weeks

"Smooth" — Santana featuring Rob Thomas (1999-2000)

23 weeks

"Wherever You Will Go" — The Calling (2001-2002)

18 weeks

"Unwell" — Matchbox Twenty (2003)
"Photograph" — Nickelback (2005-2006)

17 weeks

"Iris" — Goo Goo Dolls (1998)

16 weeks

"Complicated" — Avril Lavigne (2002)

15 weeks

"Don't Speak" — No Doubt (1996-1997)
"How to Save a Life" — The Fray (2006-2007)

14 weeks

"Torn" — Natalie Imbruglia (1998)
"Everything You Want" — Vertical Horizon (2000)
"Drops of Jupiter (Tell Me)" — Train (2001)

Artists with most number-one singles

9 - Pink
8 - Maroon 5
7 - Katy Perry,
5 - Nickelback
4 - Kelly Clarkson, Daughtry, Train, Matchbox Twenty
3 - Goo Goo Dolls, Adele

maybe UK radio isn't as bad as I thought!

man it's a hot one

if anyone is interested in cable rock radio in the UK these are the 2 best known ones
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planet_Rock_(radio_station)
and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerrang_Radio (you wont hear any metal on it just like you dont read it in the mag

The station's format mixes modern & classic rock with speech programmes targeted at young people and an adult rock audience. The station is connected with the Kerrang! print magazine in name, ownership and style, although the radio station has a more mainstream adult rock output than the magazine, featuring more indie and alternative rock.

Basically its more like xfm but with more emo and whatever gets played on america's modern rock radio