TS: XTC's Black Sea vs. English Settlement

Black Sea. Still never fails to exhilarate and is also one of my all time favorite crunchy guitar records. The albums that preceded it were too squirrelly and right after it they swerved away from that stinging crunch.

Eng Sett has an absolutely killer single lp in it but yeah side 3 ewww.

gonna edit them both into a single LP, for the fuck of it, and also to further demonstrate my preference for ES:

SIDE A

runaways
ball & chain
senses working overtime
jason & the argonauts
no thugs in our house
no language in our lungs

SIDE B

towers of london
fly on the wall
leisure
english roundabout
snowman
travels in nihilon

This thread has just set me off on a massive XTC binge... thanks ILX! (and I mean that with absolutely zero sarcasm, of course)

A lot of XTC songs feel '3D' to me, like they construct these detailed but claustrophobic/hermetically sealed worlds/landscapes. If you are a bedridden child you must take refuge in fantasy and imagination to a large extent, so it must be an odd combination of freedom, like you can create worlds that you have total control over, but also restriction.

Possibly related to that thought, Andy once said that he and Colin determined that Andy was in indoor person who wrote outdoor songs, and Colin was an outdoor person who wrote indoor songs.

English Settlement, side 2 and a half..

1. Blame The Weather (3:37) Written-By – C. Moulding*
2. Tissue Tigers (The Arguers) (3:55) Written-By – A. Partridge*
3. Heaven Is Paved With Broken Glass (5:07) Written-By – Partridge*
4. Punch And Judy (2:44) Written-By – Partridge*
5. Looking For Footprints (3:28) Written-By – Partridge*

this is really close, voting english settlement i guess

like this basically boils down to '60 minutes of XTC at their peak or 40 minutes of XTC at their peak'

I'm with Mark here, English Settlement would be maybe their greatest album (or at least, it would stand up next to Skylarking) had they replaced some of the dead spots on Side 3 with those excellent B-sides, at least "Tissue Tigers" and "The World is Full of Angry Young Men"

I don't like the sequencing of "English Settlement"...

I'm sure I've opined on another XTC thread, but I've only ever owned the American English Settlement and I think the sequencing of that is excellent. That means I'm not overly familiar with "Leisure" or "Knuckle Down" on the seemingly maligned side 3. I have no problems with "Melt The Guns" and "Africa," love them both.

I thought 'Looking For Footprints' was an earlier track, it is descended from a song called Sleepyheads which, I'm guessing, is from Drums & Wires or earlier.

I'm torn on this. Just last week I rediscovered Black Sea and decided it's their most consistently great album - every track is a killer. But English Settlement is both a sentimental favorite and, for reasons that a lot of people have said above, maybe their single best album - it has the journey, the high points, the kind of perfect moment of getting a bit mature and realizing that it's happening, as you hear on songs like "All of a Sudden." I'm surprised nobody's mentioned that song yet - it's a great distillation of realizing you've grown up now, this is it, this is where you are, so what's next? I love that the album doesn't have a "concept." A bunch of English boys basically think about going to Africa and never actually get there. There are no grand schemes, just small realizations. And "Senses Working Overtime" - still one of the all-time greats.

"Knuckle Down" is one of their weakest but best-placed songs. It's nothing special but you need a breather right around there, and the chorus sticks in my head for that reason. "Fly on the Wall" is the opposite - it's a great song but I always skip it.

I seem to remember Dave Gregory saying that he thought the album needed more production, a bit more to the arrangements. It is pretty stripped-down and there's room to do more, and maybe if they'd taken it farther it would have more of that patina of "greatness," but I'm glad they didn't. For one thing I just love the album as it is, and for another, every album that came after it was a bit of a loud mess in one way or another. I don't think they ever truly got the hang of using lots of instruments.

Xpost it's the other way around, LFF was recorded for go2

I don't think they ever truly got the hang of using lots of instruments.

don't really love either of these albums all the way through tbh

Apple Venus was the one with the "realistic" synth orchestra right? That was gross.

Except for the fact that they were played by a real orchestra (and fairly amazing), yes.

Damn I have a really distinct memory of it sounding sampled. Maybe they were just miked weird. Now I feel guilty for holding it against them all thus time!

Maybe you heard "Demo Venus" or whatever it was called

The Big Express and Oranges & Lemons may sound overloaded with sound at first, but it all makes sense after a while.

Probably my two favorite XTC records. Skylarking is great too, especially the version with the perfect Mermaid Smiled rather than the over-obvious Dear God. Anyway, Black Sea wins.

I'm really split on Apple Venus, half of that is like their best album ever, but I really dislike the middle section of the album (outside of "Greenman" which is one of my top 5 XTCtunes)

My three favourites are Black Sea, Skylarking and Nonsuch... I get a lot out of every XTC album, but those three are kinda like the three that I would rescue from the fire/take to the desert island etc.

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

REJOICE! \o/

Right on. It's frustrating, because Settlement without the filler (which is what "Melt the Guns" feels like) would easily be Black Sea's equal, or at the very least, a pastoral angle on Black Sea's rawk.

But after Black Sea, they never really rocked again. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but the gripping dynamic of this particular unit of particularly agitated musicians was gone forever.

Everyone wins!

Sorry I missed this one, but I'd go with Black Sea, if only as it's a bit more clangy.

But after Black Sea, they never really rocked again.

I'd argue that the solo on Books Are Burning is one of the great classic rock solos, but maybe.

But after Black Sea, they never really rocked again.

Nonsense...."No Thugs in Our House" (English Settlement), "Wake Up" (Big Express), "Across This Anthead" (Oranges & Lemons)

AntHEAP

I love "Wake Up," but those other two (along with everything on Oranges & Lemons) always fell flat for me.

Really? "No Thugs.."? I love that goddamn song.

yeah me too tbh

I wouldn't describe 'Across This Antheap' as "rocking", either.

"Earn Enough for Us" too.

Plus the Dukes, obv

you guys are suggesting some weird pretty non-rock-y stuff imho. I don't think Tarfumes is entirely wrong that they ditched the aesthetic of Black Sea for the most part - the slashing guitars, the stuttering rhythms, the frenetic energy, etc. they didn't really go there again. some of the stuff on Big Express maybe comes closest.

Black Sea is the way that it is because that particular line-up of the band (Partridge/Gregory/Moulding/Chambers) had such an undeniable chemistry as a unit and were playing together a lot as a live band, so you get an energy and urgency on Black Sea that they couldn't replicate on their post-Settlement studio records, no matter how good the drummers they used on those recordings were/are. That, and Partridge seemed to want to move away from that particular approach to recording/style of music on the records starting with Settlement.

yup to all that

only "No Thugs" comes close to rocking out as hard - "Wake Up" feels a little more stitched and calculated than anything on Black Sea. obviously not really a knock on later XTC but they definitely lost the "live" sound pretty suddenly afterwards.

Yeah, definitely agree regarding 'Wake Up'... there's a rigidity in the way that the track has been recorded that contrasts with the live band feel on Black Sea. Not to knock the track, because I like it a lot, but you can definitely tell it was a studio creation rather than the result of a band playing together.

I wouldn't describe 'Across This Antheap' as "rocking", either.

Compared to, say, anything on albums including and after Nonesuch it does.

I mean, it ain't Motorhead, but there's a bit of edge there.

I remember being disappointed the first time I heard Wasp Star because it seemed like they were trying to do a stripped down, live band feel again, only with some kinda stodgy, un-rocking songs.

Had Dave Gregory split by that point?

I pretty much abandoned ship after Nonesuch.

Yeah, I think he left when they were partway through preparing Apple Venus vol 1, he'd already done some arrangements for it, and didn't contribute at all to Wasp Star IIRC. Possibly why it sounds relatively sloppy by XTC standards.

Compared to, say, anything on albums including and after Nonesuch it does.

― Alex in NYC, Tuesday, August 27, 2013 10:08 PM (13 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I'd agree with that, but we're not comparing it with what came after Nonsuch!

sloppy?! not really a term I associate with this band. like, ever.

otoh "No Language in Our Lungs"? Best XTC song ever.

Could live without all of Side 3 from "English Settlement" tbh, although "Knuckle Down" is OK I suppose. "Down in the Cockpit" can go too.

"Language" and "Towers" are my two favorite tracks on the album! but then I usually skip fgti's favorite. another no consensus band

i also have always loved "burning with optimism's flames"

yeah was always surprised that one wasn't a single as well

I remember being quite unimpressed with the second disc of English Settlement whereas Black Sea has good songs all the way through

as Tom mentions it's really Side C that's the problem, I mean Side D is as great as the rest, though I know some people get annoyed with "Down in the Cockpit"

what's frustrating about that is they had some really good B-sides/non-album singles floating around at this time, "Tissue Tigers" especially. maybe "Punch and Judy" and "Blame the Weather" could've made it as well

settlement bums me out. it has the highs of the best xtc records and the most opportunities for the band to stretch out to 5 minute pseudo-jams, but for me has too many ultra corny songs and sounds, similar to mummer and big express and everything post dukes.

i know i'm an outlier in that i think leisure is great - including the atonal sax part illustrating the headsplitting boredom causing mental illness (this seems to be a metaphor for partridge's impending desire to retire but it will make him crazy) and the lazybones tin pan alley interpolation at the end. but i usually skip runaways, guns, africa, knuckle down, and cockpit. runaways in particular bothers me: the don't crys just make me wince, the song is trying to be sad or something and i just don't buy the emotion in it, and more importantly, the theme of the song is just so conservative and mother knows best, stay at home, don't rebel, that's too worrisome. it seems to declare this entire album's project is to reject xtc's punk's rebellious spirit and connect with the past.

one thing settlement has going for it... it seems to encompass all the seasons. you can put it on in spring, summer, winter, fall. i think i'd like it more if they included some of the b-sides as album tracks, particularly over rusty water, heaven is paved with broken glass, punch and judy, and tissue tigers. some more spikiness would do the album well, i think.

never got that impression from "Runaways" myself, it's very clear that the subject is running away from a very abusive situation

A "no consensus band" is right. I dig Leisure, too, fwiw.

fwiw I dig a lot of XTC's "annoying" songs but not that one for some reason. I'll even defend "Wounded Horse"