Best Music Writing 2012

(why do I keep responding to this)

The fundamental difference is whether you see giving to a Kickstarter as a donation/cosign or a monetary transaction. I see it as the former. Most people, Kickstarter included, see it as the latter.

but it's nice to see people making fun of any position that isn't the hard-line, that's cool, you keep on doing that

katherine, that is one of the pitfalls of kickstarter. People who have projects who think of it as strangers on the internet giving them money solely because they are a worthwhile person and mean well are deluding themselves. Unless the project is specifically framed as "give me money, I am a worthwhile person with good intentions." But, kickstarter's structure is framed like a monetary transaction. It requires you to give rewards to backers.

Looking at the kickstarter page, all the rewards are objects with a monetary value!

hence the "Kickstarter included" part -- even though a great deal of their branding frames it as the former. some donors respond to that.

the donations were solicited to produce a thing, and for their contributions they would get things. There isn't any charitable intent in the pitch.

I totally get and empathise with all the points re: fucking up, panic and shame. I have probably been there.

I have never been there with 17k of other people's money (and yes, a promise of something exciting for people's careers) though! Sure, I don't reply to many emails and feel guilty but I'd sure hope that my obligation to those people would outweigh my own feelings before a YEAR was up. Before the vice outrage machine would get started. I don't cosign the vice model but if that piece hadn't run then...what?

I don't want to do the "burn the witch" outrage thing - as I say I get why these things happen. I just don't get the reverse outrage of people defending her. What she did sucks. The crux of the matter isn't even the money, it's the total lack of communication and the fact that only bringing out the nastiest guns galvanised that into happening.

The crux of the matter isn't even the money, it's the total lack of communication

Definitely. That's another one of the "worst practices" I referred to upthread.

the donations were solicited to produce a thing, and for their contributions they would get things. There isn't any charitable intent in the pitch.

― not some dude poking a Line 6 pedal with his dick (sarahell), Friday, August 23, 2013 5:17 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i donated for a tote bag. that's like a pbs thing.

PBS and other non-profits, when they are soliciting donations and offering things in return, have to specify the value of the thing(s) you are getting, and whether your donation is entirely a donation (i.e. tax-deductible).

Yes, I have paid $30 for a restaurant meal. This would be like if you paid a restaurant $30 and didn't get any food.

― not some dude poking a Line 6 pedal with his dick (sarahell), Friday, August 23, 2013 4:54 PM (35 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

You know how much money you could save if you cooked your food at home though?

*promises self not to make a subway joke, can't speak for the whole room*

You know how much money you could save if you cooked your food at home though?

― i'm walter white btw (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, August 23, 2013 5:31 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

$94k and bennies?

thanks Whiney for following through on autographing my copy of Hipster Puppies

So, to follow the analogy, the people who are annoyed that the book isn't happening should have written their own?

everyday I write the book

well, this is as good a time as any. so for the past 2 years now I have been working on a book compiling what I consider to be classic threads and posts from ILX. It is finally finished, and is being published by lulu.com. You can order copies directly from the site, or email me and I can send you one.

hey guys I just wrote the best music writing of 2012

suck it, internet

Thing is, she probably blew a large portion of the dough. Doesn't make her a bad person. It would be hard to be disciplined. That's why I've got too much credit card debt. If you're sitting with that money, coming up a little short or car needs repair, I'm sure it's hard not to say oh I'll just borrow out of the book fund & pay it back later... It all happens so gradually, doesn't mean anyone didn't have good intentions or is a grifter

It was so much simpler back in the day where you would just borrow money from your mom or put everything on a credit card. Very few ppl are gonna be sympathetic to the credit card company if you don't pay it back.

This is how the money was supposed to be spent:

This Kickstarter campaign will raise money to pay for the production of our 2012 book, including payments for reprint rights from writers, a small editorial board stipend, graphic design services, and administrative services for licensing and project management. It's hard to believe but this much alone is around $20k!

Anything above this amount will cover printing costs, administrative and start up costs.

i don't think its hard to believe at all. 20 thousand sounds cheap for a job like that. and getting it to stores and all the rest of it...yeesh.

Someone should send this thread to Da Capo and let them know how much of a fuss the BMW series has raised in an insular corner of the internet.

It's hard to believe but this much alone is around $20k!

I agree!

xp - but the initial budget wasn't including printing costs and putting it in stores.

It sounds like the original budget of $15k was just to produce what would result in a digital copy.

Apologies for the length. This whole debate is quite interesting. Especially input from folks that didn't put any money in...

You can certainly categorize perception based on what terms people use: "donor" vs. "backer". It reflect perception about the obligations. Kickstarter itself uses the term "backer", but Daphne used the term "donor" in the Poynter article.

Also interesting but mostly unknown is that there was a second fundraising event that pulled in another $4500. (I do note that WePay calls them donors and there is no mention of "rewards"). https://www.wepay.com/donations/181744 Are the WePay donors getting refunds too? Can't tell. Maybe they are just SOL.

So, the real total $ amount here between Kickstarter and WePay is $21,912. That is inarguably a good chunk of change.

Ultimately, we can't forget some key facts:
1. To my knowledge, NONE of rewards were delivered - not the totebags or the t-shirts and not even the rewards where a professional writer line-edits your stuff or the life-coaching or whatever. Those rewards weren't blocked by the creation of the book, so it's revealing if they weren't delivered either. It looks like a failure to deliver anything.
2. There was only 1 update sent to backers within 30 days after the funding and then radio silence for 18 months. Not acceptable.
3. Numerous folks (myself included) tried to contact for information and were ignored. You could clearly see on the Kickstarter site that Daphne was logging in and backing other peoples projects but was ignoring your emails. Again, not acceptable.
4. There has been zero transparency as to where the money went. So, yeah, people will speculate...
5. It shouldn't have taken the Vice article to get some action. Not acceptable.

In the absence of any transparency, I'm baffled by the folks saying "keep the money". I backed in the $100+ range. I want to know where my money went. (I'm not taking a stance yea/nay on my refund until she actually contacts me personally.)

Something like Cory Doctorow's book financials would go a long way here: http://craphound.com/walh/2010/10/monthly-financials

I agree that Daphne has stated that she will refund backer money. She also stated that she would deliver all those things from the Kickstarter campaign. Maybe the refunds will be promised but also never be delivered.

The jury is still out until the refunds start flowing and are actually all completed.

And honestly, 3 years is an amazingly long time to wait for a refund (the rate looks like <$500 in refunds per month). Add in the time since the project was funded that means it could possibly be 4.5 years total before I would see my money returned. And without interest, I might add. It's like making a 5-year interest-free loan...

Daphne can go a long way to repairing her credibility by actually delivering the refunds and delivering regular updates on that process through official Kickstarter updates. Saying that further communication should be done through non-Kickstarter channels is disappointing.

I'll believe in the refunds when I see it happen. Hate to be a skeptic, but 18 months of radio silence and ignoring emails doesn't build confidence.

I would love to see the BMW book series continue. Maybe it needs a real publisher backing it. (Wonder if they talked to McSweeney's?) But I'll think twice before throwing more money at Daphne/Feedback Press without better transparency and accountability.

"It sounds like the original budget of $15k was just to produce what would result in a digital copy."

ah, okay. that sounds more reasonable.

"But I'll think twice before throwing more money at Daphne/Feedback Press without better transparency and accountability."

i can't imagine that she would try this again. or at least ask for money from the public if she does it again.

Wow @ all of this, I just re found this thread

lol your endless quest for answers finally comes to a close

I was thinking that, yeah

I wonder if the initial Kickstarter was arbitrarily set low to increase the chance of making the goal.

just thought i'd post a little update: i sent the google doc with all the names of the people wishing to opt-out of the kickstarter refund to the feedback press email. haven't had any response thus far, but i don't think i'm going to get one frankly. i imagine the inbox is inundated with people wanting their money back or answers as to why feedback press never delivered. the list is in her hands now anyway, hopefully it makes the process at least a bit easier.

shitlords never worry

(Now That's) The Shitlords

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFIhxBAQh68

It's October now and no sign of the promised list of writing that was supposed to arrive in the first week of September

I intend to publish the list of the Best Music Writing as selected by the book's incredible, world-class professional editorial board. This in and of itself is a great
achievement and I hope you will take the time to enjoy the pieces mentioned on the list. This will arrive to you via email in the first week of September, after the dust has cleared from this announcement. I hope to separate the good work of those editors from my failure with the publishing house.

I guess you could try emailing her at wemakefeedback at gmail dot com

Not that she's been quick to respond to anyone in the past

poor thing, still being victimized by people that gave her a bunch of money for free

u are all the best music writers in my book http://i44.tinypic.com/20kdg8o.png

have a blessed day

I emailed her and she has not responded. I guess she'll publish the list after Vice does a follow-up

An email response!:

Thanks for you email. I have not, as of yet. I will shortly.

All best,
Daphne

I wonder how she defines "shortly"? Can publishing the list of the Best Music Writing as selected by the book's incredible, world-class professional editorial board be that hard.

I don't have a personal stake in this, but jeez...

well guess we better polish our pitchforks

as someone who has on occasion pursued projects that never reach completion i'm pretty cool with daphne taking her time on this or even not following through at all

Gotta say that I don't care for the list as much as I get my $50 back but Brad, of those projects, how many of those were crowdfunded and had you be accountable to more than just, say, an editor?

I don't have a personal stake in this

direct tweet didn't work, so may as well email

― curmudgeon, Thursday, April 25, 2013 11:57 AM (6 months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

No response so far

― curmudgeon, Friday, April 26, 2013 8:00 AM (6 months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Still nothing

― curmudgeon, Saturday, April 27, 2013 7:47 AM (6 months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

none were crowdfunded but i've been accountable to more ppl than an editor! at this point the $50 i contributed practically doesn't even exist in mind anymore. it was probably put toward good use in this project that didn't pan out. whatever