Play Me Some Simpin, Mane: Drake - Nothing Was the Same

I definitely think you listened to the album and wrote honestly about it. My point is that your review pretty much summed up most of the objections to Drake from non-REAL HIPHOP people. I've shared a few of them myself. I just don't think those points are very convincing anymore.

...to who?

To me?

non-real hip hop people

Longneck, the realest hip-hop people there is.

Lol. I'll be dat.

now that's a phrase I haven't heard in a long time. A long time.

But your reality, how do we know of it?

Longneck's point is legit though; as I've said earlier, rappers in the game right now generally tend to like and respect Drake. Just look at the OVO Fest lineups he assembles every year. Those who make a point out of objecting to him (Common, DMX) come off as dinosaurs idolizing the good old days of a now-antiquated "REAL HIPHOP".

Lol I just had a discussion with someone who said Drake couldn't possibly make a classic album because he addresses girls in his songs. That ain't REAL hip hop.

"He knows he's a douche" is the WORST defence both in art and irl.

yep such an easy cop out

also this idea that drake is so self-aware of his douchiness?

Still, one of the things that people find both equally engrossing and just plain gross about his music is how he reinterprets the stories of others, dragging them into his own narrative without their consent. I ask how women react to him when he mentions them. "They love it. I'll get girls that hit me up like, 'Oh, that's how you feel?' Whatever. They love it. They hang up the phone and be like, 'Ah, I'm hyped!" When I compare this practice to Cam'ron's old tactic of repurposing voicemails from angry ex-lovers as skits on his albums, Drake cuts me off. "That's different. That's malicious. I never do that to girls. Every girl, there's some heartwarming sentiment there, even if it's talking about how we didn't work out. It maybe jogs their memory. It's a good thing. My phone starts blowing up every time an album comes out. Tomorrow will be one of those heavy AT&T days for me, for sure."

They love him anyway! he's so blessed!

sick neg, bro

"whatever. they love it."

drake is obvi a douche

i do think that he has a pretty unique sound at this point. synthesis is ok ... its not like he sounds like kanye

also al not liking lollipop is crazy imo

the charitable reading would put that "whatever" as a placeholder for other things these women say to Drake on the phone rather than a comment on how he feels about what they're saying to him but it's still hilariously douchey that he would say "whatever" instead of "etcetera" or "and so on" in that scenario

considering that pretty much nobody itt is a REAL HIP HOP hardass who thinks the entire problem with Drake is that he sings or writes about girls or that he's "soft" maybe we can engage with what people itt are saying instead of just responding the (real and numerous) people outside ilx who dislike Drake simply on those terms?

My comment about how Drake knows he is a douche was meant to suggest that EVERYONE knows that Drake is a douche, yet it gets hurled at him as if it is some kind of revelatory gem of criticism every so often. So what if he mentions some girl he slept with or loved or whatever in a less than sympathetic way? Rappers tend to do that. And writers tend to use and reinterpret stuff others say for their own purposes all the time. So why do we turn our moralizers up to eleven every time Drake is involved? Because he is annoying? Hell yes he is annoying. He also sounds like a sheep, but somehow that doesn´t really matter too much in the grand scheme of things. He's still ahead of the pack in almost every imaginable way and he still - as deej says - has his own sound. It is perfectly fine to criticise his craft or his songwriting or even a perceived stiffness in his delivery. What bugs me is the condescending tone we - and I do think Ship's review is symptomatic here - tend to take on just about every time we write about this guy whenever we're not fawning over him, whether we are real-hip-hop dudes who think he is soft for rapping about girls or just snarky internet rap cynics. It's so polarized - in quite predictable ways. I'd love to read something fresh and illuminating about him soon.

You might start with putting those false binaries in the trash.

i'm condescending towards Drake because i think he's kind of a dullard.

As far as the "Drake is mean to women" criticism goes, the ILX double standard drives me bonkers. I'm pretty sure I said the exact same thing in the Take Care thread a couple years back (and got called a sock for it) but let me again call attention to how much this board seems to adore Terius, who is a million times more of a man-child than Aubrey is when it comes to women.

I get that the 'they love it' thing is offputting... 2 potential explanations. One way to see it is him being obnoxious to and dismissive of his exes... and I guess I'm more of the "let him without sin cast the first stone" in that department. The second is that they actually do get along, which is also plausible. I mean, Drake seems like a clown, but a friendly one, and I really wouldn't put it past him to maintain friendly, teasing relationships with exes. Is it that unthinkable that a dude can look back amusedly at failed relationships?

Another criticism I hear: the 'vanity' issue. Obviously the guy is very pleased with the success he's had and basks in it. Drinking to accomplishments, clinking gold bars together, yada yada. I find that fun to watch, even though it's a little perverse. Isn't perverse glee, like, at least half the appeal of rap anyways? Again, I see a double standard in how other rappers get to be gleeful idiots as long as they code somewhat traditionally. Drake is obnoxious and smug, sure, but, like... isn't that part of the game?

terius and drake aren't really comparable. terius is an incredible songwriter. some of our fav terius songs are written for other people. the more terius' own persona seemed like a 'part' of his work, the worse he seemed to get. [thus the argument that 1977 is a pretty weak dream album]

drake can either play the heel, or he can be a relateable everyman. but you can't defend him like he's rick ross one minute, then talk about how relateable he is

But I think that's the interesting thing about Drake - he plays the heel and the best friend on the same album, like every album.

Fair point on the Terius distinction though

But it doesn't feel sincere, that's the whole problem with Drake.

Singers refract the songwriters' worst tendencies.

i don't think it's so much that anyone thinks Drake is especially reprehensible towards women in the larger context of rap, it's more than women/relationships take up a disproportionately large amount of his songs compared to other rappers, and it feels like the more he says on the topic, the less insightful or sympathetic he comes off.

"it's more than" = "it's more that"

Is "compared to other rappers" really a great metric?

Thinking more about the heel thing - I'm not exactly a WWE scholar, but as far as I understand, CM Punk is the most popular wrestler in ages because he essentially plays a relatable heel. I just don't think that "heel" and "relatable" are mutually exclusive.

most of my opposition to Drake stems from fundamentally disliking his voice; I rarely get to the point where I'm reacting to the content of his songs

he is also visually irritating

taking it out of a wrestling context, drake's ideas on relationships are shitty, so when i see people talk about how much they identify w/ him or how he's some progressive voice expanding people's idea of what it means to be a rapper i think it's total bullshit.

his shit is fun (if you like it musically) in a this is what not to do sense IMO.

longneck is def otm that he sounds like a sheep xp

Is "compared to other rappers" really a great metric?

it's not a metric, it's the reason people talk about his lyrics about women so much, he has so many more of them than other rappers. don't be dense.

my wife had Chelsea Lately on and I was watching with her; Drake was the guest and the first thing he did was pull out a gigantic Dyptique candle to "set the mood"; it was the corniest thing I have ever seen in my entire life and I've watched Childish Gambino videos

Aw he's just a lovable romantic

Ok lol

Corny is good. He owns it.

yolo y'all, yolo

drake's ideas on relationships are shitty, so when i see people talk about how much they identify w/ him or how he's some progressive voice expanding people's idea of what it means to be a rapper i think it's total bullshit.

this exactly

lmao @ longneck in here

i can't even make it through three consecutive songs from this thing because it is so fucking boring and longneck is telling me that because drake has made the same boring album three times i am obligated to give him credit.

i just switched from drake to mark kozalek because i was like, "who is less boring and less of an asshole than drake?" and you know what? mark kozalek is a boring asshole.

jesus christ.

So much otm in here while I've been gone. Van LS on insincerity, SD on the more he says the worse it seems, deej on how bullshit identification is here, djp on corniness, longneck on sounding like a sheep

I think deej touched on something important up there - I definitely think of Drake as a comedian rather than as a tragedian. He's self obsessed in an almost casual way, playing his image for laughs at least half the time. This of course ties in with what fennel cartwright has been trying to say about how relaxed and non-neurotic dude seems. Dude is the rap game Ross Geller, after all.

man i haven't even thought about his Schwimmer schwag in a minute

His real-world relaxed goofiness doesn't translate to record at all

- I definitely think of Drake as a comedian rather than as a tragedian. He's self obsessed in an almost casual way, playing his image for laughs at least half the time.

what Nobel Prize does he get for this?

He wins the princess and half the world to boot.

He'd explain to the princess why he's an asshole for dogfucking her best friend but it'd be okay because he's self-aware

Longneck would then appear, tell the princess why this is okay because it sells, then complain when others pointed this out.