the freestyle comparisons sold me on this album a lot more than the Mac ones. my cd just arrived in the mail: no typo!
― Euler, Wednesday, 2 October 2013 20:51 (ten years ago) link
top 40 radio in san jose was that kind of stuff when I was a kid. so I always just think of that sound as "80s music" and I heard this and thought "hey it's 1986"!
― wk, Wednesday, 2 October 2013 20:54 (ten years ago) link
I thought this thread said HAM
― you are kind, I am (waterface), Wednesday, 2 October 2013 21:59 (ten years ago) link
it does
― Luigi Nono, le petit robot (seandalai), Wednesday, 2 October 2013 22:01 (ten years ago) link
The freestyle comparisons are wrong but that's okay.
*convulses while making spaghetti sauce and dancing to Company B's "Fascinated"*
― the objections to Drake from non-REAL HIPHOP people (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 2 October 2013 22:01 (ten years ago) link
some of the drum sounds on this have a freestyle sonic quality to them but they're not rhythmically freestyle at all
― ᶓ͠סּᴥ͠סּᶔ ᶓͼ᷆ₓͼ᷇ᶔ (gr8080), Wednesday, 2 October 2013 22:07 (ten years ago) link
Company B's "Fascinated"*
Miami deep cut.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 2 October 2013 23:05 (ten years ago) link
idk i think some of the tempos and grooves are pretty reminiscent of freestyle (minus the latin percussion of course, just kick/snare patterns). or just uptempo '80s pop.
― festival culture (Jordan), Wednesday, 2 October 2013 23:17 (ten years ago) link
plus a lot of the little off beat syncopated percussion and synth parts. but yeah, it's more like the later, more mainstream pop that was freestyle influenced. I don't think it really sounds like that fleetwood mac record though. they do sound like FM in a general way but not like they took that particular album as a template to ripoff like some people are suggesting.
― wk, Wednesday, 2 October 2013 23:20 (ten years ago) link
I think it's a mark of how singular the rhythmic approach is that everyone hears it and immediately thinks of a patch of years in the mid-late 80s, but then struggles to come up with a really close blueprint!
Which is not to say that Haim have done something new, but rather that in this regard the retro-mining is very precise.
― Tim F, Wednesday, 2 October 2013 23:42 (ten years ago) link
Phil's "Don't Lose My Number"?
I get a Bangles vibe too (from the rhythms, though obv the vocals too to some extent) but when I go back and check none of the Bangles' tunes were riding quite the same vibe.
― Tim F, Wednesday, 2 October 2013 23:43 (ten years ago) link
yeah, bangles def
― wk, Wednesday, 2 October 2013 23:45 (ten years ago) link
they weren't quite rhythmically creative
― the objections to Drake from non-REAL HIPHOP people (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 2 October 2013 23:45 (ten years ago) link
The resemblance is a stretch but when "Edge" is playing I keep singing the Georgian song from this year's Eurovision over it.
― Luigi Nono, le petit robot (seandalai), Wednesday, 2 October 2013 23:48 (ten years ago) link
The too-brief lift-off section of "Honey & I" is amazing.
― Tim F, Thursday, 3 October 2013 05:40 (ten years ago) link
Watching their itunes festival concert and feeling good.
― Moka, Thursday, 3 October 2013 06:48 (ten years ago) link
My guess is that this isn't really down to the influence of any one band per se and more to do with them having watched a shitload of 80s movies at some point.
― Matt DC, Thursday, 3 October 2013 08:53 (ten years ago) link
Maybe two thirds of the songs here are credit-rollers.
― Matt DC, Thursday, 3 October 2013 08:54 (ten years ago) link
I find this happens a lot when discussing 80s-influenced bands. They're stuffed with signifiers of the 80s but it's hard to pin them down to one particular band. Even though If I Could Change Your Mind sounds very derivative to me I can't place what it's derivative of. I think for young bands, all of these 80s records they've heard have merged so the result sounds "80s" more than it sounds like any one artist. Which is why reviews tend to resort to vague catch-alls like "John Hughes soundtrack".
And I see that Matt's just made the same point but shorter.
― Deafening silence (DL), Thursday, 3 October 2013 08:55 (ten years ago) link
There's a little bit of Kim Wilde in this too.
― Pingu Unchained (dog latin), Thursday, 3 October 2013 09:17 (ten years ago) link
If I Could Change Your Mind sounds a bit like 80's Heart meets the "don't look back, you can never look back" bit from Boys of Summer (Heart obviously being another bunch of sisters channeling Fleetwood Mac).
― i'll be your mraz (NickB), Thursday, 3 October 2013 09:49 (ten years ago) link
I thought Heart when I saw Haim at Glastonbury but couldn't say exactly why.
― Deafening silence (DL), Thursday, 3 October 2013 09:53 (ten years ago) link
Heart obviously being another bunch of sisters channeling Fleetwood Mac
Just realised this applies equally to the Corrs, so basically this is a rubbish point
― i'll be your mraz (NickB), Thursday, 3 October 2013 10:12 (ten years ago) link
One of the main accusations levelled at Haim seems to be that they're not daring or edgy enough; that they're aimed clearly at the same equivalent middle-aged whitebread audience extent in the mid-80s era they take their cues from. Is this fair? Are they really the Phil Collins / Billy Ocean / Aha / Wilson Philips of 2013? Are those who like them (middle-aged white men or otherwise) really just a bunch of Walter Whites who demand no more than a simple hook and a vague lyric to keep them satisfied? Is the fact I'm feeling this Haim album indicative that in a few months time I'll also fucking hate these other albums by Rashad Becker, Le1f and FIDLAR albums I'm also enjoying today?
― Pingu Unchained (dog latin), Thursday, 3 October 2013 10:37 (ten years ago) link
I've listenned to this album a bit, not having heard anything by them previously. "falling" is very good and there are some more tracks that seem nice but I don't really see what all the fuss is about.I haven't read the whole thread but they remind me a bit of ladyhawke in the super catchy 80s-electro-pop way. except ladyhawke's first album was great (but lacking depth).https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WfKZ8Ohqj4
― AlXTC from Paris, Thursday, 3 October 2013 10:55 (ten years ago) link
You could argue eighties audiences, thanks to MTV and the last bits of New Wave, had better ears.
xpost
― the objections to Drake from non-REAL HIPHOP people (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 3 October 2013 10:55 (ten years ago) link
wtf Walt White is into Boz Scaggs and Steely Dan, exemplary ILMer imo.
― opie dead eyed piece of shit (Merdeyeux), Thursday, 3 October 2013 11:05 (ten years ago) link
just a bunch of Walter Whites who demand no more than a simple hook and a vague lyric to keep them satisfied
Not the message I took from Breaking Bad to be honest.
A ton of great pop is about a simple hook and a vague lyric. Nothing to agonise over. It's just one flavour among many. Accusing Haim of not being "edgy" is like accusing These New Puritans of not writing radio bangers.
― Deafening silence (DL), Thursday, 3 October 2013 11:34 (ten years ago) link
Although I'd say Haim's hooks aren't that simple, their lyrics aren't that vague and their production is fantastic. I don't buy your hierarchy, whether the straw man is (old-fashioned rockist model) teenage girls or (easier target) middle-aged white guys.
― Deafening silence (DL), Thursday, 3 October 2013 11:36 (ten years ago) link
Seems pretty clear that Doglatin likes the record, he's just posing pointless essay questions and indulging in a bit of mild handwringing.
― Matt DC, Thursday, 3 October 2013 11:53 (ten years ago) link
Hah, I guess I equate my own Dad in the eighties with Walter White in many ways. Don't think he bought any new music after 1990 off his own back, so Now 7 and Get Close are, for me, very much "Dad music". Haim are also "Dad music" in my mind, but only in the way they know exactly which nostalgic buttons to push for me to enjoy them without feeling overly emotionally manipulated. Neither do I think they're particularly bland. The conception that Haim are unchallenging might be founded on something, but I haven't listened to this yet and wished they'd fucked it up a bit more - I think that would be missing the point. They're not this generation's Coldplay is what I'm saying.
― Pingu Unchained (dog latin), Thursday, 3 October 2013 12:02 (ten years ago) link
the Phil Collins / Billy Ocean / Aha / Wilson Philips of 2013?
Again, this doesn't have to be a bad thing, which is what many/some critics perhaps are missing. It's 2013, and maybe something like some combination/distant reflection of those acts is what we need now, or at least what we want. If in the the '80s they were or could be sort of facile, these days it's refreshing. I'm no Vampire Weekend guy, but I always appreciate the guy's approach to guitar, which he said was inspired by growing up in the distorted angry grunge era, which pushed him toward a clean guitar sound a la a lot of African music and more upbeat melodies. I don't listen to Haim because it sounds like the '80s - I have '80s music for that. But as a stubborn alternative to the I guess angriness and ugliness and aggression some want (couched as"depth," I guess) I find it very welcome.
The rockist aspect to Haim - they play their own instruments! - is partly what protects them from accusations of being mere product. Hanson might be a good comparison, too.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 3 October 2013 12:03 (ten years ago) link
replace Walter White with any milquetoast middle-aged man - I only used him as a topical example.
― Pingu Unchained (dog latin), Thursday, 3 October 2013 12:03 (ten years ago) link
Seems that for a lot of people Haim are fundamentally misunderstood, but it's interesting to hear why people have an aversion to them. I guess there hasn't really been a band like this in a while now, so they're getting (perhaps unfairly) mapped onto everything from manufactured teen-pop, leechy retromania, MOR rock and hipster indie. Thing is, no one seems to be able to agree on which.
― Pingu Unchained (dog latin), Thursday, 3 October 2013 12:08 (ten years ago) link
I don't doubt that Haim are more likely to appeal to 80s Dads more than the latest Guettahouse banger, but that doesn't rule out their having appeal for younger audiences too.
― Luigi Nono, le petit robot (seandalai), Thursday, 3 October 2013 12:25 (ten years ago) link
scratch that second more
haim to cover "baby blue" on next EP
― ᶓ͠סּᴥ͠סּᶔ ᶓͼ᷆ₓͼ᷇ᶔ (gr8080), Thursday, 3 October 2013 12:31 (ten years ago) link
I'm glad Walter White is considered a typical middle-aged dad.
― the objections to Drake from non-REAL HIPHOP people (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 3 October 2013 12:48 (ten years ago) link
Lots of 20somethings singing along to them at the Roundhouse the other day. Not a lot of middle aged men.
― Unsettled defender (ithappens), Thursday, 3 October 2013 12:49 (ten years ago) link
A few years ago, a group of us middle aged pop hacks were disconcerted to discover that the 20somethings who were with us were wildly more enamoured of 80s MOR than we were. They couldn't believe our contempt for Everything I Do, for example, which they thought was an amazing ballad. So I think the assertion that 80s signifiers are for the old men might be misreading it.
― Unsettled defender (ithappens), Thursday, 3 October 2013 12:51 (ten years ago) link
Absolutely. This music has different resonances for different generations and lots of Haim fans are people who have discovered it via a similar route to the band rather than older guys (and why do middle-aged women never get mentioned?) who were big Mac fans in the 80s.
― Deafening silence (DL), Thursday, 3 October 2013 13:01 (ten years ago) link
Right - '86 pop is slowly becoming the retro sound of right now. Of course it's going to appeal to younger generations, possibly more so than those who actually had to live through that sound at the time. Not dissimilar from the electro and post-punk revivals of last decade, just feels a lot more narrowed in on a very specific type of pop music.
― Pingu Unchained (dog latin), Thursday, 3 October 2013 13:39 (ten years ago) link
The reason 'middle-aged men' were brought up is because that's what the Twitter/CollapseBoard people were arguing about being the target market for Haim and there was some discussion as to who was the target market - teens, middle-aged rockists or under-35 y/o hipsters.
― Pingu Unchained (dog latin), Thursday, 3 October 2013 13:41 (ten years ago) link
Kind of depressing when discussion of music degenerates into guessing who the "target market" might be.
― Deafening silence (DL), Thursday, 3 October 2013 13:48 (ten years ago) link
Which is worse, a band who knows their key demographic, or a band who just make music for themselves, and if anyone else likes it that's a bonus?
― Unsettled defender (ithappens), Thursday, 3 October 2013 13:51 (ten years ago) link
otm, plus it always ignores how diverse each of those markets are, and how - esp w/younger ones - a lot of it is reacting against itself
fleetwood mac have been "credible" touchstones for 20somethings for a while now i think? see also steely dan. and def 80s teen romances.
― lex pretend, Thursday, 3 October 2013 13:52 (ten years ago) link
It's kind of an ipso facto thing that if '86 pop or whatever appeals to Haim, it very likely could appeal to their similarly aged peers as well.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 3 October 2013 13:53 (ten years ago) link
Key thing, I guess, is that a lot of 20somethings will know these records inside out … because their parents had them, and probably also bought all the I Love the 80s-style comps. The only place 80s MOR didn't stay prevalent was in critical discourse; everywhere else it never went away.
― Unsettled defender (ithappens), Thursday, 3 October 2013 13:57 (ten years ago) link
this whole "its retro but hmmm what kind of retro is it?" talk drove me crazy when people were dissecting Kaputt and it drives me crazy w/ Haim. sure, no music exists in a bubble but jeez you guys give it a rest-- it sounds like 2013!!! music is music its not evolutionary biology.
― ᶓ͠סּᴥ͠סּᶔ ᶓͼ᷆ₓͼ᷇ᶔ (gr8080), Thursday, 3 October 2013 14:18 (ten years ago) link