ha, no worries, a few people have made it clear that they bookmark it and it's not like I often have anything incisive to say. I do wish some of the pros who follow the genre would post, but we all have different posting cycles
― rob, Wednesday, 27 November 2013 17:17 (ten years ago) link
Ha ha. I was reading a DC blogger grumbling that most folks involved in the non-profit and governmental etc community in DC do not go out and dance to programmed beat Nigerian and South African dance music in the few clubs in DC that play such sounds. The blogger says that such folks (many of 'em white, former Peace Corps folks), if they listen to music at all, only listen to what he snears at as old-people African music -- made with guitars and such from people in Mali.
Haha I can totally sympathize
― 乒乓, Wednesday, 27 November 2013 17:27 (ten years ago) link
Just received this pr email from a publicist about the #1 album on the Billboard World Music charts. Ugh, I admit it, I do not care about this:
CELTIC WOMAN Returns to #1 World Music Chart... "LIVE IN CONCERT" Airs on PBS Through the Holidays!
Why is there not a thread on CELTIC WOMAN and why are there not zillions of posts all mentioning tweets, instagrams, blog discussions, etc. about it. Seriously, I am sure there are folks here into Celtic music, but its not my thing.
― curmudgeon, Wednesday, 27 November 2013 17:36 (ten years ago) link
i glance at the billboard world music chart occasionally and it very very very rarely contains any albums i'm interested in
― Mordy , Wednesday, 27 November 2013 17:44 (ten years ago) link
I made friends with a group of South African girls once because I was the only American they'd met who new SA house and kwaito.
― when a real whiney hold you down, you sposed to drown (The Reverend), Wednesday, 27 November 2013 17:50 (ten years ago) link
I would like to get into "world" music because I have some itches that I think cant be scratched by anything else, I was thinking of asking for the best steelpan drum music because I fooking love the sound of that instrument; also stuff with the super tropical fruity sounds that I really like. I was searching out Calypso a year or two ago and not much of it really fit what I was looking for except Shadow (sometimes called Mighty Shadow; for some reason Calypso artists have names like Mighty Swallow and Mighty Sparrow. I think maybe the "mighty" is added later in their careers?). Great song....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iEpBzIbUKw
Last time I checked this stuff is difficult to find.
The reason I havent put up any of these request threads or participated in the World Music thread is because I'm shoulder deep in several rock/pop genres, I've been meaning to be big in brit/european folk for almost a decade but I've still barely scratched the surface; I also really want to be big into classical but I only have like 5 or 6 classical records. I recently bought the Rough Guide To Classical Music (someone recommeded it in one of the classical threads) and it is marvellous, but I also thought "Am I ever going to hear even a quarter of these guys, and these are only the superstars, there is way more. In the back there was an advert for the Rough Guide To World Music and I thought "I'll need that too someday, but I'm not ready yet".
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Wednesday, 27 November 2013 17:57 (ten years ago) link
come to the world music thread, rag - you're awesome + you'll love it
― Mordy , Wednesday, 27 November 2013 18:02 (ten years ago) link
You've flattered me enough that I'll feel guilty for not going there now. I'll take my questions that I mentioned above.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Wednesday, 27 November 2013 19:24 (ten years ago) link
So yeah this thread concerns some things that are deep in my wheelhouse yet vex me time and time again. So many of my favorite things are technically guilty of exoticization/othering/orientalism. How do I square the perniciousness of the mechanism with the bone deep pleasure I have derived over the years from things like
Debussy Pagodes etcBritten Curlew River, Death In VeniceSzymanowski 3rd symphony after RumiLes Baxter LPsMiklos Rozsa and Jerry Goldsmith and Henry Mancini film scoresKoechlin's Les Heures PersanesBernard Herrmann 7th Voyage of SinbadRimsky FFSStrauss fantasy operas like Die Frau Ohne SchattenDelius incidental music for HassanSun City GirlsGil Evans LPsDuke Ellington 'Bakiff'Coltrane 'India' and Ole!Georges Delerue's many north african tinged film scoresThe Russian ballet tradition
This is all stuff which I love with a real fever and I so often respond more strongly to culturally promiscuous and mongrelized versions of things much more than I do to the genuine articles. Or I like the genuine article to be jumbled in a trunk a la the Secret Museum series.
I might note that I am an impoverished american sickly areligious white runt who has never gone ANYWHERE irl despite being well read. I am fucking 43 and have been to Canada and that's it. Is that why I vibe so hard with exotica artifacts from eras when euro/US composers and musicians really hadn't been anywhere in person and used that as an excuse to trip balls? Am I deeply racist for cherishing this stuff?
― yes, i have seen the documentary (Jon Lewis), Wednesday, 27 November 2013 19:54 (ten years ago) link
just an amen to the above post, esp with regard to Duke Ellington and Sun City Girls in particular- they are both entirely self-aware artists who know what they're up to, and part of that does feel like a perverse desire to push the very buttons in question- but the SCGs really do have a love of the things they're stealing (hello Eric Lott's "Love and Theft" argument re: minstrelsy!)- with Ellington it's harder to figure out what his actual take on Asian music was . . .
I guess that's part of why the Mauricio Kagel piece "Exotica" is so amazing to me- it builds the structure of racist fantasy and mimesis into the supposed free space of responding in real time to recordings of ethnic music and works the whole delivery system into itself- it's an inspired way to make music with and about these tense moments of encounter
― the tune was space, Wednesday, 27 November 2013 20:06 (ten years ago) link
How could I have forgotten Far East Suite and Afro-Eurasian Eclipse! Durrr.
I rly need to hear that kagel piece.
― yes, i have seen the documentary (Jon Lewis), Wednesday, 27 November 2013 20:11 (ten years ago) link
http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2014/05/cultural-appropriation-in-fashion-stop-talking-about-it/370826/
― 龜, Sunday, 18 May 2014 00:50 (ten years ago) link
It's kind of fascinating to me how much the pop music machine continues to do essentially what it did in the 50s, i.e. pump out white artists who can make black musical/cultural tropes just slightly more accessible to white audiences. I mean the difference now is that the white artists "appropriating" black music and the black artists coexist more in the pop universe and a listener is more likely to listen to both. But I think we're so used to hearing white artists incorporate diction/vocal tics/slang/dance moves/etc. associated with black culture that we sometimes don't even notice it, e.g. Meaghan Trainor singing that she's "All About That Bass." I mean what's weird to me is that people specifically single out Miley Cyrus twerking as "appropriation" but not like 95% of white pop artists outside of country music.
I don't know that there's anything wrong with cross-cultural borrowing per se, but it seems like what is perceived as "black culture" in 2015 continues to be a space for white people to let loose, be more sexual, be more aggressive, etc. like in certain ways the role of black people in the white imagination hasn't changed much.
― on entre O.K. on sort K.O. (man alive), Friday, 4 September 2015 15:06 (eight years ago) link
Yeah. I was listening to Negativland's "Dispepsi" and there is a clip from a marketing exec about marketing to stereotyping and perceived roles. It basically describes what the entertainment industry is doing now, yes, but also always doing. It isn't limited to a single industry but illustrative of a lot of unresolved cultural issues that are maybe now being more discussed and broadcasted than ever before.
The entertainment industry has always been exploitative of minorities and women, the only question is are we at an all-time high or have things really always just been this bad and not talked about bc of media supremacy?
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Friday, 4 September 2015 15:35 (eight years ago) link
It's certainly still constant and a serious issue but when a bunch of stars show up to support jay-z's tech venture I can't imagine we're at an "all-time high"
― da croupier, Friday, 4 September 2015 16:05 (eight years ago) link
like macklemore is definitely on the timeline with pat boone but i don't think pat boone ever publicly apologized to little richard
― da croupier, Friday, 4 September 2015 16:09 (eight years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQ-qRSsmg10
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Friday, 4 September 2015 16:26 (eight years ago) link
t's kind of fascinating to me how much the pop music machine continues to do essentially what it did in the 50s, i.e. pump out white artists who can make black musical/cultural tropes just slightly more accessible to white audiences... it seems like what is perceived as "black culture" in 2015 continues to be a space for white people to let loose, be more sexual, be more aggressive, etc. like in certain ways the role of black people in the white imagination hasn't changed much.
it seems like what is perceived as "black culture" in 2015 continues to be a space for white people to let loose, be more sexual, be more aggressive, etc. like in certain ways the role of black people in the white imagination hasn't changed much.
Tbf, the American popular music industry (which owes some of its early history to the minstrel show era) was doing this before the 50s. Cf. the Jazz Age, etc.
― EveningStar (Sund4r), Friday, 4 September 2015 18:17 (eight years ago) link
I'm kind of fascinated that someone could post the OP on ILM in 2001 and have several people agree with him.
― EveningStar (Sund4r), Friday, 4 September 2015 18:18 (eight years ago) link
I wasn't quite here yet, but wasn't Dave Q known for those kinds of posts, as a schtick? He was like the "hot takes" guy of earlier ILM, is my impression.
― on entre O.K. on sort K.O. (man alive), Friday, 4 September 2015 18:26 (eight years ago) link
iirc ILM 2001 was into white boy bands doing Eurofied takes on Tony! Toni! Toné!
― welltris (crüt), Friday, 4 September 2015 18:27 (eight years ago) link
lol
― on entre O.K. on sort K.O. (man alive), Friday, 4 September 2015 18:28 (eight years ago) link
Yes, and I think my point stands.:P
― EveningStar (Sund4r), Friday, 4 September 2015 18:38 (eight years ago) link
This actually reminds me that last year I observed Yom Kippur for the first time in many years, and since I couldn't actually go to a Kol Nidre service (night service for beginning of Yom Kippur with special service/melodies for that night only) I listened to a really good recording of it on Spotify alone. And it struck me what an amazing, harrowing piece of music it is, but I couldn't bring myself to listen to it again on any other time, because I didn't want to disrespect its purpose.
At the same time though, I would have no problem whatsoever with a non-Jewish person (or a Jewish person for that matter) listening to Kol Nidre purely for pleasure/interest, completely stripped of its context. So appropriate away.
― on entre O.K. on sort K.O. (man alive), Friday, 4 September 2015 19:57 (eight years ago) link
rules obtain: appropriation of the velvet underground = good; appropriation of procol harum = bad
― reggie (qualmsley), Friday, 4 September 2015 20:18 (eight years ago) link
Sund4r- isn't the majority of the thread mostly in agreement with the top post?
http://davidbyrne.com/archive/news/press/articles/I_hate_world_music_1999.php
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Thursday, 9 June 2016 21:25 (seven years ago) link
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DNpUZCXXcAExoEa.jpg
― mark s, Thursday, 2 November 2017 17:59 (six years ago) link
I find my self more and more struck and sometimes annoyed at how much american/british pop music there is that leans heavily on trying to sound like soul and R&B music. Like I had always *known* "rock and roll is black music" but I didn't realize when I was younger how much every single fucking white rock/pop singer is imitating black singers.
― Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 20:32 (six years ago) link
any specific examples here? surely a lot of rock singers, especially contemporary ones, are imitating other rock singers?
― Badgers (dog latin), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 21:02 (six years ago) link
Bob Seeger was one who struck me recently. Wasn't thinking so much about contemporary as 60s-80s.
Also, less of a singer thing, but it hit me recently that the Doors rhythm section was trying to sound like Booker T. and the MGs.
― Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 21:08 (six years ago) link
were they? I always thought Densmore wanted to play bebop and got stuck in a rock band
― It's not delivery, it's Adorno! (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 7 February 2018 03:53 (six years ago) link
Tom waits embarrasses me to listen to now lol
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Wednesday, 7 February 2018 04:14 (six years ago) link
For this reason among others
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Wednesday, 7 February 2018 04:15 (six years ago) link
this is a good piece btw https://www.currentaffairs.org/2017/09/the-question-of-cultural-appropriation
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Wednesday, 7 February 2018 21:56 (six years ago) link