can't believe ilx has no lostprophets thread

CASE oy

if only these women would have heard arcade fire

There is a possible analogue with Polanski if you replace the world of one specific music fandom with the world of 'the film world': both men have positions of power and status, in a demi-monde isolated from the rest of society

cardamon - your cultural studies analysis is clumsy and inelegant at best

the codefendants in this place let him rape their children, why are you treating them like ingenues induced into transgressive behaviour rather than psychopaths in their own right?

Not attempting to downplay the latter part. But do we know what the balance was, between him and them, i.e, do we know yet to what extent he induced them? And again, say they needed no inducement and they are just that type of psychopath, how did they end up interacting with Watkins specifically, instead of the abuse happening in some other context

if you analogize it with something as nebulous and wide as 'the film world' you lose whatever tendentious argument you had with respect to the specific dynamics of the provincial british emo-metal-trash scene

Michael B, point me in the direction of some good studies of abusers and I will read them. I was under the impression that there's a fairly common pattern where, as I said, abusers 'have positions of power and status, in a demi-monde isolated from the rest of society'.

Whiney, you know that's not what I'm saying

I mean I dunno if we were talking about Charles Manson we'd talk about the world he moved in, and ask if answers could be found there?

*some of the answers

seeking the cause of something that happens across all barriers of age, class, gender and sexuality in a specific socio-cultural milieu looks like a fool's errand. as to why people commit these crimes - it may have some interest to us if it could provide useful evidence in the search for means to prevent future crimes. beyond that, i think it's irrelevant why somebody chooses to abuse a child. it's not an act that admits of mitigation.

Do you see my posts itt as arguing for mitigation?

I think that when we are confronted by the extreme fringes of human depravity (the subject of evil) it is natural to try and understand said events however clumsy, even if it helps no one but our own psychological relief. Cardamon: mine and our Arendt.

xp

yes, up to a point - trying to identify a milieu that makes abuse more likely to happen means saying some people have lower odds of not becoming abusers - but as i say, i don't think statistics bears that out at all.

i mean obviously if you want to help your own psychological relief go for it but i don't think causal accounts of criminality are v. fruitful in a broad sense

say watkins didn't exist, wonder if those two women have ended up doing this kind of thing anyway

that's not answerable in any way that isn't fantasy

yes, up to a point - trying to identify a milieu

Well, fwiw, what my posts were trying to look at was not the milieu so much as the power relationships

that makes abuse more likely to happen means saying some people have lower odds of not becoming abusers - but as i say, i don't think statistics bears that out at all.

Not what I intended to say, although if it looked like I was saying that, fair enough, glad ppl are calling it out.

Although if, again, we were talking about Charles Manson, I don't think identifying what parts of the world he moved in helped him to commit his crimes, would 'mean saying' that such crimes could only happen within the part of the hippy culture he inhabited. Likewise with Polanski, who had his enablers and powerful defenders in the film world, I don't think that would mean saying that only in the film world could such crimes have been committed. Or if we're talking about abusers operating in the military, or children's homes, or any other site of abuse. There's nothing there, in the specific location of a crime, that should make us comfortable or complacent because we move in a different world

There are every year in Britain numerous cases of men persuading women to let them abuse their children. Most of them are not rock stars, or rich, or famous.

My wife's work sometimes involves child protection cases and yes, this was pretty much her response when she first heard the story.

Speculating when you have none of the facts helps no-one. I can understand why ppl try to do it but I think it's a little tabloid esque

xp to me Also, are we going to just exonerate the world a criminal moves in and say, nah, there's nothing in the star/fan relationship that helps abusers, nothing in the military that does that, nah, the world is innocent, just these evil-doers come along

Hearing under way: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-25412675

the court heard Watkins had said in a phone call after admitting the charges: "It was mega lols. I don't know what everyone is getting freaked out about."

He denied being a paedophile and told the caller he only pleaded guilty to avoid a trial.

liveblog here for the prurient

"The involvement and responsibility of these offences is joint and equal and without the mothers would not have taken place."

this guy is truly a class act

Watkins is now said to be "ashamed and appalled by what has happened".

That's certainly what I would surmise from the phrase "it was megalolz. I don't know what everyone is getting freaked out about."

Sentences in around half an hour, it seems.

compelled to note here that use of the term "megalolz" doubles as a reference to a line of Lostprophets merchandise from a few years back

wonder if it's too late for his defence to present a case like "well my client feels like he got the football man, he's running towards the touchdown and stopping and looking back, mess around, he’ll get tackled"

Watkins' defence lawyers have also told the court that he is not the first rock star to get carried away by the effect of adulation from fans, and end up taking advantage of it.

Not sure the Hammer of the Gods defence works with baby rape.

Th Hammer of the Gods defence shouldn't work with anything.

nothing says "truly sorry" like trying to shift as much blame as possible onto other people

His defence lawyer is a woman. Imagine having to take that case.

The musician held more computer data than the police force who investigated his evil crimes, it was claimed.

Detective Chief Inspector Peter Doyle, who led the investigation, said: "Watkins' data storage size was 27 terabytes - which is five times the size of South Wales Police systems in storage capacity.

"Not all of it was illegal material, but if you need 27 terabytes then you're clearly into that kind of world."

Hmm, that could be a heck of a lot of mp3 files...

Seems like a musician might have a lot of uncompressed audio files of his own recordings, plus backups, which would need a lot of storage, right? Seems weird for the police to draw the conclusion that multi-terabytes of storage equals involvement in 'that kind of world'.

this judge certainly isn't megaloling

xpost - Unless it’s 27 terrabytes of pornographic material and the distinction is being made between the stuff that’s legal and the stuff that isn’t? In which case yah, I can see how 27 TBs of porn could be seen as a wee bit dodge tbh.

you know what they say about 'big data'

29 years

Mother A = 14 years
Mother B = 17 years

correction: 35 years for Watkins

Serve 20 before release, that extra 6 years is just a licence period

Meanwhile, Twitter's automated "related searches" on Ian Watkins names the other defendants.

jail Twitter imo

His defence lawyer is a woman member of civilized society. Imagine having to take that case.

Yeah, you'd think that it'd be pretty distressing to have to read all the statements and case papers on this. fuck.

Seems like a musician might have a lot of uncompressed audio files of his own recordings, plus backups, which would need a lot of storage, right? Seems weird for the police to draw the conclusion that multi-terabytes of storage equals involvement in 'that kind of world'.

Uncompressed 24-bit 96KHz stereo audio takes up 2GB per hour, which means he could store 13,500 hours of it on his 27 terabyte drives.

Even allowing for using 100 stereo tracks of audio per song (haha) and assuming each song was five minutes long, that means he still would've had space for 1,620 songs - about three times as many as Dylan's ever written.

Don't think he's gonna be releasing any of those tracks anytime soon though.

this is assuming that those 27 TB are anywhere near full god why am i even

South Wales police have around $150 worth of storage. great job.

Good luck anyone on Twitter with the misfortune to have the same name as either of the co-defendants. That's going to get nasty.

@AVB