Is there a worse producer in the universe than Bill Laswell?

Laswell's recording of the Master Musicians of Jajouka's "Apocalypse Across the Sky" is pretty amazing.

^^^^this

http://i.walmart.com/i/p/00/07/56/78/25/0007567825532_500X500.jpg

is Mick going through her purse on that cover?

He used her lipstick.

I think Laswell is pretty much hit and miss. I generally like his ideas, but often the actual sound on his stuff is often pretty flat and boring, and sometimes his choices of organizing the sound is downright confusing, in a bad way. And his bass playing is rather uninspired too. So maybe he should work just as an ideas man/curator, and leave the actual sound production to other folks. However, the trio of electro albums he did with Herbie Hancock is still pretty much unfuckwithable - especially Perfect Machine, which is maybe the best electro-funk album of all time. So I can't really call anyone who produced those albums the worst in the universe.

yeah - he's very erratic but he's been involved with too many totally amazing things (Rockit, MMOJ, Last Exit) to really call him terrible.

Laswell's recording of the Master Musicians of Jajouka's "Apocalypse Across the Sky" is pretty amazing.

^^^^this

this was the soundtrack to the first bad acid trip I ever had and I've had a really hard time listening to it ever since (so, like, 15 years!). In fact I must not even have this anymore, I don't remember seeing it. It was amazing up to that point though.

I like Laswell's work on PIL's Album and Swan's "The Burning World", I know everyone hates those records but I think they're great, it's a stroke of genius to put Steve Vai on a Lydon record.

Album is great

also the most annoying thing about Laswell to me is his eagerness to take credit for everything, including hip hop that I think he arguably had little to do with. This was more annoying ten years ago when it seemed really off the wall and not true; these days it kind of seems like he already convinced everyone of his absolute paramount importance and people believe it.

yeah it seems like everyone hated 'album' at the time because it sounded so commercial but for fuck's sake look what came after that. It's like the last artistically worthy thing Lydon ever involved himself in.

I dunno producing the first record to feature scratching is kind of a big deal. he didn't "invent" hip-hop anymore than James Brown did, but he was certainly in the right place at the right time doing the right thing with the right people.

you can say that about a lot of his career I guess.

http://www.a-i-u.net/images/starpeace.jpg

oh yoko

Starpeace of shit is more like it.

I have far too many conflicting feelings about Laswell for one post. As mentioned upthread, the guy SHOULD be an absolute favorite of mine (and was...a long, long time ago) -- he's worked with just about every hero I could imagine (he was Jim O'Rourke before Jim O'Rourke was cool).

But the sheer amount of aimless supersession in his catalog is unforgivable and, in practice, little different than those jams that would conclude the Prince's Trust concerts back in the 80s. It's sort of the dark side of Toop's Ocean of Sound theory, really -- just this soup of sound, as if throwing Bernie Worrell and Bootsy Collins on a record naturally makes it funkier.

What I know best out of his work is the three albums he produced for Herbie Hancock in the 80s. And they were all great.

I second Freeman's endorsement of Orgasmatron. Great fucking record. That thick, dubby production is the last think you'd expect on a Motorhead record. But it makes sense, considering Lemmy's bass powers the ship.

As mentioned upthread, the guy SHOULD be an absolute favorite of mine (and was...a long, long time ago) -- he's worked with just about every hero I could imagine

Yeah, I mean, his superstar baiting period (Mick, Yoko) was mostly dreck -- he was hired to apply a carapace of avant-gardism to mostly dreary tracks. I'm not even fond of Album beyond "Rise," "FFF," and the one about the dustbin with the Ryuichi Sakamoto synth interlude.

I saw swans on the burning world tour and came away thinking laswell should have his knob-twiddling fingers broken. performed live the material was intense and hypnotic, like some of the quieter pieces on children of god. could've been a great album.

that mick jagger album would've sucked if the dali lama produced it

for somebody so prolific there are bound to be misfires and mismatches. laswell's been involved in a lot of great albums, admittedly as musician as often as producer. those herbie hancock albums, the early material stuff. his own basslines album, sakamoto's great neo geo, all the celluloid 12-inches...so later, haters.

that mick jagger album would've sucked if the dali lama produced it

of course, his holiness has no training in recording engineering.

Laswell's three songs on Mister Heartbreak ("Sharkey's Day", "Kokuku" and "Sharkey's Night") aren't bad.

As a producer, Bruce Hornsby likes that same lousy drum sound -- you know the one.

I second Freeman's endorsement of Orgasmatron. Great fucking record. That thick, dubby production is the last think you'd expect on a Motorhead record. But it makes sense, considering Lemmy's bass powers the ship.

uh. okay. always sounded really thin to me, rather like a better version of his godawful production on white zombie's make them die slowly. like a guy who doesn't know rock, doesn't like rock, but goddamit he's gonna produce some rock. orgasmatron ain't a bad album but the production really hinders it excepting the title track.

maybe i just need to turn the bass way up or something?

We need a "who is the worst producer ever /your least favourite/most hated producer ever" thread.

Start it!

I was hoping someone better with the search function than I would find an old one, but fuck it.

I listened to the first Last Exit album again yesterday evening for the first time in years. Back in '86 I thought it was the total business but now I realise that they weren't really as good as I hoped they'd be. Brotzmann and Sharrock are magnificent throughout - especially when the other two aren't getting in their way - but Laswell's six strings really drag the whole enterprise down and I don't understand the love for Shannon Jackson seeing as he only ever plays one rhythm.

that's weird, I was just listening to the noise of trouble this morning, mostly because I couldn't find the first album in the tape pile. I don't fault laswell as a muso, he's done some great stuff (massacre!).

as a producer it's cool to be mr. unconvential and work against the rote tropes of the trade, but laswell's production ideas tend to be more interesting than the actual ouput. a quiet swans album! a dub motorhead album! they look good on paper.

anybody have an opinion on his dub album w/ jah wobble?

http://www.roir.com/8288.htm

I would be shocked if it didn't sound like every other dub record Laswell's ever produced — and he's produced a TON, most of which are virtually interchangeable, despite the revolving cast of characters ("This one has Wobble!" "OMG, Haruomi Hosono's on this!"). The result is the same, every single time: lots of wet, facelessly digital, phasey atmospherics, tons of delay and—oddly for dub—almost no sense of space whatsoever.

Honestly, it's incredible how little Laswell has accomplished with all the studio time he's logged.

he's kept this thread going for 7 years, surely that's got to count for something

I should also add: about 15 years ago, I bought a ton of this guy's stuff — all those Axiom comps, the Material records, etc. I seriously couldn't get enough of it — the guy was just working with every hero I could imagine, from virtually every surviving member of P-Funk to all sorts of world musicians with names I couldn't pronounce who played instruments I'd never heard of.

Then it sort of hit me: everything this guy did was all kind of the same. The ludicrous liner notes to much of these records notwithstanding, there wasn't really any concept or "driving force" behind it at all -- just this sense that because modern recording technology allowed you to have the Master Musicians of Jajouka jam with Sly and Robbie, you should.

I mean, seriously, look at some of these collaborations on paper:

Slavemaster: Michael Hampton and Gary "Mudbone" Cooper tearing it behind frontman Islam Shabazz shouting Muslim propaganda.

Bachir Attar: Jajouka musician playing with a percussionist and Maceo Parker

Bahia Black: Herbie Hancock and Wayne Shorter with a Brazilian drum troupe.

Jah Wobble's Heaven and Earth: PiL bass god playing with Pharaoh Sanders, Bernie Worrell and various DJ's

Dark Side of the Moog: Multiple synthfests with the likes of Klaus Schulze and Pete Namlook

Dub Meltdown: Laswell and Dub Syndicate rhythm supremo, Style Scott

Third Rail: Blood Ulmer, Bernie Worrell, Meters drummer, Zigaboo Modeliste

Radioaxiom w/ Jah Wobble, Nils Petter Molvær, Hamid Drake, Amina Claudine Myers, Sly Dunbar, Aiyb Deng, Nicky Skopelitis, Graham Haynes, Karsh Kale, and vocalist Gigi Shibabbaw

Every one of these things sounds like they should be incredible -- and virtually none of them are. Very few of the players are given any space to really stretch out or, if they are, the support or context they need to shine. It's just soup.

I'll be the first to point out that the records he's done that have worked are often amazing: PiL's Album, the 80s Hancock records. And there aren't that many people who have the Rolodex Bill Laswell clearly does. It's just kind of a shame he hasn't done more worthwhile stuff with it.

I second Freeman's endorsement of Orgasmatron. Great fucking record. That thick, dubby production is the last think you'd expect on a Motorhead record. But it makes sense, considering Lemmy's bass powers the ship.

uh. okay. always sounded really thin to me, rather like a better version of his godawful production on white zombie's make them die slowly. like a guy who doesn't know rock, doesn't like rock, but goddamit he's gonna produce some rock. orgasmatron ain't a bad album but the production really hinders it excepting the title track.

There's a certain absurdity to the record that I dig. Lemmy even sounds as if he's rapping or something on the title track. For me, this is what nu metal SHOULD"VE sounded like!

I guess Laswell produced Massacre - Killing Time? Don't like the sound on that one. Plus the cd version is an annoying compilation with bonus tracks and live cuts added in the middle of the album. Stupid idea

i still listen to this album after all these years and there are times when i think it sounds great and other times when i am just baffled by the muffled weirdness of some tracks soundwise:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/147/374535428_476f52fb90.jpg?v=0

John Zorn is arguably as bad, in a different way. Laswell makes everything sound the same, Zorn manages to consistently pull subpar performances out of pretty much whoever he works with on Tzadik, with very few exceptions.

I love Massacre's Killing Time! Best thing the guy ever did imho. Will also rep for Material up to and including Memory Serves.

Odd. I usually find that the Tzadik release/s are the keeper/s for me with many artists.

xpost

Material 1980 w/Sonny Sharrock & Fred Frirth

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h78HoFFGWiU

I didn't realize until that 1984 poll that Laswell had produced Time Zone's "World Destruction".

i miss dave q

he's kept this thread going for 7 years, surely that's got to count for something

― Edward III, Thursday, August 14, 2008 10:49 AM (3 years ago)

Also enjoyed NTI's elaboration of his "soup" stance in the following post.

I don't miss the 2001 me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3CZPNT9GSs...pertinent...

Speaking of Laswell on the Whitney Houston RIP thread, somebody says Nona Hendryx is better suited to Laswell's purposes. I liked Nona with Proproganda, especially live, but she always seemed too compressed on (my already ancient stereo's impression of) the first pressing of One Down. Maybe Laswell as more suitably rank-n-filem than Whitney. Here's the way Alfred and I discussed "Memories":

Only things wrong with "Memories": Shepp, struggling with his lip for years, overplays the very first note of his solo, a little "ethereal" breathiness/brain fart, but then redeems himself (thing of no wrong notes if you can come up with the right context); also, do we really need kitchen percussion to show how real this is? But the song, the singer the feeling merge perfectly.

Gamble & Huff also recalled Ms. Houston’s strong Philly connection:
- A then-unknown Whitney Houston recorded “Hold Me,” a duet with Gamble & Huff recording artist Teddy Pendergrass for his 1984 Elektra album, “Love Language,” his first following the automobile accident that left him paralyzed.

― dow, Sunday, February 12, 2012 3:14 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Only things wrong with "Memories": Shepp, struggling with his lip for years, overplays the very first note of his solo

I wondered about this! I agree. At any rate it's too loud for a few seconds.

― Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, February 12, 2012 3:17 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Kind of a "Hahhh", quietly overwrought stage whisper--not just the lip, maybe also the perils of what the young Shepp mocked as "my Stan Getz shit", talking to Leroi Jones. But when they were on it, Getz and Shepp made a lot of good records fueled by that shit (among other things).

missed cutting the beginning of the Gamble & Huff press release, sorry

Also clipped "Maybe Laswell heard Nona as more rank-n-file than Whitney" (so maybe deliberately compressed her)

more of a starship trooper

more ship than stars, except to us fans of the in-crowd

I like his Miles remix record

I do too.

I haven't heard all that many Axiom records, and the hit/miss ratio is pretty terrible for what I've heard, but I remember being very captivated by the fold-out catalog that came with one of the cds I got in college. It felt like he was creating a world, throwing together with all these different genres, musicians I'd heard of, and mysterious titles and artwork. That was a bigger influence on me than the music, a lot of which is, like, bad trip-hop and funk jams.