right before he does that he says "this guitar represents Art Garfunkel and all the people who've tried to fuck with me over the years." one of the harder episodes from mid-80s sesame street
― second set all dead boys covers (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Monday, 27 January 2014 15:15 (ten years ago) link
idk maybe the cultural boycott was overall worthwhile but it was undoubtably harsh in that it prevented a lot of people who were already vicitms of apartheid from even being able to work at all
― lag∞n, Monday, 27 January 2014 15:17 (ten years ago) link
actually, Gonzo was Carrie Fisher's divorce attorney
xp
― eclectic husbandry (Dr Morbius), Monday, 27 January 2014 15:18 (ten years ago) link
Interesting post here:
http://www.ethanzuckerman.com/blog/2009/04/02/from-protest-to-collaboration-paul-simons-graceland-and-lessons-for-xenophiles/
I guess on theory is that the credit he did give was a desperate attempt at political cover. But who knows?
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 27 January 2014 15:21 (ten years ago) link
who knows what lies in the dark heart of simon
― lag∞n, Monday, 27 January 2014 15:24 (ten years ago) link
lol though I'm not sure that dude's actually heard "do they know it's christmas"
And there won’t be snow in Africa this Christmas time The average gift they’ll get this year is life - See more at: http://www.ethanzuckerman.com/blog/2009/04/02/from-protest-to-collaboration-paul-simons-graceland-and-lessons-for-xenophiles/#sthash.UFyjohKY.dpuf
― second set all dead boys covers (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Monday, 27 January 2014 15:26 (ten years ago) link
God damn it
And there won’t be snow in Africa this Christmas time The average gift they’ll get this year is life
― second set all dead boys covers (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Monday, 27 January 2014 15:27 (ten years ago) link
(Personally, I think “Sun City” stands up to the test of time significantly better than many of the other benefit songs
yeah no
― Bryan Fairy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 27 January 2014 15:27 (ten years ago) link
xp That's a valid criticism of artistic boycotts. My point is that Simon handled it really badly. He asked Belafonte for advice before he went. Belafonte suggested he talk to the ANC first and find a way to do it without hurting the boycott (which technically covered live performances, not recording in SA) and Simon ignored him. Then when it came to defending himself he wobbled between "art isn't political" (disingenuous, given his previous campaigning for eg McGovern), smearing the ANC and claiming he was actually helping SA. He was just too stubborn and arrogant to take other feelings into account.
― Deafening silence (DL), Monday, 27 January 2014 15:29 (ten years ago) link
Which is why Van Zandt's take is interesting. At this remove, it's hard to see how Graceland did any harm and it's a beloved album, so you need people who dealt with him at the time to point out what a dick he was about it.
― Deafening silence (DL), Monday, 27 January 2014 15:33 (ten years ago) link
former hippie liberals becoming cranky me-firsters to line their pockets, not exactly unheard of. I bet Paul is buds with the Clintons too.
― eclectic husbandry (Dr Morbius), Monday, 27 January 2014 15:33 (ten years ago) link
yeah he just wanted to jam man, it def seems like his approach was pretty self involved and willfully naive, but on the other hand he did it seems manage to conduct himself in a way that if it didn't comply with the letter of the boycott did with the spirit in that his work didn't benefit ruling regime, which is prob indicative of some greater awareness of the situation
― lag∞n, Monday, 27 January 2014 15:37 (ten years ago) link
― Deafening silence (DL), Monday, January 27, 2014 10:33 AM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
yeah idk i would love for him to give a more comprehensive telling of the story, obvs this was very conversational
― lag∞n, Monday, 27 January 2014 15:39 (ten years ago) link
There are all sorts of stories of Simon's total cultural blindness and self-obsession. What's the one re: "Graceland" where he had never heard of zydeco? He's certainly an opportunist, but count me among those who think "Graceland" did far more good than harm. And after all, Simon never did play "Sun City."
xpost I'm not sure that post claims "Sun City" is a good song, but it's certainly miles better than "Hands Across America" and "We are the World." And at least it's an angry rallying cry, rather than "Do They Know Is Christmas?", which is a horribly patronizing sentiment. And it was inarguably more effective for these artists to publically boycott this South African resort than it was for a million others (and many of the same) to attempt to solve poverty and starvation in Ethiopia by way of song.
Some more details here: http://www.theguardian.com/music/2012/apr/19/paul-simon-graceland-acclaim-outrage
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 27 January 2014 15:43 (ten years ago) link
Meanwhile:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltpP6anAVVI
I have a friend who went, and she said it and the rest of the show were absolutely not well received by the lame crowd.
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 27 January 2014 15:44 (ten years ago) link
nothing is better than hands across america the concept
― lag∞n, Monday, 27 January 2014 15:45 (ten years ago) link
Hear 'N Aid's "Stars" is still the best benefit song.
― EZ Snappin, Monday, 27 January 2014 15:45 (ten years ago) link
"Sun City" video was worth it for Bono kissing a Fat Boy
― eclectic husbandry (Dr Morbius), Monday, 27 January 2014 15:46 (ten years ago) link
http://www.mentalfloss.com/sites/default/legacy/blogs/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/reagan-hands-across-america.jpg
― Bryan Fairy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 27 January 2014 15:48 (ten years ago) link
Never got the "Sun City" hate. Always loved that song. Can't think of any other record with nearly as mindblowing a lineup.
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Monday, 27 January 2014 15:49 (ten years ago) link
Yeah, I mean, the fact that it embraced/enlisted so many hip-hop acts alone is pretty OTM.
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 27 January 2014 15:54 (ten years ago) link
"We Are the World" is a terrible song too but it allows for the idiosyncracies of performers, first and second tier, while "Sun City" is just a blur with a beat.
― Bryan Fairy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 27 January 2014 15:55 (ten years ago) link
See first post here: http://ourrockandrollhalloffame71305.yuku.com/topic/2076/And-The-2014-Inductee-Class-for-the-RRHoF-Is?page=3
― Here he is with the classic "Poème Électronique." Good track (Marcello Carlin), Monday, 27 January 2014 15:59 (ten years ago) link
The book "The Kingdom of Zydeco" has the story on Simon learning about zydeco, working with zydeco musicians, recording sessions with 3 zydeco bands and taping a Rocking Dopsie zydeco instrumental (that turned out to be based on an old Creole standard) and from that creating the credited just to Simon song "That was Your Mother"
The book discussion is in google books too
― curmudgeon, Monday, 27 January 2014 16:00 (ten years ago) link
so who should he have credited
― lag∞n, Monday, 27 January 2014 16:03 (ten years ago) link
the celeb benefit song is such a weird terrible format but sun city def has by far the coolest dudes in it
― lag∞n, Monday, 27 January 2014 16:04 (ten years ago) link
To get off the UN blacklist, all an artist had to do was make a public apology and promise never to play South Africa again. The O'Jays did this, but Ronstadt (and many others) didn't.
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Monday, 27 January 2014 16:06 (ten years ago) link
x-post to Lagoon-- When Rockie Dopsie wanted credit on the song, that's when apparently Simon's label did research and discovered Dopsie had adapted it from an old Creole standard, and thus Simon made clear to Dopsie that he would lose in a suit. Don't some musicians when they adapt a traditional song, acknowledge that somehow in the credits?
― curmudgeon, Monday, 27 January 2014 16:11 (ten years ago) link
im no expert but id guess the answer is sometimes, but if its an old folk song then its authorship/ownership is communal really
― lag∞n, Monday, 27 January 2014 16:13 (ten years ago) link
i mean I'm sure it would've been cooler if simian credited him
― lag∞n, Monday, 27 January 2014 16:14 (ten years ago) link
lol "simian"
― Bryan Fairy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 27 January 2014 16:15 (ten years ago) link
hes an animal
― lag∞n, Monday, 27 January 2014 16:15 (ten years ago) link
rampaging the musical community devoting peoples writing credits
― lag∞n, Monday, 27 January 2014 16:16 (ten years ago) link
lol at van zandt getting simon off the assassination hit list, he is so connected
― tylerw, Monday, 27 January 2014 16:16 (ten years ago) link
idk overall its interesting how much people hate paul simon, id say the case itt is at best half made and relies on some pretty weak sauce, a lot of not so coherent eye witness testimony, reward for lamest is forks claiming simon stole jimmy cliffs band (recorded a song with them) lol
― lag∞n, Monday, 27 January 2014 16:20 (ten years ago) link
btw i just discovered via wikipedia that whitney houstons mom sings back up on mother and child reunion!
― lag∞n, Monday, 27 January 2014 16:21 (ten years ago) link
she wrote the song too. simon never credited her though. "I don't give a fucking shit" he said when she complained
― second set all dead boys covers (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Monday, 27 January 2014 18:26 (ten years ago) link
50 ways to lose the respect of your fellow artists
― keiji cretins (NickB), Monday, 27 January 2014 18:28 (ten years ago) link
youre not seeing both sides tho he did it in order to motivate her to have a super cool daughter
― lag∞n, Monday, 27 January 2014 18:28 (ten years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbhcMe4oN1A
― christmas candy bar (al leong), Monday, 27 January 2014 18:29 (ten years ago) link
paul simon is god and jesus literally
― lag∞n, Monday, 27 January 2014 18:29 (ten years ago) link
listened to this album 8 times today already. i don't care how it was made and how many people he was an asshole to, it's great.
― president of the people's republic of antarctica (Arctic Mindbath), Monday, 27 January 2014 18:40 (ten years ago) link
its so magical
― lag∞n, Monday, 27 January 2014 18:41 (ten years ago) link
I don't want no part of this crazy love
― Bryan Fairy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 27 January 2014 18:42 (ten years ago) link
would take any given 10 seconds of this album over all the holier-than-thou bullshit dave marsh has typed in his entire lifetime
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Monday, 27 January 2014 18:43 (ten years ago) link
paul and linda ronstadt sound nice on that one song, too bad they both owned beach front villas in sun city back in the 80s
― tylerw, Monday, 27 January 2014 18:44 (ten years ago) link
The controversy makes an average album bearable imo
― gelatinate mess (darraghmac), Monday, 27 January 2014 18:46 (ten years ago) link
"Under African Skies" is the only track that I'd accuse of colonialism but it's so damn pretty, especially Rondstadt's vocal.
― Bryan Fairy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 27 January 2014 18:46 (ten years ago) link
im going to kill u xp
― lag∞n, Monday, 27 January 2014 18:47 (ten years ago) link
i think the music of the album is great, but i think the production and simon's behaviour re: the boycott of south africa, etc, is at least a little problematic. any of you see the documentary that was recently-ish released about it?
also, bastard stole annie hall from alvy singer. NEVA FORGET.
― the "Weird Al" Yankovic of country music (stevie), Monday, 27 January 2014 18:50 (ten years ago) link