Radiohead - Kid A / Amnesiac Poll

*the band

my two penn'orth: this basically boils down to a fight between 4 or 5 Amnesiac tracks. Kid A is their weakest album other than the first two and In Rainbows. TKOL is hideously underrated. HTTT their best. Airbag EP also their best. winner of this poll, after deliberation: Dollars & Cents

*winner of my vote, even, lol

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmjyUce7kSU

my two penn'orth: this basically boils down to a fight between 4 or 5 Amnesiac tracks. Kid A is their weakest album other than the first two and In Rainbows. TKOL is hideously underrated. HTTT their best. Airbag EP also their best. winner of this poll, after deliberation: Dollars & Cents

― Know Scot! Free Getaway: Glen, Handa Island, Rua Reidh (imago)

I completely disagree with Kid A being their weakest album (also with D&C being the highlight song from the era) but I've never understood the hate towards TKOL either. I think it's one of their best albums and I kind of hope they continue exploring on this path but it seems unlikely at this point since noone seemed to give a shit.

always thought Amnesiac was a bit of a mess. Kid A was the first Radiohead album I bought as a kid and had a serious WTF reaction to it initially, but it became my favorite album of theirs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmH1403IJdg

^^^ First time "How to Disappear Completely" was played live. 1998 I think? This is my favorite version of any Radiohead song ever.

I think everything the 'head have done since 2001 has been 'a bit of a mess'. that's not to say i don't enjoy them, but pretty much every album they've done Kid A onwards has had an awkwardness, or is badly sequenced, or has an obtrusive element that doesn't quite make any of their releases feel as complete and satisfying as did OKC or even the Bends.

I'd agree with that except for In Rainbows, which flows as well as any record they've ever made, getting the anomalously noisy songs out of the way early and then settling into a nocturnal groove.

In Rainbows comes close to having a lovely sustained flow, but still it feels lopsided to me and that's mostly down to the 2 noisy songs / 8 mellow songs format. Feels more like a mini album with a 2-track single stuck on the front. Too often I skip straight to Nude when I put it on (despite quite liking 15 Step and Bodysnatchers).

I'd agree with that except for In Rainbows, which flows as well as any record they've ever made, getting the anomalously noisy songs out of the way early and then settling into a nocturnal groove.

This is exactly why every time I try to listen to In Rainbows as a complete album, I feel like it lasts for five thousand years.

I loved both of these albums so, so, much as an early 00s teenager. I mean, I would listen to Kid A literally every day. Amnesiac I didn't respond to as much then--I used to agree with the consensus that it's a poorly-sequenced hodgepodge compared to Kid A, but this thread prompted me to give it a re-listen, and though it isn't sonically homogeneous as Kid A, it still does have a coherent vibe/flow. It *works* as an album much more than people have given it credit for.

Anyway, my vote is for "Life in a Glasshouse." Sometimes, when I actually hear people say "well of course I'd like to stay around and chat," I'm tempted to chime in with "but someone's listening in." Thankfully I never do.

Aw, I should have voted for Glasshouse. I remember Thom playing a DJ session on Radio 1 where he opened witht he Louis Armstrong song that inspired it before mixing it into some messed up Brothomstates craziness.

it isn't sonically homogeneous as Kid A

Totally agree -- that's why it's always been down a notch for me. By the way, that "How to Disappear" live cut is also my favorite version of my favorite Radiohead song.

Here's the early early "Life in a Glass House" from Meeting People is Easy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ojzq2tWSMo

Aw, I should have voted for Glasshouse. I remember Thom playing a DJ session on Radio 1 where he opened witht he Louis Armstrong song that inspired it before mixing it into some messed up Brothomstates craziness.

― doglato dozzy (dog latin), martes 18 de febrero de 2014 14:17 (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

St. James Infirmary? That's the one it reminds me of.

I'm torn between Life in a Glasshouse and How to Disappear. The former might be one of their best songs but the later has one of my favorite string arrangements of all time.

I have listened to HTTT and IR so many times, and I can hardly remember anything about them. Raindrops and things that aren't there from HTTT, absolutely nothing from IR. And I'm a Radiohead fan. I don't get it.

Cosigned on HTTT being the best Radiohead album. Most variety, widest scope, more songs, bombass album artwork

I completely disagree with Kid A being their weakest album (also with D&C being the highlight song from the era) but I've never understood the hate towards TKOL either. I think it's one of their best albums and I kind of hope they continue exploring on this path but it seems unlikely at this point since noone seemed to give a shit.

― Moka, Tuesday, 18 February 2014 04:35 (16 hours ago) Permalink

Yeah, I could never agree with anyone that says Kid A is their weakest album. For me, it's one of their four best. The King of Limbs is a completely different story for me: I read a lot of criticism from fans that the album was too short, but in all honesty that's the very last criticism I'd level at the record. If anything, I generally think the material at its core isn't any great shakes, no matter how sonically interesting they attempted to make the arrangements.

I said Kid A was their fourth-weakest, if you read my post properly :P

In Rainbows is Radiohead-lite drudgery for the most part IMO - keep the first two and Reckoner, absolutely zero interest in the rest. TKOL much more spry & exciting by comparison (especially in terms of rhythm), even if Codex is kinda obviated by Pyramid Song

I think everything the 'head have done since 2001 has been 'a bit of a mess'. that's not to say i don't enjoy them, but pretty much every album they've done Kid A onwards has had an awkwardness, or is badly sequenced, or has an obtrusive element that doesn't quite make any of their releases feel as complete and satisfying as did OKC or even the Bends.

― doglato dozzy (dog latin), Tuesday, February 18, 2014 10:11 AM (11 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I'd agree with that except for In Rainbows, which flows as well as any record they've ever made, getting the anomalously noisy songs out of the way early and then settling into a nocturnal groove.

― What is wrong with songs? Absolutely nothing. Songs are great. (DL), Tuesday, February 18, 2014 10:32 AM (10 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Again, I do think Amnesiac couldn't have been any better given what tracks they had left over to work with. After picking out the 10 tracks for Kid A, they had all of this stuff they had to put together as best as they could in order to make another album from it, and I think they did the best job they possibly could have done. Indeed, it's still a mess, but it could have easily been so much messier.

Hail To The Thief just could do with a prune and an order re-shuffle, really. I've never really been too keen on 'Sail To The Moon' being the third track on the album, and I've personally never really thought much of 'We Suck Young Blood' or 'A Punchup At A Wedding'. I tried listening to Hail To The Thief in full the other day and found my interest beginning to fade in exactly the same place it has done since the album came out, which is around 'I Will'/'A Punchup At A Wedding'.

I can't fault the sequencing of In Rainbows at all.

TKOL much more spry & exciting by comparison (especially in terms of rhythm), even if Codex is kinda obviated by Pyramid Song

― Know Scot! Free Getaway: Glen, Handa Island, Rua Reidh (imago), Tuesday, February 18, 2014 9:34 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

The King of Limbs is only more "exciting" in the rhythm department. Take the rhythms and the sonics away and what you're left with a bunch of songs that are more lo-calorie Radiohead than anything on In Rainbows.

It's not really surprising that taking away the thing that makes the songs interesting makes them less interesting.

take the guitar out of the jimi hendrix experience

lol xp

It's not really surprising that taking away the thing that makes the songs interesting makes them less interesting.

― sent as gassed to onto rt dominance (DJP), Tuesday, February 18, 2014 9:43 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Absolutely, and this is the ultimate flaw of the record for me. The material just isn't good enough, as far as I'm concerned. If 'Morning Mr Magpie' had been attempted for In Rainbows, it would have been shown up for what it is: a mere scrap of a song with not a lot going for it.

you can say the exact same thing about "Hunting Bears" or "Like Spinning Plates", though; the arrangement is actually important to convey the song's intended effect

dude you can't separate different elements of such an integrated composition so cavalierly. morning mr magpie wouldn't have been WRITTEN for in rainbows, or at least sounded anything like that, because believe it or not it was the result of a writing process that synthesised its various elements to fit a single vision, each of which depended on the rest for support. you're being a bit ridiculous tbh

take the guitar out of the jimi hendrix experience

― Know Scot! Free Getaway: Glen, Handa Island, Rua Reidh (imago), Tuesday, February 18, 2014 9:44 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Indeed, strip the guitar away from 'The Wind Cries Mary', and leave the bass and drums and the song would still shine through, because it's that strong. You'd still be able to hear just how well-written that song actually is, even without the guitar.

dude you can't separate different elements of such an integrated composition so cavalierly. morning mr magpie wouldn't have been WRITTEN for in rainbows, or at least sounded anything like that, because believe it or not it was the result of a writing process that synthesised its various elements to fit a single vision, each of which depended on the rest for support. you're being a bit ridiculous tbh

― Know Scot! Free Getaway: Glen, Handa Island, Rua Reidh (imago), Tuesday, February 18, 2014 9:51 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

'Morning Mr Magpie' was written around the time of Hail To The Thief.

well, it wasn't on that album was it? clearly they weren't happy with it until its TKOL iteration - when it finally fit the vision. perhaps I should have said that it wouldn't have been RECORDED for IR because they weren't quite in the right place to make it work then (and too right, they were more concerned with making drippy indie ballads lol)

you can say the exact same thing about "Hunting Bears" or "Like Spinning Plates", though; the arrangement is actually important to convey the song's intended effect

― sent as gassed to onto rt dominance (DJP), Tuesday, February 18, 2014 9:49 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Even though 'Like Spinning Plates' was the product of its arrangement, it still stands up incredibly well when removed from the shackles of its arrangement, as the solo piano version on I Might Be Wrong clearly displays; there is a song there, and a very good one.

'shackles of its arrangement' is some insane form vs content madness that I cannot endorse, sorry. you're right that the live version of LSP is amazing but as far as I'm concerned it's a completely different song

oh and fyi Punchup At A Wedding is one of Radiohead's best songs ever. my takeaway from this is that we look for very different things in our Radiohead

When it comes to the crunch: a turd is a turd, no matter how wonderfully it's polished.

what is the 'song' that is subsequently 'polished' by its 'arrangement'? is not the 'song' the sum total of its recording, including arrangement?

c'mon, what is the original song - is it the lead instrument melody + the lyrics? the bassline? enlighten me

To my understanding, the song itself is the composition--the chords, melody (bass and treble) and lyrics that provide the backbone of the recording. The arrangement is the dressing--the strings or the synthesizer or the sound effects that flesh out the recording of the song. In the case of "Like Spinning Plates," the solo piano version represents the basest form of the song, which I imagine was the "original" version that Yorke showed to the band in the recording sessions.

nah but LSP was 'discovered' by reversing an I Will demo so like

accept that 'arrangement' can be a euphemistic term for any melodic gussying-up, but it certainly doesn't cover the rhythm section. 'composition' is really the whole thing imo

Voodoo chili is mostly OTM: generally the core of a song is a melody (or melodies) fitted to a chord progression (or series of chord progressions). This could be a melody played on a 'lead instrument' (if it's an instrumental), or it could a vocal melody (or top-line, fitted with a lyric or not, in the case of Pink Floyd's 'The Great Gig In The Sky'). Then you take the core of the song and work out an arrangement.

Yes, while the arrangement can contain hooks in themselves which embellish the core of the song: rhythmic hooks, bass hooks etc. In the case of 'Morning Mr Magpie', it's that clipped guitar riff that runs throughout the song. But if you ain't got a great core there, you have the equivalent of a well-wrapped gift containing nothing but air.

nah but LSP was 'discovered' by reversing an I Will demo so like

accept that 'arrangement' can be a euphemistic term for any melodic gussying-up, but it certainly doesn't cover the rhythm section. 'composition' is really the whole thing imo

― Know Scot! Free Getaway: Glen, Handa Island, Rua Reidh (imago), Tuesday, February 18, 2014 10:32 PM (56 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Indeed, but by reversing the early version of 'I Will', it gave Thom Yorke a chord progression to write a top-line to, which isn't an unusual starting point for any song; it's only unusual in the sense that the backing track was already recorded. The decision to have the vocals forwards-but-backwards was an arrangement decision, borne out of the fact that the track was running backwards. He could have easily have sung the song forwards without tampering with it and the song still would have stood up. If Thom hadn't found a worthy top-line to go with the chord progression, the song would have sucked.

er, feels like you guys are treading dangerously close to Geir territory here.

here's a nice li'l homework assignment for ya Turrican: http://open.spotify.com/track/16S7qpNWHl3714n94oZnHT

^^^ostensibly indie-rock guitar band. wonder what you make of it. I happen to think it's fucking amazing

(Electrelane - Business Or Otherwise, for those without Spotify)

protest vote for none of this shit

er, feels like you guys are treading dangerously close to Geir territory here.

― Karl Malone, Tuesday, February 18, 2014 10:42 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

God, no. Absolutely not, and I'd hate for anyone to think that that was the case. Geir deeply hated Kid A for a start, and I don't.

In fact, this is reminding me of what I found so confounding about the general reaction to Kid A "back in the day"... because looking at the tracklisting, every track on the album has a strong core to it. It's a well-produced and superbly arranged album, but it isn't lacking in strong songs or pieces of music that have a strong core to them. Even 'Treefingers' has a structured chord progression.

'Morning Bell' is a case in point: on both Kid A and Amnesiac, it's attempted in two different ways. On Kid A, it's in 5/4 and has the "drum riff" in a more of a "band" type of arrangement, whereas on Amnesiac it's in 4/4 and more mournful. Of course, I prefer the version on Kid A, but the core of the song is so strong that it works either way.

since when has deems obtained to that wide-eyed experimental sensibility that geir was famous for

i am curious about the outcome of this poll. it will surely be a landslide victory for "pyramid song", no?

I have absolutely no idea how this poll is going to go, tbh! I expect 'Pyramid Song' to be up there, though... not sure about a landslide victory.

Strictly speaking, the "song" is the lead melody and the lyrics. Everything else, including the chord progression, falls under arrangement (which is partially why organists will often do alternate harmonizations for the final verse of a hymn that the congregation and choir are singing in unison).

Certain melodies lend themselves to certain chord progressions, often to the point where distinguishing between them is unreasonable, but if you want to boil a song down to it's essence you only really need to care about the melody. Part of why this type of essentialism doesn't work for me is one of my favorite songs is Depeche Mode's "Never Let Me Down Again", which is two alternating notes that gain color and interest based on the chord progression it sits on top of and how the melodic note plays a different function in each chord of the arrangement. Saying that NLMDA doesn't work without the chord progression misses the huge point that the entire piece was built around the chord progression and the overall gestalt is what makes it so powerful musically.