non-ilmer on my facebook after i posted this:
"NYT trolling ILM."
― scott seward, Friday, 4 April 2014 16:30 (ten years ago) link
ryan otm about the "keiji haino" thing. This article's stance isn't "Hey, it's a big, wide world out there with tons of non-charting music that might be awesome!" Austerlitz instead takes the ever popular stance of "What, so I"m not allowed to like Springsteen anymore and still be cool? What the hell?!"
I mean, The National album he mentioned hit #20 on the Pazz n Jop poll referenced at the top of the article. The idea that it's "kryptonite" in the current critical discourse is a little silly.
― good and relaxing like akon dont matter (intheblanks), Friday, 4 April 2014 16:30 (ten years ago) link
ahahahaha omg lol @ his ballot
this truly is the vanity of not getting a decent pop critic job offer isn't it
― halber mensch halber keks (imago), Friday, 4 April 2014 16:31 (ten years ago) link
Unless he really thinks that #20 is so low for that National album that it amounts to a slap in the face to sophisticated music fans everywhere
― good and relaxing like akon dont matter (intheblanks), Friday, 4 April 2014 16:32 (ten years ago) link
every "my music is deeper and more complicated than yours" stance is open to that kind of outflanking tho, which is why it's an idiot move in the first place
― twistent consistent (Noodle Vague), Friday, 4 April 2014 16:32 (ten years ago) link
I thought P&J stopped being vaunted when the voice got bought and canned everyone
― have a nice blood/orange bitters cocktail (mh), Friday, 4 April 2014 16:34 (ten years ago) link
It's like he starts his article with a bad assumption and then rolls from there
i'm probably one of 2 or 3 ILMers who ever dares to try to put a stick in poptimism's whirring spokes, and i'll give ciara vs the national to ciara in a blaze of glorious & righteous truth
― halber mensch halber keks (imago), Friday, 4 April 2014 16:37 (ten years ago) link
the national is like the worst possible example I can think of if you want to make some kind of case for more "sophisticated" and "difficult" music deserving more attention relative to pop.
― ביטקוין (Hurting 2), Friday, 4 April 2014 16:38 (ten years ago) link
steven hyden at the top of his similar ballots list deeply unsurprising
― balls, Friday, 4 April 2014 16:38 (ten years ago) link
lmaoooo really
― maura, Friday, 4 April 2014 16:41 (ten years ago) link
He also wrote: http://www.amazon.com/Money-Nothing-History-Beatles-Stripes/dp/0826429580
― Bryan Fairy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 4 April 2014 16:41 (ten years ago) link
You are watching as a history of the moving image unfolds onscreen, but this history will not take note of D.W. Griffith or Jean Renoir, nor will King Kong or Jaws make an appearance
the national plays arenas! a movie about them just came out!
― kaygee, Friday, 4 April 2014 16:45 (ten years ago) link
well that's my weekend sorted
― twistent consistent (Noodle Vague), Friday, 4 April 2014 16:47 (ten years ago) link
Alfred is killing it. Don't know what the heck lj is on about.
― Tompall Tudor (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 4 April 2014 16:51 (ten years ago) link
The paragraph where he blames poptimism on piracy makes zero sense.
― Herbie Handcock (Murgatroid), Friday, 4 April 2014 16:52 (ten years ago) link
The dissolution of a shared musical mainstream means that my Speedy Ortiz or Ka may be gobbledygook to someone whose musical hero is Sky Ferreira.
― Bryan Fairy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 4 April 2014 16:52 (ten years ago) link
― twistent consistent (Noodle Vague), Friday, April 4, 2014 12:32 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
^^^^^^
― some dude, Friday, 4 April 2014 16:54 (ten years ago) link
Dude needs new friends.
― maura, Friday, 4 April 2014 16:54 (ten years ago) link
i hope they never stop publishing articles like this
― coops all on coops tbh (crüt), Friday, 4 April 2014 17:00 (ten years ago) link
Haha, crüt otm
― Tompall Tudor (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 4 April 2014 17:00 (ten years ago) link
ILX will be down for a few hours this evening (GMT) for maintenance by, oh, let's say ... Moe
― Tompall Tudor (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 4 April 2014 17:19 (ten years ago) link
at least we now have a serious contender for 2014 worst. no faux-cutesy blog post this. the paper of record!
― scott seward, Friday, 4 April 2014 17:28 (ten years ago) link
the fundamental misunderstanding of this piece is the idea that pop criticism isn't "specialized"
i think this guy is conflating, like, people writing about whether lorde or miley cyrus or katy perry is racist (thinkpiece culture, basically) with actual engagement w/ the music aside from line reading a ubiquitous single. pitching pieces about pop music is not a way to make a living.
― le goon (J0rdan S.), Friday, 4 April 2014 17:35 (ten years ago) link
Case in point regarding two artists he mentions: As far as I can tell, late period Strokes sell more records than Sky Ferreira, regardless of "poptimist" cred.
The whole piece has no real acknowledgment that writers are maybe not just striking a stance, that maybe they feel passionately about the Beyonce record or the Sky Ferreira record. The tone of the whole thing is, "C'mon, you guys don't really like this dreck, you're obviously too smart for it! This is clearly just 'penance' on some level."
― good and relaxing like akon dont matter (intheblanks), Friday, 4 April 2014 17:40 (ten years ago) link
i'm really sorry half of FT's mission has gotten lost in later discussions of "poptimism"
The goal was to treat pop music like "serious" music, but _also_ to write about serious music "like pop music", c.f. tom's articles on Charlemagne Palestine, etc. and plenty of things that Sinkah pushed later on, etc.
To look _just_ at the call for a different treatment of pop is to miss the point entirely. Its a call for a different notion of critical discourse.
― wat is teh waht (s.clover), Friday, 4 April 2014 17:43 (ten years ago) link
and like lool at living in a pitchfork dominated era and thinking 'poptimism' (however defined) somehow won
― wat is teh waht (s.clover), Friday, 4 April 2014 17:44 (ten years ago) link
i'm probably one of 2 or 3 ILMers who ever dares to try to put a stick in poptimism's whirring spokes, and i'll give ciara vs the national to ciara in a blaze of glorious & righteous truth― halber mensch halber keks (imago), Friday, April 4, 2014 11:37 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Um do you not read like all the posts that happen about all kinds of non mainstream pop music every single day? Or are you suggesting like everyone on, say, the ilx brigade thread should be butting in to Beyonce threads telling everyone to listen to Robbie Basho?
Actually though I'd love to make lex listen to Basho actually
― Raptain Chillips (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 4 April 2014 17:46 (ten years ago) link
Rule of thumb: If you're writing a big generalising piece about the problem with music criticism then there's at least a 50% chance that the problem with music criticism is you.
― What is wrong with songs? Absolutely nothing. Songs are great. (DL), Friday, 4 April 2014 17:52 (ten years ago) link
ewing still underrecognized as critic shockah
― j., Friday, 4 April 2014 17:54 (ten years ago) link
Well he hasn't been employed by a big-name pub in North America. But, you know, how could you accuse someone of having a bunch of Beggars and Columbia records in his year-end top 10 of not looking hard enough?
― maura, Friday, 4 April 2014 17:59 (ten years ago) link
link some robbie basho here!
― halber mensch halber keks (imago), Friday, 4 April 2014 18:03 (ten years ago) link
all music is garbage and pop culture is garbage and the internet is garbage and human life is garbage just sayin
― coops all on coops tbh (crüt), Friday, 4 April 2014 18:05 (ten years ago) link
i think 'published' critics who obviously have no qualms about poking around ilm ought to pay a tax for every piece they place that shows they learned nothing and contributed nothing
― j., Friday, 4 April 2014 18:05 (ten years ago) link
I'm losing my edge.I'm losing my edge.I can hear the footsteps every night on the decks.But I was there.I was there at the first indie rock thread on ILM.I was there when the noize piece hit pitas.I was there.
― wat is teh waht (s.clover), Friday, 4 April 2014 18:32 (ten years ago) link
ground zero poptimist manifesto: http://freakytrigger.co.uk/ft/2000/01/do-you-feel-real-and-if-so-id-like-to-know/
in retrospect less a disciplinary matrix than a consultant's quadrant chart, but nonetheless...
― wat is teh waht (s.clover), Friday, 4 April 2014 18:37 (ten years ago) link
who ever dares to try to put a stick in poptimism's whirring spokesDon't know about sticks, but there a might have been a baseball card here and there.
― Tompall Tudor (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 4 April 2014 18:56 (ten years ago) link
Sorry, rounders.
Recasting the 'rockism/popism' discourse -- and music critical discourse -- for 2005 (and beyond)
― Tompall Tudor (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 4 April 2014 18:57 (ten years ago) link
That NYT piece is like a bunch of people who hate pop and want to keep it in its critically-reviled box having their very own "Feminism? That's all very well and good, but what about men? Where's the men's rights movement, eh, eh, eh?" moment.
― oh, boy, .GIF! That's where I'm a Viking! (edwardo), Friday, 4 April 2014 19:01 (ten years ago) link
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/85/TWWL.jpg
― Tompall Tudor (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 4 April 2014 19:03 (ten years ago) link
pop music is not feminism
― coops all on coops tbh (crüt), Friday, 4 April 2014 19:28 (ten years ago) link
Yes, that's exactly what I meant in that sentence. Definitely.
― oh, boy, .GIF! That's where I'm a Viking! (edwardo), Friday, 4 April 2014 19:33 (ten years ago) link
yep
― coops all on coops tbh (crüt), Friday, 4 April 2014 19:34 (ten years ago) link
true but I don't think it's a coincidence that the description of critics he uses are shrill cheerleaders who shout. (liking speedy ortiz doesn't negate this)
― katherine, Friday, 4 April 2014 19:51 (ten years ago) link
This article reads like an elaborate self-justification which in the writer's heart of hearts he knows is wrong.
― Tim F, Friday, 4 April 2014 21:10 (ten years ago) link
Scott Seward Greenfield Ma 1 hour agoIf you are young and considering writing about music for fun or profit, read this piece very carefully. AND THEN NEVER WRITE LIKE THIS. Or think like this, if you can help it. Think harder and listen to a LOT of music. All kinds. From every era. And read a ton. Anything you can get your hands on. Read and listen as much as humanly possible. Listen closely. REALLY listen. Inspiration can come from the most unlikely places.
― scott seward, Saturday, 5 April 2014 04:17 (ten years ago) link
i couldn't help myself...
UM, is that freakytrigger essay Sterling posted like widely read and acknowledged and/or anything? it says "457 views" and it is really crazy and great and I wish I'd read it ten years ago, five years ago, or yesterday
― poopsites attract (flamboyant goon tie included), Saturday, 5 April 2014 05:26 (ten years ago) link