Rule of thumb: If you're writing a big generalising piece about the problem with music criticism then there's at least a 50% chance that the problem with music criticism is you.
― What is wrong with songs? Absolutely nothing. Songs are great. (DL), Friday, 4 April 2014 17:52 (ten years ago) link
ewing still underrecognized as critic shockah
― j., Friday, 4 April 2014 17:54 (ten years ago) link
Well he hasn't been employed by a big-name pub in North America. But, you know, how could you accuse someone of having a bunch of Beggars and Columbia records in his year-end top 10 of not looking hard enough?
― maura, Friday, 4 April 2014 17:59 (ten years ago) link
link some robbie basho here!
― halber mensch halber keks (imago), Friday, 4 April 2014 18:03 (ten years ago) link
all music is garbage and pop culture is garbage and the internet is garbage and human life is garbage just sayin
― coops all on coops tbh (crüt), Friday, 4 April 2014 18:05 (ten years ago) link
i think 'published' critics who obviously have no qualms about poking around ilm ought to pay a tax for every piece they place that shows they learned nothing and contributed nothing
― j., Friday, 4 April 2014 18:05 (ten years ago) link
I'm losing my edge.I'm losing my edge.I can hear the footsteps every night on the decks.But I was there.I was there at the first indie rock thread on ILM.I was there when the noize piece hit pitas.I was there.
― wat is teh waht (s.clover), Friday, 4 April 2014 18:32 (ten years ago) link
ground zero poptimist manifesto: http://freakytrigger.co.uk/ft/2000/01/do-you-feel-real-and-if-so-id-like-to-know/
in retrospect less a disciplinary matrix than a consultant's quadrant chart, but nonetheless...
― wat is teh waht (s.clover), Friday, 4 April 2014 18:37 (ten years ago) link
who ever dares to try to put a stick in poptimism's whirring spokesDon't know about sticks, but there a might have been a baseball card here and there.
― Tompall Tudor (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 4 April 2014 18:56 (ten years ago) link
Sorry, rounders.
Recasting the 'rockism/popism' discourse -- and music critical discourse -- for 2005 (and beyond)
― Tompall Tudor (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 4 April 2014 18:57 (ten years ago) link
That NYT piece is like a bunch of people who hate pop and want to keep it in its critically-reviled box having their very own "Feminism? That's all very well and good, but what about men? Where's the men's rights movement, eh, eh, eh?" moment.
― oh, boy, .GIF! That's where I'm a Viking! (edwardo), Friday, 4 April 2014 19:01 (ten years ago) link
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/85/TWWL.jpg
― Tompall Tudor (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 4 April 2014 19:03 (ten years ago) link
pop music is not feminism
― coops all on coops tbh (crüt), Friday, 4 April 2014 19:28 (ten years ago) link
Yes, that's exactly what I meant in that sentence. Definitely.
― oh, boy, .GIF! That's where I'm a Viking! (edwardo), Friday, 4 April 2014 19:33 (ten years ago) link
yep
― coops all on coops tbh (crüt), Friday, 4 April 2014 19:34 (ten years ago) link
true but I don't think it's a coincidence that the description of critics he uses are shrill cheerleaders who shout. (liking speedy ortiz doesn't negate this)
― katherine, Friday, 4 April 2014 19:51 (ten years ago) link
This article reads like an elaborate self-justification which in the writer's heart of hearts he knows is wrong.
― Tim F, Friday, 4 April 2014 21:10 (ten years ago) link
Scott Seward Greenfield Ma 1 hour agoIf you are young and considering writing about music for fun or profit, read this piece very carefully. AND THEN NEVER WRITE LIKE THIS. Or think like this, if you can help it. Think harder and listen to a LOT of music. All kinds. From every era. And read a ton. Anything you can get your hands on. Read and listen as much as humanly possible. Listen closely. REALLY listen. Inspiration can come from the most unlikely places.
― scott seward, Saturday, 5 April 2014 04:17 (ten years ago) link
i couldn't help myself...
UM, is that freakytrigger essay Sterling posted like widely read and acknowledged and/or anything? it says "457 views" and it is really crazy and great and I wish I'd read it ten years ago, five years ago, or yesterday
― poopsites attract (flamboyant goon tie included), Saturday, 5 April 2014 05:26 (ten years ago) link
FT migrated from one place to another - Blogger to Wordpress iirc- a few years ago, and a few of us copied everything across, article by article. The hits count you see there today means the hits since then; I don't know that anyone bothered to make a note of the figures for hits up to that point. If I happen across an obtuse shepherd I'll ask.
― Tim, Saturday, 5 April 2014 10:48 (ten years ago) link
I've inwardly made a ???-face any time Lex has talked about "realness" :( I wish I'd read that essay first
― poopsites attract (flamboyant goon tie included), Saturday, 5 April 2014 12:50 (ten years ago) link
Only 457 people read freakytrigger but all of them etc. etc.
― ביטקוין (Hurting 2), Saturday, 5 April 2014 17:18 (ten years ago) link
lol scott
― have a nice blood/orange bitters cocktail (mh), Saturday, 5 April 2014 17:20 (ten years ago) link
B-b-but...
― Tompall Tudor (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 5 April 2014 17:22 (ten years ago) link
re the FT post, now it's 804 views :-D
and yeah, the counter started from zero at some point after migrating to WP which was many years after it was first published - so it's languished in the blogging long tail. gonna promote it to our front page 'featured posts' for a bit.
― Britain's Obtusest Shepherd (Alan), Saturday, 5 April 2014 18:12 (ten years ago) link
i'm glad someone agrees with me...
https://twitter.com/benratliff
― scott seward, Saturday, 5 April 2014 19:02 (ten years ago) link
thumbs_up_mr_natural_smiley.jpg
― Tompall Tudor (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 5 April 2014 19:04 (ten years ago) link
I'm a big
― Tim, Saturday, 5 April 2014 23:19 (ten years ago) link
It's true that I am a big. But why I, or my trousers, chose to make that clear on this thread is not obvious. As you were.
― Tim, Saturday, 5 April 2014 23:29 (ten years ago) link
Your big big pants
― Ned Raggett, Sunday, 6 April 2014 02:43 (ten years ago) link
Who will be the 1000th reader of that piece. There should be a prize, anyone has 20p to spare?
The poptimism 'oh where has it gone?' discussion and that NPR blog sorta mesh into one.
Certainly -- this is waayy back in the day -- ILM had pop as driver for posts and discussion but also an openness to everything on the margins and beyond, which is why there are threads on any pop group, indie group or Robert Ashley and the like in new answers. This is a good thing, despite all the fragmentation that has always been there.
What hasn't happened is that its never been an environment where non-experts -- i.e. people that like music but don't have record collections could come in and talk about it with not even that much of a commitment or stake in it. So an equivalent of NPR person could not post here, would get shouted at and would probably go away.
Yes it was changing the discourse but also to include a wider set of attitudes and expertise. It could only grow with others, and in that sense it was a disaster.
― xyzzzz__, Sunday, 6 April 2014 12:37 (ten years ago) link
a few non-experts have worked on their expertise tbf, and a few are still proudly non-experts :D
― halber mensch halber keks (imago), Sunday, 6 April 2014 12:47 (ten years ago) link
'experts' needs to be more fully defined. Its just as much about non-listening or talking about a time when you loved music and now don't, for example. I think there are a few of those on 'Popular', where a new fashion/scene came in and something in them 'broke'. But something is there, a desire to participate and talk, not least because you are surrounded by people in your daily life that still listen and feel importance.
― xyzzzz__, Sunday, 6 April 2014 13:13 (ten years ago) link
i shared that fake-real taxonomy with some friends last night and they seemed very convinced. a million views by sundown.
― Merdeyeux, Sunday, 6 April 2014 14:00 (ten years ago) link
Merdeyeux and his Million Mates
― robocop ELF (seandalai), Sunday, 6 April 2014 15:09 (ten years ago) link
"its never been an environment where non-experts -- i.e. people that like music but don't have record collections could come in and talk about it with not even that much of a commitment or stake in it"
Totally disagree, that describes me to a tee and I love ILM, even post in it some.
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Sunday, 6 April 2014 23:43 (ten years ago) link
what the shit is that NYT piece
i should be glad i was offline all weekend, right?
have you all killed austerlitz yet?
― lex pretend, Monday, 7 April 2014 15:08 (ten years ago) link
The narcissism of small differences there is bizarre. I could understand if he was a classic rock bore but his Pazz & Jop ballot includes Sky Ferreira, MIA, Daft Punk and Haim (the last two being poptimist hotbed ILM's top single and album of 2013) so I don't even know why he's pissed off. He likes Sky and Haim but not Lorde or Icona Pop? You can't squeeze an argument into a gap that narrow.
― What is wrong with songs? Absolutely nothing. Songs are great. (DL), Monday, 7 April 2014 15:22 (ten years ago) link
he likes guitars
― have a nice blood/orange bitters cocktail (mh), Monday, 7 April 2014 15:23 (ten years ago) link
he doesn't carehe loves it
― I made a grave mistake with my balloon at the end (forksclovetofu), Monday, 7 April 2014 16:11 (ten years ago) link
lol
― some dude, Monday, 7 April 2014 16:19 (ten years ago) link
I am a proud expert on every subject i discuss on ilx
― très hip (Treeship), Monday, 7 April 2014 16:53 (ten years ago) link
― waterbabies (waterface), Monday, 7 April 2014 16:53 (ten years ago) link
My guess is he thinks Sky and Haim "transcend" pop through craft and emotion, whereas the others are generic or mercenary or shallow or something.
― good and relaxing like akon dont matter (intheblanks), Monday, 7 April 2014 17:18 (ten years ago) link
hey likes frank ocean too so it can't just be guitars
― Raptain Chillips (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 7 April 2014 17:21 (ten years ago) link
This pop, R&B and hip hop is fine but that stuff, oh dear me no, I need to write a NYT essay about the cultural poison of people who like that.
― What is wrong with songs? Absolutely nothing. Songs are great. (DL), Monday, 7 April 2014 17:34 (ten years ago) link
Ok this article was kind of bad but you guys are strawmanning the shit out of it.
― ביטקוין (Hurting 2), Monday, 7 April 2014 18:40 (ten years ago) link
Like I don't think he's taking issue with any particular artist being written about/voted for, he's just arguing the balance overall has shifted in a direction he doesn't exactly like.
― ביטקוין (Hurting 2), Monday, 7 April 2014 18:59 (ten years ago) link