Tell me more about "normal people", ILX.
― Herbie Handcock (Murgatroid), Tuesday, 15 April 2014 21:22 (ten years ago) link
they listen to Stockhausen and Albert Ayler
― smhphony orchestra (crüt), Tuesday, 15 April 2014 21:23 (ten years ago) link
but only from their husband's stupid record collections
― ביטקוין (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 15 April 2014 21:27 (ten years ago) link
me and Hurting at the same place age- and interest-wise it sounds like
― How dare you tarnish the reputation of Turturro's yodel (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 15 April 2014 21:31 (ten years ago) link
do you like your husband's stupid record collection?
― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 15 April 2014 21:32 (ten years ago) link
well I was referring to this part in particular:
I also just don't feel as much desire to force myself to consider music that doesn't appeal to me. I mean I still have curiosity and will still give almost anything at least one listen, but I just don't have the time and energy for the sophisticated, all-embracing tolerance she suggests. I'm perfectly willing to concede that I might be missing something interesting about the way Miley Cyrus's presence alters the meaning of a song written for Rihanna, I just don't have a reason to care.
― How dare you tarnish the reputation of Turturro's yodel (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 15 April 2014 21:35 (ten years ago) link
esp when the particulars in question (in this case Miley and Rihanna) are clearly not designed to speak to me or anything I care about.
― How dare you tarnish the reputation of Turturro's yodel (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 15 April 2014 21:36 (ten years ago) link
right, I mean if you want me to think about the fact that they're out to sell records, well they're not out to sell records to me!
― ביטקוין (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 15 April 2014 21:43 (ten years ago) link
to be clear I'm not complaining that there's not enough cultural media out there catering to the tastes of aging straight white dudes, it's just that in general pop music is not really aimed at me. that's cool, I don't have a problem with it, but don't expect me to care about it or strawman me with various accusations of prejudice if I'm not interested.
― How dare you tarnish the reputation of Turturro's yodel (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 15 April 2014 21:46 (ten years ago) link
so i was right. cool.
― waterbabies (waterface), Tuesday, 15 April 2014 21:48 (ten years ago) link
katherine is really a great poster and I really hope one day she stops with the passive aggressive god-SORRY-i-guess-i-should-just-jump-off-a-CLIFF schtick
― forum enthusiast (wins), Tuesday, 15 April 2014 21:49 (ten years ago) link
No amount of intellectualizing is ever going to make me enjoy MC. Lots of the point people bring up also have to do with authenticity, but a pop authenticity. The idea that she is "Doing whatever she wants" is some form of pop authenticity. The idea that the process of manufacturing pop product in itself somehow lends validity to it is another instance of pop authenticity. Dividing the audience into a binary of "Haters" and an un-labelled group encompassing fans, casual mainstream music listeners, and sophisticated/post-rockist pop critics alike is pop authenticity.
― ▴▲ ▴TH3CR()$BY$H()W▴▲ ▴ (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 15 April 2014 21:50 (ten years ago) link
I'd say the odds are against it but I have no idea what you're referring to so whatever
― How dare you tarnish the reputation of Turturro's yodel (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 15 April 2014 21:52 (ten years ago) link
dnftt
― scott seward, Tuesday, 15 April 2014 22:36 (ten years ago) link
please keep feeding the troll, it's kind of funny
― Wahaca Flocka Flame (DJP), Tuesday, 15 April 2014 23:31 (ten years ago) link
apologies for being passive-aggressive, it wasn't intended that way but obviously intention isn't really the thing
― katherine, Wednesday, 16 April 2014 00:12 (ten years ago) link
anyway anyone who claims there is no longer a critical mass of people who are worried about drum machines/rap/Beyonce in 2014 should spend the next year or two telling people they write about miley cyrus and really liked her album (doesn't matter if you did or not) and see what kind of reactions you get
― katherine, Wednesday, 16 April 2014 00:15 (ten years ago) link
The problem with that thought experiment is that there are a myriad of reasons to dislike the Miley Cyrus album beyond being a rockist.
― Wahaca Flocka Flame (DJP), Wednesday, 16 April 2014 00:29 (ten years ago) link
Like, it's perfectly reasonable to be a fan of hip-hop influenced pop music and think "We Can't Stop" is braying, misshapen garbage; disliking that song and its album does not actually mean that all you want to listen to is Neil Young.
― Wahaca Flocka Flame (DJP), Wednesday, 16 April 2014 00:33 (ten years ago) link
katherine OTM, frustrated with this entire discussion, most non-writers I know have no idea about these terms and what they are, and a NYT article is gonna be many people's entry point, it's important to comment and rebut etc. etc. instead of assuming that everybody in the world is on a page, up to date-- you can't assume those who aren't aware of these terms are "old" and/or not into music writing.
― flamboyant goon tie included, Wednesday, 16 April 2014 00:37 (ten years ago) link
But disliking this album sometimes meant that you wanted to listen to Imagine Dragons.
xpost
― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 16 April 2014 00:38 (ten years ago) link
Well... no. I wanted to listen to Kelly Rowland.
― Wahaca Flocka Flame (DJP), Wednesday, 16 April 2014 00:42 (ten years ago) link
(also: Lorde)
― Wahaca Flocka Flame (DJP), Wednesday, 16 April 2014 00:44 (ten years ago) link
brb gonna listen to "Kisses Down Low" for the 15,345th time.
― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 16 April 2014 00:48 (ten years ago) link
this spectacle of people (mostly straight white men of a certain age) angry that we treat music made with drum machines, or for dance floors, or with rapping (unless it's 'political'), or by Beyoncé with the same respect and depth of thought we'd devote to anthems sung by bands of guys with guitars.
this feels pretty strawmanny especially on ILM where a lot of the anti-orthodoxy views wrt to pop vs. rockism are pretty distinctly influenced by white guys and sometimes and former posters of a certain age like xhuxk and kogan etc etc
― Juelz Fantano (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 16 April 2014 01:31 (ten years ago) link
Dear flamboyant goon tie which Lorde song were you talking abt being abt REAL ROCK being REAL MUSIC
― sonic thedgehod (albvivertine), Wednesday, 16 April 2014 01:32 (ten years ago) link
her seger cover
― Juelz Fantano (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 16 April 2014 01:44 (ten years ago) link
i am totally listening to the Steve Miller Band right now. and the BC bud has really kicked in. shout out to the Hudson's Bay Company.
― scott seward, Wednesday, 16 April 2014 01:50 (ten years ago) link
Well, jokes on me for wading in here, but "rockism" doesn't need to only apply to rock music, obv. Rockism imo is the dead puppy borne out of performative music practice, i.e. "people playing things", oldest trick in the book, you've got tonnes of people walking away from "learning instruments" with a taste for music that is visibly performed, and an appreciation for apparent skill in that performance. If you think that this is out-of-style, you just need to check out I dunno Imagine Dragons or Clean Bandit or Youtube videos of people playing things-- and rockism happens when some twisted/young/dumb/frustrated individuals (many-of-them powerful) will take this taste for performed music and twist it into "Miley sucks and is for children". Discussions about "the authenticity of a performance" are going to always exist while people enjoy performed music. Many of Lorde's artistic decisions, i.e. the format of her live instrumentation (stripped down, all sound sources visibly "performed"), the monologues she delivers onstage, the lyrics of "Royals", suggest that she comes from a background in performative arts and values things like authenticity. Same goes for The XX. Would never accuse either act of fetishizing anything but think they value many of the same things that so-called rockists do.
― flamboyant goon tie included, Wednesday, 16 April 2014 02:03 (ten years ago) link
Ok that makes sense, thanks. Authenticity/honesty of some kind's p universally valued tho, isn't it? Like, how many beloved/critically discussed performers don't give a shit abt it (Dean Martin? The guy frm Limp Bizkit, maybe?), and do their audiences know?
― sonic thedgehod (albvivertine), Wednesday, 16 April 2014 02:15 (ten years ago) link
Sure sure but I'm looking for some Germanic extended version of the word that is the "implied evidence of authorship and/or musicianship" flavour of authenticity
― flamboyant goon tie included, Wednesday, 16 April 2014 02:17 (ten years ago) link
Well, Miley sucks and is for children. No one ever actually refutes this statement.
― ביטקוין (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 16 April 2014 02:18 (ten years ago) link
Oh no, as opposed to Serious music for adult men
― brimstead, Wednesday, 16 April 2014 02:20 (ten years ago) link
metal is for children
― brimstead, Tuesday, April 15, 2014 10:20 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
wait a second, you are expanding my mind here
― ביטקוין (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 16 April 2014 02:21 (ten years ago) link
my gosh, ten years on ILM and now thanks to you I finally get it
adults listen to the news on the way in to work, the rest of us are children, thank god
― j., Wednesday, 16 April 2014 02:24 (ten years ago) link
Serious music for adult men
perfect Nick Lowe sequel
― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 16 April 2014 02:27 (ten years ago) link
Adulthood is a social construct. I listen to Raffi on the way to work.
― ביטקוין (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 16 April 2014 02:31 (ten years ago) link
The guy frm Limp Bizkit, maybe?
no the dudes from bizkit are serious abt what they do and Wes is a big nerd ass guitar mag zappa type dude they probably would talk yr fuckin ear off about how Tool are the greatest musicians that ever walked the earth and shit
― Juelz Fantano (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 16 April 2014 02:32 (ten years ago) link
When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away cyrusish things.
― wat is teh waht (s.clover), Wednesday, 16 April 2014 02:35 (ten years ago) link
basically ppl holding up bores like the black keys as some ideal of real music and ppl write about some crappy miley song like it's fuckin ulysses are both equally annoying
the only other thing i have to say is that in that one thing the writer says that everyone should have an assignment to have an opinion about a jason derulo album that came out this week and if it's all the same to you i think i'll drink a bottle of scotch with a fistful of ambien and wait for the sweet relief of death instead
― Juelz Fantano (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 16 April 2014 02:39 (ten years ago) link
Urghhh otm
― sonic thedgehod (albvivertine), Wednesday, 16 April 2014 02:43 (ten years ago) link
m@tt is relentlessly OTM
― Wahaca Flocka Flame (DJP), Wednesday, 16 April 2014 02:46 (ten years ago) link
even if i disagree, an article about miley like joyce would be way more entertaining (or at least potentially so) than some dad-rock cruft
― wat is teh waht (s.clover), Wednesday, 16 April 2014 02:53 (ten years ago) link
Matt otm. Although I never feel like I even see people writing seriously about bands like the black keys anymore. Maybe it's because I don't read paste - does that even exist still?
― ביטקוין (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 16 April 2014 03:31 (ten years ago) link
No, mainly because it only contained terrible copy
― 龜, Wednesday, 16 April 2014 03:33 (ten years ago) link
they keep emailing me
http://www.pastemagazine.com/
― Juelz Fantano (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 16 April 2014 03:33 (ten years ago) link
ppl write about some crappy miley song like it's fuckin ulysses
this is great
― markers, Wednesday, 16 April 2014 03:34 (ten years ago) link
Oh you mean serious literature for serious adult men? Burrrrrrn
― ביטקוין (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 16 April 2014 03:36 (ten years ago) link