The Flaming Lips...

Wayne Coyne comes across as kind of a dick really. It's probably partly because he's been happy to play the nice guy for the ten-plus years his band have had nothing but fawning critical goodwill, but the second he he's called out for doing something ill-advised or put under any kind of scrutiny he reacts incredibly badly.

people who have a happy go lucky good vibes public persona can never really keep it up forever, and the harder they try to maintain, the weirder it is when the veil drops. at some point shit is gonna get really ugly with Andrew W.K.

why is it gonna get really ugly with Andrew W.K.? the Steev Mike conspiracy has been floating around for years, but his reputation hasn't suffered too badly for it. "happy-go-lucky vibes dude turns out to be a manufactured popstar who doesn't party hard behind closed doors" is barely even newsworthy anymore, whereas "happy-go-lucky vibes dude turns out to be a vindictive, race-baiting asshole who steps all over his bandmates" is a justifiable cause for outrage. in Wayne's case people are calling him out because his behavior is malicious in a way that transcends simply failing to stay true to his public persona. I can't see Andrew WK coming under the same sort of fire unless it turns out he doesn't pay his songwriters or whatever; afaik none of the current accusations imply that he's done anything outright unethical.

I enjoy The Terror.

uh sorry unreg, comment rescinded i guess

When you read Kliph's Twitter, he just seems like some happy-go-lucky guy. I kind of used that as proof Wayne is full of shit, as that's pretty much his major argument against his old pal.

I would like to thank some dude and unregistered for the fantastic belly lol I just experienced

won't someone please think of Andrew WK?

Regardless of who said what, Wayne posted race-baiting photos of a dog in a head dress, ergo, he's an asshat.

We enjoy a good belly laugh

That is offensive to Buddha.

Joke. Coyne is an epic ass, and this whole chapter is coming at the toilet end of a well documented stream of missteps, mistakes, inappropriate stuff and a whole bunch of bs that has made the music seem an afterthought.

Are you describing their live show?

What's with all the personal animosity toward Wayne here? I get that he might be an asshole – and he is clearly really, really pissed off in this article.

My "personal animosity" started when he released that vido with the nude footage of the Badu sisters without their permission and, subsequently, completely came off like an entitled asshole during his "apology" in which he seemed completely blind as to why that might not have been an okay thing to do.

Remember when he posted a picture of glitter all over his lips after she told him to kiss her ass?

I nearly forgot that particular bit of class.

Did anyone have major complaints about Coyne before the Badu thing? Because either he was a dick all along and covered it up brilliantly, which makes me feel really uneasy, or he's taken a weird turn in the last couple of years, including the divorce and the coke habit. The recent behaviour is so out of step with how he previously came across that I don't know what to make of it.

can someone tell me what exactly happened with the badu thing

ehh ill just google it

My lone interaction with him came in the form of a random conversation before one of his shows and he was a REALLY nice guy, he approached me and I didn't realize he was the singer/guitarist of the FLips until about midway through our conversation. I must emphasize how nice and down to earth and charming he was...

But it was also 22 years ago, so there's that (plus I got off the bus around Zaireeka)

"Believe me, I was warned and knew that she was an unpredictable freak," says Coyne, who was on a plane when the online melee occurred and suspects that Badu's remarks were spurred by her fans' reaction to the clip. "A lot of the Erykah Badu audience does not know or give a shit or will ever care about the Flaming Lips. That's the side of it that she fights for," he explains. "I didn't take it serious. I took it as, she's being controversial. A lot of the things that were said I thought were just fun, and it was fun to play along with. That's the beauty of Twitter."

Wayne and Badu recorded "First Time Ever I Saw Your Face" for a collab album curated by Wayne. Wayne wanted to make a video for it that involved Erykah naked in a tub while fake blood and semen was poured over her. She demurred but said her sister would do it on condition that they would get a say in editing and final approval before it went out to the public. Wayne agreed, they shot the video, he edited it, Erykah didn't like it and exercised her veto, Wayne released it anyway, Erykah got pissy about it on Twitter, Wayne egged her on and crowed about the triumph of art while behaving like the whole thing was a fake controversy created to generate interest in the project, Erykah got even more pissy, Wayne pulled the video, Amanda Palmer popped up and said "hey, you can pour fake semen and blood on ME ME ME ME ME ME" and then that video was released and as far as I know no one cared anymore.

22 years of "worship" can do that to a bloke.

In 1989, touring to support the release of their third album, 'Telepathic Surgery', the Flaming Lips fell in with Jonathan Donahue, a young student who booked gigs for the university in Buffalo. 'We're a lot alike' reckons Wayne Coyne 'I'm not a drug-addled, self-destructive megalomaniac, though...I have a little megalo, but no maniac. But I think initially he liked us because we did things ourselves, we weren't helpless rock stars.

Nathan Roberts, who was the Lips' old drummer back in the day, posted a message of support on Kliph's Facebook:

Nathan Robertsposted to‎Kliph Scurlock
about an hour ago
"Take heart Kliph... Remember, he said the EXACT same thing about me...almost word for word."

It sounds like Wayne really likes trashing anyone who steps to him.

Did anyone have major complaints about Coyne before the Badu thing?

i remember thinking it was ~odd~ and slightly discomfiting that their live show onstage audience participation had shifted from a variety of fans in animal costumes to young women in nothing, though yeah that was relatively recent and seems an early marker in that shift we see now rather than something that's necessarily always been there. tho the other day a friend pointed out this quote about jonathan donahue from 1999 that doesn't sound like the kind of thing a pleasant good vibes guy would say: "'We're a lot alike,' reckons Wayne Coyne. 'I'm not a drug-addled, self-destructive megalomaniac, though... I have a little megalo, but no maniac'.""

ha, xp on that quote.

I'd be inclined to say it's a weird turn. I've seen all kinds of speculation for this - midlife crisis, death of his mother - but who knows. Apparently there's stuff in the Derogatis book suggesting he's always had a more ambitious and controlling side to him, but then band leaders often need to be like that and it doesn't necessarily make them assholes. Perhaps fame and life problems have brought that side out more.

helluva drug

xp He's always been more complicated than a pleasant good vibes guy and happy to admit it too. He has quite a tough moral streak which is why he laid into Beck and Arcade Fire years ago, and good luck to him when his targets are people treating crew and supporting musicians like shit BUT it's pretty grim when he turns on his own drummer. I know some people itt are sure that he is categorically a hateful human being but I find this genuinely puzzling. I've interviewed WC a few times, including some hanging around with him and the other guys, and it's hard to square those impressions with this current shitshow.

It's 100% possible to be charming and pleasant and still categorically be a hateful human being.

You must know more sociopaths than I do

I did go to an Ivy League school, so...

rivers cuomo really hurt you, huh?

He always had a good rep, but current Evil Wayne turn seemed to coincide with him leaving his wife, which in turn coincided with tales of him macking on young fans.

Which also coincided with the real fame whore stunts and truly ott silliness.

like i said

real fame whore stunts

they've done this stuff since day one

aren't most people into psychedelia also assholes? isn't that the point of the michael cera movie with the cactus?

lol

I'd agree with what DL said a few posts back. He's utterly charming in the Fearless Freaks documentary, but it still gives a good sense of a more complex personality. I always respected him for calling out rock star bullshit as you mention. I interviewed him for tQ three years back and he was really charming and open. He quite happily chatted away on the phone for an hour and a half, which is pretty generous. When I subsequently met him after the Ally Pally show he was really friendly and gave me a hug. There was perhaps the sense he was 'meeting his public', but he seemed genuine enough. As a long term fan who has always responded to his good vibes, it's been pretty disheartening to watch all this shit unfold.

As for the stunts... well, they've always had big ideas, which the less generous could dismiss as gimmicks, but I think there's a distinction between projects like Zaireeka and the car park jams, which are artistically valid, inventive and fun, and the stunts of the past couple of years, where it seems that he's become addicted to doing one wacky stunt after another. As a result, the two good records they've made (Embryonic and The Terror) have been buried in the sparkly neon avalanche. I don't actually object to them working with Miley - anything to wind up rockists - but it's all too much.

I was thinking more of guesting on 90210 (silly bid for attention) than Zaireeka (genuinely interesting work that doubles as stunt)

Aw but the 90210 thing is hilarious.

I too thought it was funny at the time. It's still an obvious fame-whore stunt.

that is kind of a mean-spirited and weird way to look at it

perhaps that sounds a bit harsh - I just meant that the motivation to go onto 90210 looks essentially like the same motivation to record with Miley Cyrus, ie "aren't we WACKY to be associating with this mainstream goofiness? It's going to be so fun and crazy and unpredictable!" Which, okay, that's what he wants to do. At a certain point (ie 30 years on) the juxtaposition isn't quite as entertaining, to me, as it maybe once was.

The 90210 thing is soooo different from what he's doing now. Different time, different goal, different context. It was a novelty not the norm.

he's made it the norm by virtue of necessity - how else do bands stay in the spotlight in the current media climate

and he's made it the norm by pursuing that tactic for 30 years

aren't most people into psychedelia also assholes? isn't that the point of the michael cera movie with the cactus?

― the glimmer man (Sufjan Grafton), Monday, May 12, 2014 12:42 PM (34 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yeah, otm. Psychedelic people tend to put a religious emphasis on their drug experiences, which is fine if you want to unwind once in a while but if you do that constantly then you just keep getting more and more self-absorbed the longer your addiction lasts.

Growing up loving the Lips Clouds/Zaireeka era in all the old interviews he kept stating he doesn't do drugs but good for people that do, but restating that personally he doesn't do drugs. It wasn't a huge focus of their act. Feel like it's a big part of the band brand nowadays. First Miley collab pic was not her singing or them working on music but her rolling a joint. When he was working w Kesha he kept hammering on about how cool she was because she does acid. Etc. Saw an interview last night where someone asked him about a collab and what brought them together and he just said "Well, they do a lot of drugs, so they must like us".

Someone upthread mentioned coke(???). I had no idea about this. It would certainly explain asshole behavior.

I've known a few assholes, all of them have a particularly charming side.

it does not mean they are not sincere when they are being charming

it means, etc