The Flaming Lips...

"Believe me, I was warned and knew that she was an unpredictable freak," says Coyne, who was on a plane when the online melee occurred and suspects that Badu's remarks were spurred by her fans' reaction to the clip. "A lot of the Erykah Badu audience does not know or give a shit or will ever care about the Flaming Lips. That's the side of it that she fights for," he explains. "I didn't take it serious. I took it as, she's being controversial. A lot of the things that were said I thought were just fun, and it was fun to play along with. That's the beauty of Twitter."

Wayne and Badu recorded "First Time Ever I Saw Your Face" for a collab album curated by Wayne. Wayne wanted to make a video for it that involved Erykah naked in a tub while fake blood and semen was poured over her. She demurred but said her sister would do it on condition that they would get a say in editing and final approval before it went out to the public. Wayne agreed, they shot the video, he edited it, Erykah didn't like it and exercised her veto, Wayne released it anyway, Erykah got pissy about it on Twitter, Wayne egged her on and crowed about the triumph of art while behaving like the whole thing was a fake controversy created to generate interest in the project, Erykah got even more pissy, Wayne pulled the video, Amanda Palmer popped up and said "hey, you can pour fake semen and blood on ME ME ME ME ME ME" and then that video was released and as far as I know no one cared anymore.

22 years of "worship" can do that to a bloke.

In 1989, touring to support the release of their third album, 'Telepathic Surgery', the Flaming Lips fell in with Jonathan Donahue, a young student who booked gigs for the university in Buffalo. 'We're a lot alike' reckons Wayne Coyne 'I'm not a drug-addled, self-destructive megalomaniac, though...I have a little megalo, but no maniac. But I think initially he liked us because we did things ourselves, we weren't helpless rock stars.

Nathan Roberts, who was the Lips' old drummer back in the day, posted a message of support on Kliph's Facebook:

Nathan Robertsposted to‎Kliph Scurlock
about an hour ago
"Take heart Kliph... Remember, he said the EXACT same thing about me...almost word for word."

It sounds like Wayne really likes trashing anyone who steps to him.

Did anyone have major complaints about Coyne before the Badu thing?

i remember thinking it was ~odd~ and slightly discomfiting that their live show onstage audience participation had shifted from a variety of fans in animal costumes to young women in nothing, though yeah that was relatively recent and seems an early marker in that shift we see now rather than something that's necessarily always been there. tho the other day a friend pointed out this quote about jonathan donahue from 1999 that doesn't sound like the kind of thing a pleasant good vibes guy would say: "'We're a lot alike,' reckons Wayne Coyne. 'I'm not a drug-addled, self-destructive megalomaniac, though... I have a little megalo, but no maniac'.""

ha, xp on that quote.

I'd be inclined to say it's a weird turn. I've seen all kinds of speculation for this - midlife crisis, death of his mother - but who knows. Apparently there's stuff in the Derogatis book suggesting he's always had a more ambitious and controlling side to him, but then band leaders often need to be like that and it doesn't necessarily make them assholes. Perhaps fame and life problems have brought that side out more.

helluva drug

xp He's always been more complicated than a pleasant good vibes guy and happy to admit it too. He has quite a tough moral streak which is why he laid into Beck and Arcade Fire years ago, and good luck to him when his targets are people treating crew and supporting musicians like shit BUT it's pretty grim when he turns on his own drummer. I know some people itt are sure that he is categorically a hateful human being but I find this genuinely puzzling. I've interviewed WC a few times, including some hanging around with him and the other guys, and it's hard to square those impressions with this current shitshow.

It's 100% possible to be charming and pleasant and still categorically be a hateful human being.

You must know more sociopaths than I do

I did go to an Ivy League school, so...

rivers cuomo really hurt you, huh?

He always had a good rep, but current Evil Wayne turn seemed to coincide with him leaving his wife, which in turn coincided with tales of him macking on young fans.

Which also coincided with the real fame whore stunts and truly ott silliness.

like i said

real fame whore stunts

they've done this stuff since day one

aren't most people into psychedelia also assholes? isn't that the point of the michael cera movie with the cactus?

lol

I'd agree with what DL said a few posts back. He's utterly charming in the Fearless Freaks documentary, but it still gives a good sense of a more complex personality. I always respected him for calling out rock star bullshit as you mention. I interviewed him for tQ three years back and he was really charming and open. He quite happily chatted away on the phone for an hour and a half, which is pretty generous. When I subsequently met him after the Ally Pally show he was really friendly and gave me a hug. There was perhaps the sense he was 'meeting his public', but he seemed genuine enough. As a long term fan who has always responded to his good vibes, it's been pretty disheartening to watch all this shit unfold.

As for the stunts... well, they've always had big ideas, which the less generous could dismiss as gimmicks, but I think there's a distinction between projects like Zaireeka and the car park jams, which are artistically valid, inventive and fun, and the stunts of the past couple of years, where it seems that he's become addicted to doing one wacky stunt after another. As a result, the two good records they've made (Embryonic and The Terror) have been buried in the sparkly neon avalanche. I don't actually object to them working with Miley - anything to wind up rockists - but it's all too much.

I was thinking more of guesting on 90210 (silly bid for attention) than Zaireeka (genuinely interesting work that doubles as stunt)

Aw but the 90210 thing is hilarious.

I too thought it was funny at the time. It's still an obvious fame-whore stunt.

that is kind of a mean-spirited and weird way to look at it

perhaps that sounds a bit harsh - I just meant that the motivation to go onto 90210 looks essentially like the same motivation to record with Miley Cyrus, ie "aren't we WACKY to be associating with this mainstream goofiness? It's going to be so fun and crazy and unpredictable!" Which, okay, that's what he wants to do. At a certain point (ie 30 years on) the juxtaposition isn't quite as entertaining, to me, as it maybe once was.

The 90210 thing is soooo different from what he's doing now. Different time, different goal, different context. It was a novelty not the norm.

he's made it the norm by virtue of necessity - how else do bands stay in the spotlight in the current media climate

and he's made it the norm by pursuing that tactic for 30 years

aren't most people into psychedelia also assholes? isn't that the point of the michael cera movie with the cactus?

― the glimmer man (Sufjan Grafton), Monday, May 12, 2014 12:42 PM (34 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yeah, otm. Psychedelic people tend to put a religious emphasis on their drug experiences, which is fine if you want to unwind once in a while but if you do that constantly then you just keep getting more and more self-absorbed the longer your addiction lasts.

Growing up loving the Lips Clouds/Zaireeka era in all the old interviews he kept stating he doesn't do drugs but good for people that do, but restating that personally he doesn't do drugs. It wasn't a huge focus of their act. Feel like it's a big part of the band brand nowadays. First Miley collab pic was not her singing or them working on music but her rolling a joint. When he was working w Kesha he kept hammering on about how cool she was because she does acid. Etc. Saw an interview last night where someone asked him about a collab and what brought them together and he just said "Well, they do a lot of drugs, so they must like us".

Someone upthread mentioned coke(???). I had no idea about this. It would certainly explain asshole behavior.

I've known a few assholes, all of them have a particularly charming side.

it does not mean they are not sincere when they are being charming

it means, etc

Is it really that unusual for music journalists to encounter engaging, entertaining, charismatic people who are also capable of being gigantic assholes when they turn off the charm? This is a personality trait you run into in classical and opera constantly; given the various stories I've heard about a number of famous pop/rock musicians, I assumed the trait carried over to that arena as well.

so in summary: gross disrespect for women, defies contractual agreements, blames racism on dog.

no racism is the name of his dog

Someone upthread mentioned coke(???). I had no idea about this. It would certainly explain asshole behavior.

He's definitely tweeted/instagramed a few pictures of coke in the studio, I specifically recall one with Kesha with a bunch of lines laid out on table in the studio.

xp Give journalists a little more credit, DJP. When someone's charming you probe the charm. You work out if it's just diverting patter or if they're willing to be candid and self-critical. You look for little cracks in the charm that suggest something less pleasant. You look at how they interact with other people, whether they've had the same bandmates, mgmt, crew, etc for years, what their general reputation is. That's why I'm surprised. This kind of disconnect really is unusual.

I started writing a bunch of irrelevant nonsense that doesn't really belong on this thread, but yeah I have dealt with several (would-be, perceived and actual) sociopaths in my life and Wayne Coyne's behavior doesn't shock me, nor his ability to be massively charming to the right people.

you're fooled until you're not

Would totally read a DJP thread about megalomaniac opera/classical musicians.

I didnt see it before, therefore it wasnt there, and now that i see it, it must be that they've changed - otherwise I would have spotted it before.

obligatory morbs obama zing

As I say, DL, they can be totally sincere with the charm, there's nothing to see-through, it can all be for real...

Anyway, I've said "They" enough now..

I have met a few of those people in the opera world too, and more of them are coke heads than you might think -- at least in Europe.

i have definitely interviewed some VERY charming actors and then heard horror stories from the publicists.

not the same thing at all (unless......??????) but i've read a lot of stories abt the lost prophets dude and how incredibly charming and "gracious" he was.

well, quite.

Next up...

very bad people can be very charming. in fact this is how they often get away with and are able to be even badder.

exactly.

We all like to think of ourselves as "good judges of character" and so on...

I feel like we've gotten a little too serious, can we go back to unregistered's takedown of some dude's Andrew WK joke?

I've never fully understood the whole Steev Mike thing.