why did rock critics hate Queen so much in the 1970s/80s?

I'm really the only person who knew "Bohemian Rhapsody" from classic rock radio pre-92??

― EveningStar (Sund4r), Saturday, May 17, 2014 8:04 PM (14 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

no, it was def around classic rock stations in metro nyc turn of the 80s, not huge though.

Like "Another one…" did not work on rock radio

this song saturated every kind of radio as far as i recall.

x-post is anyone here really in thrall of Marsh? I did the polls of his stupid list book, but I never detected any love for the man.

i love this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wk9hPubD1Q

Yeah, it was another one I remembered.
xpost re "Another One..."

ha ha al these UK guys who just posted…tell us how old you are, if you dare!

― veronica moser,

41

i'm 42

that is so fuckin' hilarious that UK dudes around my age had to buy a record to hear fuckin "stairway." in the U.S., that song is a fact of life like McDonalds, but the countrymen of the people who made it have to seek it out cuz Morrissey and the NME doesn't like it!

although maybe folks born in the US in 1992 or thereabouts have never heard it.

it never fails to amaze me that so many of you guys are in thrall to the likes of Xgau and Marsh, to the point where so many of you cite shit they wrote as if it means a goddamn thing…I'm 43, and the amount of guys on this board who reflexively defend those guys makes me think that that alot of you here just a bit older than me and are weirdly hung-up on the bizarre, self-flattering but very much not self-aware shit those guys have perpetrated for decades

eh Christgau was a huge influence but like scott said his tastes and mine don't intersect for quite a few things he thought too "British" or "European." But so what? Apart from admiring felicities of style, the point of writers reading writers is often just to follow the course of an argument. Sharing tastes doesn't matter much to me.

xp i live in the us now and it was conversely weird to me to discover classic rock radio and see all these teens into the likes of pink floyd.

to the point where so many of you cite shit they wrote as if it means a goddamn thing

this sorta is a thread about rock critics' attitudes toward queen iirc.

WW reissue of "Bohemian Rhapsody" was so fucking huge in America. Only Vanessa Williams' great "Save the Best For Last" kept it from #1. I always associate spring '92 with those two jams, "I Love Your Smile," and "Jump."

what a great fuckin year

all4 of those songs own

speaking of all4 we also had "All 4 Love" at #1.

For what it's worth, Christgau did come around on Queen when he reviewed something called Barcelona (had this lodged in my memory, had to google "Christgau Mercury"):

I can't deny it because I catch myself grinning--distanced by the years, and with the campy kicks magnified by a heightened awareness of Freddie Mercury's sexuality, the music of Queen has accrued the high gloss of committed kitsch, where that of Journey, say, has assumed the dull shapelessness of utter crap. Although I don't enjoy all of Classic Queen or Queen's Greatest Hits--the material's not quite that deep--they're often funny and they're also pop, oddly reminiscent of top-grade Cheap Trick.

The Cheap Trick lover in me flinches, but there you go.

It's amazing Queen did these kinds of sales in the UK for most of the eighties:

The single reached only the 45th position in the US charts, but reached number 3 in the UK and was certified silver with 200,000+ copies sold

That's for "I Want to Break Free."

as if it means a goddamn thing

As opposed to what? What we say here? They had opinions, we have opinions, some of theirs influenced some of mine.

yeah I don't get veronica moser's position. Critics should resist reading....other critics?

that is so fuckin' hilarious that UK dudes around my age had to buy a record to hear fuckin "stairway." in the U.S., that song is a fact of life like McDonalds, but the countrymen of the people who made it have to seek it out cuz Morrissey and the NME doesn't like it!

although maybe folks born in the US in 1992 or thereabouts have never heard it.

― veronica moser, Saturday, May 17, 2014 7:44 PM Bookmark

I'm an estadounidense and have never heard "Stairway to Heaven" other than of my own volition (and thank god, that song fucking sucks). I've hear Queen all the time tho.

it never fails to amaze me that so many of you guys are in thrall to the likes of Xgau and Marsh, to the point where so many of you cite shit they wrote as if it means a goddamn thing…

i don't get that impression from this thread at all FWIW.

I'm just interested in why the rock-crit establishment (not just those two guys) hated Queen so much. I mean, it's a valid historical question.

xpost

isn't "kitsch" by definition something of poor quality? Queen is not kitsch.

what was the last old song to get a second life like that? was fairly common for a string there during the 80s into early 90s - 'twist and shout', 'stand by me', 'unchained melody', 'bohemian rhapsody', and i'm sure i'm forgetting others (none of these were obscurities to begin w/ either). these were generally all due to use in movies and the uk had a similar phenomenon w/ levi's ads during this time as well.

your beloved "Into the Night." Also: "Send Me An Angel." Bit of a trend in '89.

xpost

motherfucking candle in the wind?

Elvis's "A Little Less Conversation"?

yeah, though that's kinda a different type of trend where you had early 80s hits get second life (and often rerecordings by said acts needing a new record deal), the same happened w/ 'i melt w/ you'.

well I guess I should say that I've been around Xgau a number of times, and he's remarkable for the smug self-satisfaction that he exudes, so yeah that influences the way I think about him. He and Marsh have existed in only occasionally permeable bubbles for 40 years now that no one, not even the most self-impressed rock crit reprobates among you, should ever aspire to. and both of them continue to exude a certain privilege a la "oh I've been doing this for so long no one can fuck with me" that is truly revolting. They are the Clapton-esque elite of the field, and should be regarded as such.

'candle in the wind' was a very different recording though, it wasn't quite the disparity of having an old ben e. king hit pop up between falco and nu shooz. plus the circumstances (referring here to america's infatuation w/ a-side 'something about the way you look tonight', perhaps prompted by a nation unable to stop thinking about heather graham in boogie nights), you could sell me that the charting of a different live version of 'candle in the wind' in 87 ties into this phenomenon somewhat (though that's probably more 'hey here's a live version of some old shit' a la 'maybe i'm amazed' and 'she's got a way'). 'a little less conversation' probably qualifies more though i'm begrudging it cuz remix plus was it that big a hit really. i never got whiplash from it like i did w/ 'unchained melody'.

Let's not forget: "Candle in the Wind" was bigger in America in '87 and '97 than it ever was in the seventies.

well I guess I should say that I've been around Xgau a number of times, and he's remarkable for the smug self-satisfaction that he exudes

never gotten this attitude from him at all -- the contrary actually -- but ok

that is so fuckin' hilarious that UK dudes around my age had to buy a record to hear fuckin "stairway." in the U.S., that song is a fact of life like McDonalds, but the countrymen of the people who made it have to seek it out cuz Morrissey and the NME doesn't like it!

Zep never released singles in the UK so didnt get pop airplay (smiths etc never got airplay either) and UK had no rock radio.
obv peel played zep etc at the time as will have alan fluff freeman. but that was evening/late night.

i actually owned the 87 version 7-inch. was kinda horrified the first time i heard the goodbye yellow brick road version - what's w/ these beach boys touches? and that corny guitar line? WHY ISN'T HE BELLOWING MORE??? just remembered another coelacanth hit - 'daydream believer'. maybe even another monkees rerelease i'm forgetting (most successful state fair reunion ever). this isn't quite isolated to the late 80s, the beatles charted in the top ten in 1976 w/ 'got to get you into my life', but it seems like it flourished more from 86-92.

four kinds i think:

1 - these ancient coelacanth hits popping up due to movie or tv ('stand by me', 'bohemian rhapsody', 'unchained melody')

2 - desperate fucks lucking into some dj somewhere playing their one hit and milking that second chance for all it's worth by rerecording that one hit (benny, modern english, real life)(just found out the guys who did 'send me an angel' were named real life)

3 - someone w/ recent pop success putting out a comp as a stopgap while they work on a followup and throwing out a remix of a song that should've done better on the charts the first time around ('valerie', 'blue monday 88', 'close to me (closest remix)')

4 - hey here's a live version of some old song that wasn't that huge a hit the first time ('she's got a way', 'candle in the wind')

3 & 4 closely related, 2 somewhere between those two and 1, which is the outgroup.

When did they start playing Zep on the radio in the UK? That is so so so weird.

I mean, i understand Queen's ubiquitousness in the UK, but the seemingly deliberate blacklisting of Zep like they were Insane Clown Posse or something...

yeah 'stairway' is atop peel's festive fifty for 76, whole list is like a glimpse of a possible model for what uk classic rock could've been -

1. Led Zeppelin - Stairway To Heaven
2. Derek & the Dominoes - Layla
3. Bob Dylan - Desolation Row
4. Pink Floyd - Echoes
5. Jimi Hendrix - All Along The Watchtower
6. Free - Alright Now
7. Racing Cars - They Shoot Horses Don't They?
8. Pink Floyd - Shine On You Crazy Diamond
9. Beatles - A Day In The Life
10. Bob Dylan - Like A Rolling Stone
11. Poco - Rose of Cimarron
12. Neil Young - Cortez the killer
13. Rolling Stones - Brown sugar
14. Beatles - Hey Jude
15. Legendary Stardust Cowboy - Paralysed
16. Jimi Hendrix - Voodoo chile
17. Beatles - Strawberry fields forever
18. Captain Beefheart - Big eyed beans from Venus
19. Led Zeppelin - Whole lotta love
20. Lynyrd Skynyrd - Freebird
21. Van Morrison - Madame George
22. Doors - Riders on the storm
23. Bob Dylan - Visions of Johanna
24. Jefferson Airplane - White Rabbit
25. Deep Purple - Child in time
26. Little Feat - Long distance love
27. Grinderswitch - Pickin' the blues
28. Joe Walsh - Rocky mountain way
29. Who - Won't get fooled again
30. Misunderstood - I can take you to the sun
31. Genesis - Supper's ready
32. Bob Marley and the Wailers - No woman, no cry
33. Jonathan Richman - Roadrunner
34. Rod Stewart - Maggie May
35. Jackson Browne - Late for the sky
36. Led Zeppelin - Kashmir
37. Jimi Hendrix - Hey Joe
38. Allman Brothers band - Jessica
39. Rolling Stones - Jumping Jack flash
40. Grateful Dead - Dark Star
41. Richard Thompson - I wanna see the bright lights
42. Family - The weaver's answer
43. Jackson Browne - Fountain of sorrow
44. Bob Dylan - Hurricane
45. Doors - Light my fire
46. Matching Mole - O Caroline
47. Roy Harper - When an old cricketer leaves the crease
48. Wild Man Fischer - Go to Rhino records
49. Little Feat - Willin'
50. Yes - And you and I

that jonathan richman is like seeing a little microbe that's about to wipe out every organism around it

Good call on "Valerie."It and "Higher Love" and to a lessee extent "While You See a Chance" are the only Winwoods I hear.

lol i play arc of a diver like five times a summer. 'spanish dancer' is what i want playing when i'm gliding past the fans to jessica lange's embrace.

"Hold on" from the his first solo album is what I wish the rest of his solo career leaned towards, not that I would want to live without his zippy 80s synth lead style. Him and D'angelo should make an album together.

"Baby Blue" made a couple of Billboard charts after the Breaking Bad episode ("it blasts onto Rock Digital Songs at No. 8"--the tremors are still being felt).

http://www.billboard.com/biz/articles/news/5755383/chart-moves-badfingers-baby-blue-enters-hot-rock-songs-paramore-scores-a

I think the launch of virgin radio was when stairway got played on daytime radio (early on before it became just another 80s station)

Older people obv had heard zep as they were huge but i guess they sought out the records themselves. But i never heard them once during the 80s on radio.

re. peel's festive 50 for 76:

it's funny, some of that stuff was no doubt cutting-edge at the time but I begin looking through that list and I can barely keep my eyes open. i mean a lot of the music on it is great but—with a few notable exceptions, the equivalent of someone pouring water on you while you're napping—seeing zeppelin/floyd/hendrix/beatles/dylan/free in succession triggers some sleep mechanism in my brain.

seemingly half of those songs are from late 60s/early 70s--what gives?

the list is also WHITE AS FUCK. jesus, did peel never listen to R&B?

i mean i feel like half of my faves from 76 would be miami or philly r&b

that will be voted by his listeners

The first Festive Fifty was broadcast in 1976 and differed in format to later charts in that it was not restricted to songs from that year. It was topped by Led Zeppelin's "Stairway to Heaven", first released in 1971, and also contained many older songs.

Despite Peel's eclectic play list, the Festive Fifty tended to be composed largely of "white boys with guitars", as Peel complained in 1988.

yeah rock show listeners voting for rock songs isn't that crazy, there's enough there (beefheart, richman) to make me wonder how much of that listenership was still there a year later

77 festive 50*

1. Dancing The Night Away' The Motors
2. Uptown Top Ranking' Althia & Donna
3. You Beat The Hell Out of Me' The Motors
4. I Can't Stand My Baby' The Rezillos
5. Suspended Sentence' John Cooper Clarke
6. Smokescreen' Desperate Bicycles
7. Right Track - Marlene Webber
8. Like a Hurricane' Neil Young
9. Complete Control' The Clash
10. Be Good To Yourself' Frankie Miller
11. Holidays In The Sun' The Sex Pistols
12. Shadow' The Lurkers
13. Truly' J. Ayes and Ranking Trevor
14. Pigs' Pink Floyd
15. Incendiary Device' Johnny Moped
16. New Religion' Some Chicken
17. See Them Come' Culture
18. Emergency' The Motors
19. The Worm Song' The Yobs
20. Box Number' The Boys
21. London Lady' The Stranglers
22. I Don't Wanna' Sham 69
23. Pinhead' The Ramones
24. Freedom Connection' Jah Woosh
25. Can't Give You More' Status Quo
26. Blue Wind' Jeff Beck with Jan Hammer
27. White Riot' The Clash
28. Success' Iggy Pop
29. Your Generation' Generation X
30. Nobody Go Run Me' King Short Shirt
31. Love Story' The Lurkers
32. Waiting in Vain' Bob Marley & The Wailers
33. Paradise' Dr Feelgood
34. Cruel Brother' Five Hand Reel
35. I'm Stranded' The Saints
36. Heroes' David Bowie
37. Sick On You' The Users
38. Oh Bondage Up Yours!' X Ray Spex
39. Lookin' After Number 1' The Boomtown Rats
40. No Man's Land' June Tabor
41. Neat Neat Neat' The Damned
42. The Dark End Of The Street' Ry Cooder
43. Questions' Suburban Studs
44. Feel Like Making Love' Elizabeth Archer & The Equators
45. I Knew The Bride' Dave Edmunds
46. Away From The Numbers' The Jam
47. Whole Wide World' Wreckless Eric
48. Green Onions' Roy Buchanan
49. Wild Dub' Generation X
50. I.R.T.' Snatch
51. Pretty Vacant' The Sex Pistols
52. John Willie's Ferret' The Oldham Tinkers
53 'Stepping Razor' Peter Tosh
54. Capital Radio' The Clash
55. Watching The Detectives' Elvis Costello and The Attractions
56. Bringing In The Morning Light' The Motors
57. Beginning of The End' Eddie & The Hot Rods
58. Jocko Homo' Devo
59. Whatever Happened To' The Buzzcocks
60. Rocket In My Pocket' Little Feat
...& 61..God Save The Queen' The Sex Pistols

77's was all chosen by peel.

then

The following years' returned to a listener poll and listed mostly contemporary songs - "Anarchy in the UK" by the Sex Pistols topped three consecutive charts from 1978 and came second in the 1981. This marked a period of domination of the upper reaches of the chart by punk artists as the genre was embraced by Peel and his listeners, though other genres were represented further down the list, and the continuing presence in the list of "Stairway to Heaven" until 1979 showed that the older generation of Peel listeners had not completely abandoned the show.

a lot of punks liked the old rock/metal but just werent allowed to admit it. Ive lost count of people who got into punk and sold their rock records and regretted it.
Plus led zep were known punk fans. Id wager most of the early punk bands were zep fans previously.

peels beloved faces were loved by punks