why did rock critics hate Queen so much in the 1970s/80s?

i mean i feel like half of my faves from 76 would be miami or philly r&b

that will be voted by his listeners

The first Festive Fifty was broadcast in 1976 and differed in format to later charts in that it was not restricted to songs from that year. It was topped by Led Zeppelin's "Stairway to Heaven", first released in 1971, and also contained many older songs.

Despite Peel's eclectic play list, the Festive Fifty tended to be composed largely of "white boys with guitars", as Peel complained in 1988.

yeah rock show listeners voting for rock songs isn't that crazy, there's enough there (beefheart, richman) to make me wonder how much of that listenership was still there a year later

77 festive 50*

1. Dancing The Night Away' The Motors
2. Uptown Top Ranking' Althia & Donna
3. You Beat The Hell Out of Me' The Motors
4. I Can't Stand My Baby' The Rezillos
5. Suspended Sentence' John Cooper Clarke
6. Smokescreen' Desperate Bicycles
7. Right Track - Marlene Webber
8. Like a Hurricane' Neil Young
9. Complete Control' The Clash
10. Be Good To Yourself' Frankie Miller
11. Holidays In The Sun' The Sex Pistols
12. Shadow' The Lurkers
13. Truly' J. Ayes and Ranking Trevor
14. Pigs' Pink Floyd
15. Incendiary Device' Johnny Moped
16. New Religion' Some Chicken
17. See Them Come' Culture
18. Emergency' The Motors
19. The Worm Song' The Yobs
20. Box Number' The Boys
21. London Lady' The Stranglers
22. I Don't Wanna' Sham 69
23. Pinhead' The Ramones
24. Freedom Connection' Jah Woosh
25. Can't Give You More' Status Quo
26. Blue Wind' Jeff Beck with Jan Hammer
27. White Riot' The Clash
28. Success' Iggy Pop
29. Your Generation' Generation X
30. Nobody Go Run Me' King Short Shirt
31. Love Story' The Lurkers
32. Waiting in Vain' Bob Marley & The Wailers
33. Paradise' Dr Feelgood
34. Cruel Brother' Five Hand Reel
35. I'm Stranded' The Saints
36. Heroes' David Bowie
37. Sick On You' The Users
38. Oh Bondage Up Yours!' X Ray Spex
39. Lookin' After Number 1' The Boomtown Rats
40. No Man's Land' June Tabor
41. Neat Neat Neat' The Damned
42. The Dark End Of The Street' Ry Cooder
43. Questions' Suburban Studs
44. Feel Like Making Love' Elizabeth Archer & The Equators
45. I Knew The Bride' Dave Edmunds
46. Away From The Numbers' The Jam
47. Whole Wide World' Wreckless Eric
48. Green Onions' Roy Buchanan
49. Wild Dub' Generation X
50. I.R.T.' Snatch
51. Pretty Vacant' The Sex Pistols
52. John Willie's Ferret' The Oldham Tinkers
53 'Stepping Razor' Peter Tosh
54. Capital Radio' The Clash
55. Watching The Detectives' Elvis Costello and The Attractions
56. Bringing In The Morning Light' The Motors
57. Beginning of The End' Eddie & The Hot Rods
58. Jocko Homo' Devo
59. Whatever Happened To' The Buzzcocks
60. Rocket In My Pocket' Little Feat
...& 61..God Save The Queen' The Sex Pistols

77's was all chosen by peel.

then

The following years' returned to a listener poll and listed mostly contemporary songs - "Anarchy in the UK" by the Sex Pistols topped three consecutive charts from 1978 and came second in the 1981. This marked a period of domination of the upper reaches of the chart by punk artists as the genre was embraced by Peel and his listeners, though other genres were represented further down the list, and the continuing presence in the list of "Stairway to Heaven" until 1979 showed that the older generation of Peel listeners had not completely abandoned the show.

a lot of punks liked the old rock/metal but just werent allowed to admit it. Ive lost count of people who got into punk and sold their rock records and regretted it.
Plus led zep were known punk fans. Id wager most of the early punk bands were zep fans previously.

peels beloved faces were loved by punks

ah, i didn't realize that (76 festive 50) was a listeners' poll. that explains a lot. peel's own poll is still amazingly white—athea & donna almost feels like a token in that context. i mean, fuck, how much great jamaican music was released in the late 70s (much of it on UK labels)? I can't even begin to count...

anyway

QUEEN

When did "Redemption Song" become a signature Bob Marley tune?

the day the music died IMO

in all seriousness: probably shortly after it first appeared on that "Legend" comp in mid-80s?

song came out in 1980, last song on last album to come out during his lifetime

what's Tarfumes gonna do with this quote:

Point out that Louis Armstrong's favorite bandleader -- over Ellington and Basie -- was Guy Lombardo. Some brilliant artists have lapses in taste.

(Although I'll grant that Mercury was the only other UK singer at the time who could've/should've posed as a centaur on a record cover.)

Queen is aggressively showoffy music major nonsense and that's something that some people cannot tolerate.

From my perspective I just wish the guitar solos were longer on the hits.

xgau has always hated metal pretty much.

― scott seward, Saturday, May 17, 2014 9:38 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This is true, and Marsh called him out on it:

I think he hates rock ‘n’ roll. I don’t even think he makes much of a secret about it. If you actually look at his reviews, he doesn’t like rock bands. He said some miserably – I can’t think of a better way to put it but bigoted things about, for instance, the heavy metal audience.

what was the last old song to get a second life like that? was fairly common for a string there during the 80s into early 90s - 'twist and shout', 'stand by me', 'unchained melody', 'bohemian rhapsody', and i'm sure i'm forgetting others (none of these were obscurities to begin w/ either). these were generally all due to use in movies and the uk had a similar phenomenon w/ levi's ads during this time as well.

― balls, Saturday, May 17, 2014 11:01 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

"I Got You (I Feel Good)" had a resurgence in interest after Good Morning, Vietnam, as did Armstrong's "What a Wonderful World" (which hit #32 in 1988).

This convo happening like "Don't Stop Believing" never got played on the Sopranos.

remind me again how that's relevant here

that armstrong one is interesting cuz it wasn't a hit originally in the us. did well in the uk at the time but it did much better in 88 than 67 in the us. part of me wonders - were boomers buying singles? obv radio pandering to boomers played a huge role (though not as much w/ queen i think) but were these hits again purely off airplay?

That's a good question. I can't imagine boomers being too into that era of Armstrong; in the late 60s, he was considered to be strictly squaresville. A bunch of kids in my high school in '88 were into that record, which I found kind of strange and interesting. I think for them it was just a fascinating (and lovely) relic of a bygone era, but that era wasn't necessarily the 60s -- I think they assumed the song dated from the 40s or 50s.

WW reissue of "Bohemian Rhapsody" was so fucking huge in America. Only Vanessa Williams' great "Save the Best For Last" kept it from #1. I always associate spring '92 with those two jams, "I Love Your Smile," and "Jump."

― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, May 17, 2014 9:48 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I was 13 when Wayne's World came out (and hence in its prime demographic). Had never before heard "Bohemian's Rhapsody" and loved it. Loved, too, that it was being played on Top 40 radio, even on the local rhythmic-top-40 station that was otherwise playing, like, "Remember the Time" and "I'm Too Sexy" and CeCe Peniston.

"You have no idea how big Queen were. Way bigger and better known than Led Zeppelin. I never heard any zep on uk daytime radio growing up."

This is interesting. I always knew the US was totally crazy over The Who by comparison to the UK, especially say by the late 80s and beyond. The Who could just camp outside of Chicago and probably sell out a whole tour at one point. I really never realized that Led Zep's profile was that less in the UK. I don't know if it is a big feature on radio now, but pretty much from the 80s on I can remember many radio stations doing a "get the led out" set either over 30-60 minutes over a weekend or some kind of thing where they state they roll a dice like at 9pm and then play 2-6 Led Zep tunes in a row.

The Who could just camp outside of Chicago and probably sell out a whole tour at one point.

This was definitely true through 1989. But they played to a lot of half-empty arenas here in 1996 and 1997. The Schlitz sponsorship on the '82 tour and the '89 "The Who On Ice" reunion cash-grab did serious damage to their image in the US for a number of years.

of interest to this tangent: a couple years ago I started a thread that was dedicated to figuring out what TV/movie placement or random pop culture bump caused whatever old songs are currently showing up on digital sales charts

rolling "why is this old song suddenly on a digital sales chart" thread

http://danielnester2.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/itmap2.jpg?w=213&h=426

a brave look in '77

http://www.npr.org/blogs/therecord/2013/06/28/196678642/the-slow-hit-movement-year-old-songs-on-the-pop-charts

The Re-Issue Movement of '88-'89. Others:

UB40 - Red Red Wine
Sheriff - When I'm With You
Jimmy Harnen and Synch - Where Are You Now?

The thing that needs to be emphasised here is that, in the UK, Queen are about as establishment as they come, only Elton John and Paul McCartney share that position as the absolute ubiquitous centrepieces of the most granny-friendly of mainstream popular culture. They may have emerged from the same world as Zeppelin or Floyd or whoever but in the popular consciousness they eclipse all of them, they probably even eclipse the Rolling Stones.

Although to illustrate their position in pop culture over here the closest comparison point is probably Abba rather than any other rock band. There wassn't a shred of bohemianism or danger to them even when they were being weird.

yeah Queen seem to be seen in the UK the way the Eagles are seen in the US (fittings, since those bands' respective greatest hits collections are the top selling albums of all time in their home country)

That's a good comparison, yeah.

The other thing is that Queen (or Freddie Mercury really) fit squarely into a very mainstream kind of camp, dudes in dresses are at the centre of British culture in a way they just aren't in the US, so Mercury could pull off a lot of stuff that wouldn't even code as particularly weird even among people who would be otherwise homophobic. Like he was obviously flamboyant as hell but as far as I know he never explicitly came out and that just wouldn't have been a contradiction in 70s or 80s Britain. Compare that to the gestures that Bowie made.

i think Freddie and some other British rock stars got away with a lot of stuff with American audiences that American artists wouldn't have because there was always a sense of "well, he's British, it's a different culture over there"

Like obviously Britain was a way more homophobic society back then but there was this weird thing where the British public was perfectly willing to accept and treasure people who acted as camp as possible as long as they didn't actively talk about being gay or outwardly show any physical affection to another dude.

Even Neil Tennant didn't come out publicly until 1994. Neil Tennant!

It's worth noting that in America Elton's decision to admit his bisexuality coincided with the beginning of his artistic decline. Bowie on the other hand got the declaration out of the way immediately, which allowed the public and music press to marinate in the concept for a few years while programmers eventually started playing his records enough so that Young Americans and Station to Station became huge hits.

With Mercury he didn't change a fraction of an inch: he was flamboyant and remained so as he watched times change.

i think Freddie and some other British rock stars got away with a lot of stuff with American audiences that American artists wouldn't have because there was always a sense of "well, he's British, it's a different culture over there"

http://youtu.be/7dKpHtc9F9M?t=1m23s

I guess I grew up sheltered, in an extremely liberal environment...I was a kid, but at the time I saw "We are the Champions" as ironic. I thought everyone knew Freddie was gay. As a music geek I really enjoyed Brian May. My brother's favorite band, we were so sheltered we thought being gay was natural to the rock culture.

A lot of those critics came from a Vietnam-era mentality, where there was an "us versus them" (imagined reactionary elements) mentality.

Also kids' opinions didn't count for anything in the seventies...it was something used to disparage bands.

Can you plz point out to me where the irony is in We Are The Champions

I dont think sporting events crowds use it ironically but maybe the joke us on them.

I always got an ironic feeling from "no time for losers"

The thing with the Eagles in the UK though is that they sold out stadiums in 1976 here and again in 96 and beyond when they reformed.
Did Queen ever play stadiums in the US?
Plus you did hear a couple of Eagles songs on radio now and again unlike zep.

They never played outdoor sports stadiums here, but starting around 1976 they were playing arenas (Madison Square Garden, LA Forum and the like).

Even Neil Tennant didn't come out publicly until 1994. Neil Tennant!

Neil Tennant is gay!?!

Led Zep never released any singles, so obviously you never heard them on (daytime) radio, the Eagles did.

already said that upthread, tom

but youre a bit older than me tom, so how big actually was zep here? who was into them? I assume NME/MM didn't care for them? How about Sounds?

I always assume Sounds was the reason certain bands got popular but is that fair?