why did rock critics hate Queen so much in the 1970s/80s?

Queen influenced a tooooooon of people from hard rockers to pop singers and everywhere in between.

I don't know Queen albums well, but Brian May definitely strikes me as a genuinely interesting guitarist. His sound is very unique.

For me Freddie is maybe the least annoying thing about Queen - May is a good guitarist but his tone drives me crazy, and Taylor's habit of opening the hi hat on the snare provokes a similar reaction.

Unique to Queen, no doubt, but not for me

it is absolutely true that Taylor is notorious among drummers for the "Pea Soup" faux pas M of T describes.

I don't know Queen albums well, but Brian May definitely strikes me as a genuinely interesting guitarist. His sound is very unique.

― timellison

For me Freddie is maybe the least annoying thing about Queen - May is a good guitarist but his tone drives me crazy...

― Master of Treacle

(cf. "Toniiiiight / we are yoooooung")

I was also thinking about the "fascist" accusations. From the very beginning, Queen produced what i'm tempted to call triumphalist cheese. Their music seems to strive for this sense of soaring (yes) supremacy, proud and erect atop a mountain's peak, the wind flowing through our golden hair. The vibe is intrinsically collective, it invites us into a shared feeling: "Here, comrade. Stand with us atop this mountain in joyful unity. The view is incredible." The appollonian strain of prog often seem to reach for this, a sense of almost superhuman majesty in acheivement, optimistic, insistent on excellence, truly olympian - and Queen took that theme further than any of their peers.

I can see why some might see in this an echo of fascist triumphalism, especially when turned to singalong pop, but the key difference is that it isn't fascist. It's not dedicated to the eradication or suppression of anything. No group is damned or othered, no obedience enforced. I suppose it could conceivably be put to use by fascists, but that's true of a great many not-particularly-offensive things. Some people enjoy the feeling of minty-fresh athletic ecstacy invoked, while others don't. Iused to reject this sort of music on general principle, insisting on filth-dripping nihilist vulgarity, but I was never tempted to view Queen-style operatic grandeur as evil. I just thought it was sort of gross, too easy, lacking the violent thrill of negation.

it seems unlikely that Hitler would have considered Freddie Mercury (born Farrokh Bulsara) to be a "white guy"

Well, yeah, tbh, it's particularly striking that the first South Asian man to become this successful as a musician in the Empire's language should be charged with things like "Aryan/Nordic supremacy", especially at a time when so many actually white rock musicians were playing with explicitly racist or fascist ideas.

For me Freddie is maybe the least annoying thing about Queen - May is a good guitarist but his tone drives me crazy, and Taylor's habit of opening the hi hat on the snare provokes a similar reaction.

Unique to Queen, no doubt, but not for me

― Master of Treacle, Sunday, May 18, 2014 10:36 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

It's one of my favourite things about his drumming. Couldn't imagine 'Brighton Rock' or 'Liar', to name two, without it.

I never knew May was a Vox AC30 guy! Apparently, he went from using nine of them on stage to using twelve in the early '80s.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyyTBeAmZIc

The influence thing is a red herring - people like Pat Smear were devotees. And the likes of Shudder To Think are probably more obvious but even so, I would suspect you would find a lot of Queen fans in bands without an obvious trace of Queen influence.

sund4r otm

That NME "Is This Man A Prat?" interview circa '77 makes for some great reading. There's hostility there from both sides.

"Darling, if everything you read in the press about me was true then I wouldn't be sitting here talking to you today, because I would be so worried about my ego. Actually, if it was all accurate, I would have burnt myself out by now. I really would have."

But you do appreciate the mystique which has developed around you.

"I think I need it. I like all that. It's my character. Certainly I'm a flamboyant person. I like to live life. I certainly work hard for it, and I want to have a good time. Don't deny me that. It might not come again and I want to enjoy myself a little."

"I hope," he adds, tilting his head and quietly smirking, "that when you better yourself in your profession you enjoy yourself too."

The influence thing is a red herring - people like Pat Smear were devotees. And the likes of Shudder To Think are probably more obvious but even so, I would suspect you would find a lot of Queen fans in bands without an obvious trace of Queen influence.

― Master of Treacle, Sunday, May 18, 2014 7:54 PM (9 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i totally agree. Fugazi, for instance, worship Queen.

http://www.queenonline.com/en/the-band/interviews/freddie-mercury-1/is-this-man-a-prat-/

As incredible as it is to believe, the indie band Field Music are massive Queen fans. In the inlay to their second album, Tones Of Town, there's a picture of them sitting around their studio. On the floor is a copy of Queen's Jazz.

i think it's probably impossible to come off as Queen-influenced unless you have a really skilled/bold singer who can pull off even a hint of what Freddie does, and/or a guitarist who's unafraid to rip off May's distinctive tone. without one of those 2 things, you can pretty much pillage Queen songs for ideas and influences without anyone noticing it or pointing it out.

All this talk of influence and this obvious one hasn't come up?:
http://www.queenzone.com/articles/open-letter-to-brian-from-joe-elliot-def-leppard.aspx

I dunno, man, Muse's 'United States Of Eurasia' features a very obvious Queen rip!

well, Muse are a good example of a band who use enough Queen-style vocal and guitar sounds to make it obvious

I heard a ton of Queen in Jellyfish's music.

Jellyfish were well known Queen fans

I'd wager Redd Kross were too

I hear a hint of Queen in some Smashing Pumpkins' tracks, too.

Totally. Also, obvious, but Lady Gaga is named after "Radio Ga Ga" and certainly picks up (sometimes) on the kind of collective-redemption-through-joining-a-pop-anthem thing that people are articulating here.

re: high profile queen fans and 'influence'

http://a5.mzstatic.com/us/r30/Features/2a/da/92/dj.tkzccjcu.227x170-99.jpg

Totally. Also, obvious, but Lady Gaga is named after "Radio Ga Ga" and certainly picks up (sometimes) on the kind of collective-redemption-through-joining-a-pop-anthem thing that people are articulating here.

― Doctor Casino, Sunday, May 18, 2014 8:34 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

she also had Brian May play on a top 10 single

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9YMU0WeBwU&feature=kp

so yeah, queen

Yeah re, smashing pumpkins "Thru the eyes of ruby", the main riff anyway is very soaring brian may style

yeah but Queen didn't influence anyone shh

Citing Mercury's ethnicity as if it is some evidence that the band could not possibly have engaged in fascist aesthetics is nonsensical. Aesthetics exist to be appropriated and used by anyone. Whether or not they are employed well or not is the issue. I find Queen's employment of them creepy and troublesome, both because of the response they invoke in the audience and the sort of nausea that comes with seeing something employed in the service of genocide and oppression repurposed as something to be blithely enjoyed and accepted as "fun" or "theater".

Many xposts

And this isnt mel brooks we're talking about here. Champions/Rock You is not about taking the piss out of the self-proclaimed champions.

I didn't dispute that part of your argument. I just wanted to point out that it's a little more complicated than "Queen are white guys." I also wanted to point out that if you're going to invoke Hitler, it's probably worth mentioning that Hitler maybe wouldn't be supportive of a gay man of South Asian descent.

That said, I don't necessarily agree with your argument. My goal wasn't to bring up Mercury's ethnic identify as a slam-dunk point against your argument, but rather as a noteworthy fact that I think does stand in contrast to "Queen are white guys whose music invokes fascism"

Do I need to point out there were gay nazis, the swastika is south asian, parsis are technically aryan etc. All this is beside the point really but whatever.

What is important is that we all agree that Ernst Rohm would have loved Queen shows.

Joeks

And I guess my question is: what response did they invoke in their audience? I feel like the argument is actually moving away from actual evidence here. If Queen concerts were notorious for hate crimes and riots, then yeah, I think you'd have a great point there. And if that happened a lot and I'm just unaware of it, I'm happy to be learn more.

well, to be fair, freddie mercury DID have a moustache.

As a Jew I find it just a little unnerving to see crowds of Europeans screaming We Will Rock You to the rhythm of marching jackboots. Mercury could say that it wasnt his intention for it to sound threatening til the cows came home, all that would mean is that they were comfortable playing w alienating forms without a care for their implications. Which goes back to the narcissusm, monomania etc.

"killer queen" obviously about gay nazis.

haha how did i forget to bring up Yoü and I, i am definitely one of its bigger stans around here

http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130329111113/glee/images/4/4f/Cas-shake-head.gif

how come this is the only fuckin band that ever gets their pomp and grandeur called "fascistic" though? maybe maybe zeppelin gets it some but it's real fishy that Queen is like NOPE I HEAR ME SOME FASCISM when that's just the stadium rock feel: giant, triumphalist tunes aiming for a communal, gigantic feeling. it's like, is Ibiza also fascist? whole lotta people hittin' those peak music moments together and shouting at the same time!

Be happy to label some other bands aesthetics as fascist if itll make u feel better. This thread is about Queen tho.

Ibiza stuff is more pagan than fascist. Does that stuff even have lyrics?

oh for god's sake

Alfred otm.