why did rock critics hate Queen so much in the 1970s/80s?

I'd wager Redd Kross were too

I hear a hint of Queen in some Smashing Pumpkins' tracks, too.

Totally. Also, obvious, but Lady Gaga is named after "Radio Ga Ga" and certainly picks up (sometimes) on the kind of collective-redemption-through-joining-a-pop-anthem thing that people are articulating here.

re: high profile queen fans and 'influence'

http://a5.mzstatic.com/us/r30/Features/2a/da/92/dj.tkzccjcu.227x170-99.jpg

Totally. Also, obvious, but Lady Gaga is named after "Radio Ga Ga" and certainly picks up (sometimes) on the kind of collective-redemption-through-joining-a-pop-anthem thing that people are articulating here.

― Doctor Casino, Sunday, May 18, 2014 8:34 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

she also had Brian May play on a top 10 single

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9YMU0WeBwU&feature=kp

so yeah, queen

Yeah re, smashing pumpkins "Thru the eyes of ruby", the main riff anyway is very soaring brian may style

yeah but Queen didn't influence anyone shh

Citing Mercury's ethnicity as if it is some evidence that the band could not possibly have engaged in fascist aesthetics is nonsensical. Aesthetics exist to be appropriated and used by anyone. Whether or not they are employed well or not is the issue. I find Queen's employment of them creepy and troublesome, both because of the response they invoke in the audience and the sort of nausea that comes with seeing something employed in the service of genocide and oppression repurposed as something to be blithely enjoyed and accepted as "fun" or "theater".

Many xposts

And this isnt mel brooks we're talking about here. Champions/Rock You is not about taking the piss out of the self-proclaimed champions.

I didn't dispute that part of your argument. I just wanted to point out that it's a little more complicated than "Queen are white guys." I also wanted to point out that if you're going to invoke Hitler, it's probably worth mentioning that Hitler maybe wouldn't be supportive of a gay man of South Asian descent.

That said, I don't necessarily agree with your argument. My goal wasn't to bring up Mercury's ethnic identify as a slam-dunk point against your argument, but rather as a noteworthy fact that I think does stand in contrast to "Queen are white guys whose music invokes fascism"

Do I need to point out there were gay nazis, the swastika is south asian, parsis are technically aryan etc. All this is beside the point really but whatever.

What is important is that we all agree that Ernst Rohm would have loved Queen shows.

Joeks

And I guess my question is: what response did they invoke in their audience? I feel like the argument is actually moving away from actual evidence here. If Queen concerts were notorious for hate crimes and riots, then yeah, I think you'd have a great point there. And if that happened a lot and I'm just unaware of it, I'm happy to be learn more.

well, to be fair, freddie mercury DID have a moustache.

As a Jew I find it just a little unnerving to see crowds of Europeans screaming We Will Rock You to the rhythm of marching jackboots. Mercury could say that it wasnt his intention for it to sound threatening til the cows came home, all that would mean is that they were comfortable playing w alienating forms without a care for their implications. Which goes back to the narcissusm, monomania etc.

"killer queen" obviously about gay nazis.

haha how did i forget to bring up Yoü and I, i am definitely one of its bigger stans around here

http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130329111113/glee/images/4/4f/Cas-shake-head.gif

how come this is the only fuckin band that ever gets their pomp and grandeur called "fascistic" though? maybe maybe zeppelin gets it some but it's real fishy that Queen is like NOPE I HEAR ME SOME FASCISM when that's just the stadium rock feel: giant, triumphalist tunes aiming for a communal, gigantic feeling. it's like, is Ibiza also fascist? whole lotta people hittin' those peak music moments together and shouting at the same time!

Be happy to label some other bands aesthetics as fascist if itll make u feel better. This thread is about Queen tho.

Ibiza stuff is more pagan than fascist. Does that stuff even have lyrics?

oh for god's sake

Alfred otm.

"bohemian rhapsody" obviously a wagnerian epic celebrating hitler's annexation of bohemia.

yeah but it's not just you. Queen got this rep hung on them back then when others didn't. Def Lepperd sold more records with a way more fascistic sound but Queen's the band who OH NO STOMPING JACKBOOTS. When, like...the music of fascism is rather more the Carpenters than Queen.

Ibiza stuff is more pagan than fascist.

ha, this is exactly the point of what I'm saying. you'll re-cast Ibiza to your liking, but Queen - genuinely bacchanalian by all accounts, long, generous concerts and afterparties that dragged on for days, sentimental balladry at the piano amidst the pomp, and resolutely cross-pollinating musically, incorporating disco into their supposedly fascist groove - nossir, that's fascism straight down the line all right

Oddly one of the only other examples I can think of with the marching boots as rhythm thing is Lennon's Power to the People. Which is more socialist I suppose what with the lyrics.

I dont really know anything about Ibiza tbh

Please leave the Carpenters alone.

fascists are into paganism fwiw they consider themselves true connoisseurs of the pagan soul

clemenza I love the Carpenters and will defend them all day but you know and I know that they would have annexed Norwalk and the City of Commerce in a New York minute

I share aero's love of the Carpenters. Not sure I wanna know what he means.

Lol xp

Maybe it's just the sports associations, but I've always heard the rhythm of "We Will Rock You" as stomping on bleachers.

And yes I am familiar w fascisms historical connection to paganism (peron kind of a funny exceptuon iirc)

we will we will shakey

new thread idea: comparing fascist subtexts in the carpenters' "top of the world" and queen's "we are the champions."

Aesthetics exist to be appropriated and used by anyone. Whether or not they are employed well or not is the issue. I find Queen's employment of them creepy and troublesome, both because of the response they invoke in the audience and the sort of nausea that comes with seeing something employed in the service of genocide and oppression repurposed as something to be blithely enjoyed and accepted as "fun" or "theater".

grandstanding, populist triumphalism seems far too broad a category to be summarily dismissed as "fascist aesthetics". the fact that fascists are/were attracted to heroic pomp not render it intrinsically fascist. as i see it, abstract things like a particular artistic approach can be meaningfully fascist only in function or intent. it's not like they were writing songs that specifically recall nazi marches, or that enlist the listener in any even quasi-fascist purpose. seems more sensible to criticize their cultivation of a self-satisfying grandeur. the sound is gluttonous, decadent. not fascist.

^ ...does not render it...

also, it seems weird to discuss queen's use of vainglorious, macho, vaguely military pomp without figuring certain other factors into the equation...

were rush called fascists?

of course -- look at their mustaches and Ayn Rands

@contenderizer I think what you were getting at was covered in this statement from above:

Do I need to point out there were gay nazis

i'm suggesting that gay aesthetics might be worth considering, not simply excusing apparent fascism by pointing out mercury's orientation

No, I'm in total agreement with you; I was trying to make a point and failed. When I see an image like this:

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2011/11/24/1322150712400/Freddie-Mercury-of-Queen-007.jpg

...it definitely complicates any fascist aesthetic attributed to Queen.

shakey do you like sparks?

is Οὖτις for fucking real itt or have I eaten mushrooms without knowing