That's an EP/mini-album, isn't it? So it doesn't fit the criteria for this poll.
― MacDara, Sunday, 23 December 2007 22:29 (sixteen years ago) link
Indeed
― Herman G. Neuname, Sunday, 23 December 2007 22:33 (sixteen years ago) link
I wonder who would win best Black Flag vocalist poll.
― Herman G. Neuname, Sunday, 23 December 2007 23:00 (sixteen years ago) link
Objectively, Chavo is probably the better singer of the four. But personally I dig Dez's gravelly bark and Rollins' angry-man schtick.
― MacDara, Sunday, 23 December 2007 23:18 (sixteen years ago) link
Dez would probably get my vote too.
― Herman G. Neuname, Sunday, 23 December 2007 23:19 (sixteen years ago) link
Has anyone got the 1982 demos bootleg?
― Herman G. Neuname, Monday, 24 December 2007 00:04 (sixteen years ago) link
Found a link from a blog but it had expired :( I know someone who has it, so I'll ask tomorrow for it.
― Herman G. Neuname, Monday, 24 December 2007 00:17 (sixteen years ago) link
i picked My War
― chaki, Monday, 24 December 2007 00:27 (sixteen years ago) link
Damaged, easily. First Four Years is a close second.
― circa1916, Monday, 24 December 2007 01:01 (sixteen years ago) link
Damaged, easy choice.
― Pashmina, Monday, 24 December 2007 01:09 (sixteen years ago) link
I heard Everything Went Black before I heard Damaged. They play so tight on the Chavo/Dez songs on EWB that Damaged just sounded too loose and shambolic to me, like a rehearsal tape or something. Therefore, I don't like it as much.
― MacDara, Monday, 24 December 2007 09:11 (sixteen years ago) link
Slip It In
― groovemaaan, Monday, 24 December 2007 09:50 (sixteen years ago) link
I don't like Rollins at all. But I love doom. So, My War it is.
― Nate Carson, Monday, 24 December 2007 11:17 (sixteen years ago) link
Fuck vocals; Slip It In wins for me because of Bill Stevenson's drumming on the title track and on "The Bars."
― unperson, Monday, 24 December 2007 13:40 (sixteen years ago) link
Will Family Man get any votes?
I'm not voting for it, but I don't hate it, even though it runs through my head every year when I'm up on the ladder putting up xmas lights.
― drench, Monday, 24 December 2007 15:49 (sixteen years ago) link
I think the opposite is true if one has heard Damaged first, though. The Chavo/Dez versions on Everything Went Black sound too tight to me. That approach works better for the band's earlier material but I prefer the fuzzier, angrier and more chaotic approach they went for Damaged.
Damaged is the only Black Flag record where Rollins' voice truly suits the material, IMO. On Damaged it's like everything lined up right.
― latebloomer, Monday, 24 December 2007 16:23 (sixteen years ago) link
you are making me regret voting for EWB.
― GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ, Monday, 24 December 2007 16:28 (sixteen years ago) link
yeah, latebloomer otm. the chaos of Damaged is what makes it great for me.
― sleeve, Monday, 24 December 2007 16:33 (sixteen years ago) link
Yeah, Damaged is my pick too.
― Alex in SF, Monday, 24 December 2007 17:33 (sixteen years ago) link
My War just barely over First Four Years and Damaged.
What a great band
― If Assholes Could Fly This Place Would Be An Airport, Monday, 24 December 2007 18:15 (sixteen years ago) link
I love Damaged but the humorous songs kind of keep it from having the same impact as My War. TV Party works for me in the Repo Man soundtrack a lot better than it does in the context of this album.
― Nate Carson, Monday, 24 December 2007 21:14 (sixteen years ago) link
The humorous songs are what keep Damaged from being so unrelentingly dark. My War is almost too much to take in one sitting.
― leavethecapital, Monday, 24 December 2007 22:05 (sixteen years ago) link
True
― Herman G. Neuname, Tuesday, 25 December 2007 01:49 (sixteen years ago) link
bump
― Herman G. Neuname, Friday, 28 December 2007 02:25 (sixteen years ago) link
In September 2003, Black Flag played three reunion shows, two at the Hollywood Palladium and one at Alex's Bar in Long Beach, to benefit cat rescue organizations (a current passion of Ginn's)
?!?
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Friday, 28 December 2007 02:36 (sixteen years ago) link
Since no Process of Weeding Out, I vote My War, though it deeply pains me to have to not-vote for Damaged.
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Friday, 28 December 2007 02:46 (sixteen years ago) link
it wasnt a real reunion.
― chaki, Friday, 28 December 2007 03:17 (sixteen years ago) link
For reasons I can't fully explain, In My Head.
― bendy, Friday, 28 December 2007 03:33 (sixteen years ago) link
The ?!? had more to do with the randomness of "cat rescue" than anything else, chak. Why was it not a real reunion though?
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Friday, 28 December 2007 03:34 (sixteen years ago) link
it was just dez, greg and robo. keith morris was going to sing but backed out when ginn told him it was for cat rescue and he would not get paid.
― chaki, Friday, 28 December 2007 03:40 (sixteen years ago) link
sucks
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Friday, 28 December 2007 04:34 (sixteen years ago) link
Wonder if there will ever be a reunion with Rollins
― Herman G. Neuname, Friday, 28 December 2007 12:47 (sixteen years ago) link
I doubt it. Greg Ginn burnt his bridges with a lot of people over the years. And according to that New York Times article from a couple of years ago, he's been estranged from his brother Raymond for a long time, too.
― MacDara, Friday, 28 December 2007 15:32 (sixteen years ago) link
It's kinda sad, actually. Raymond Pettibon has been getting more and more recognition over time (and deservedly so, I might add) but we're already at the stage where people are more likely to say 'Greg Who?' and associate the Flag with Rollins exclusively.
― MacDara, Friday, 28 December 2007 15:35 (sixteen years ago) link
First Four Years, for me. First one I heard. I go home and listen to "I've heard it Before" when I've had a bad day at work.
― Trip Maker, Friday, 28 December 2007 16:16 (sixteen years ago) link
MACHINE
― sexyDancer, Friday, 28 December 2007 16:43 (sixteen years ago) link
Don't need your bogus attitude, got enough of my own!
― Trip Maker, Friday, 28 December 2007 16:51 (sixteen years ago) link
WON'T WORK
― sexyDancer, Friday, 28 December 2007 16:57 (sixteen years ago) link
greg ginn is a huge cat lover. i was gonna interview him for cat fancy once, but it fell through.
― artdamages, Friday, 28 December 2007 19:13 (sixteen years ago) link
its ilx and no pussy jokes yet?
― Herman G. Neuname, Saturday, 29 December 2007 04:38 (sixteen years ago) link
Who's Got the 10½?
― Herman G. Neuname, Monday, 31 December 2007 01:59 (sixteen years ago) link
I've only heard Damaged and My War, so I don't feel exactly qualified to vote in this poll. But you figure one of them is going to win either way, so Damaged it is.
― Ivan, Monday, 31 December 2007 02:12 (sixteen years ago) link
Cant see anything other than Damaged winning even though more people have posted they prefer the first four years, you know lurkers will go with damaged.
― Herman G. Neuname, Monday, 31 December 2007 17:46 (sixteen years ago) link
Damaged just barely over The First Four Years.
― nicky lo-fi, Monday, 31 December 2007 19:37 (sixteen years ago) link
and the non lurkers :)
― Herman G. Neuname, Monday, 31 December 2007 23:09 (sixteen years ago) link
who is doing the best Black Flag vocalist poll?
― Herman G. Neuname, Tuesday, 1 January 2008 14:30 (sixteen years ago) link
Damaged of course but I always loved that Live 1984 cassette esp. the slow-building intro
― m coleman, Tuesday, 1 January 2008 14:38 (sixteen years ago) link
I still to this day only own Damaged. What should I listen to next? (I liked Damaged).
― Bo Jackson Overdrive, Tuesday, 1 January 2008 15:14 (sixteen years ago) link
The First Four Years
― Herman G. Neuname, Tuesday, 1 January 2008 15:15 (sixteen years ago) link
My War was decent enough, but it fell greatly below my expectations with regards to the second side. Often described as total sludge, I mostly found it boring (a lot may have had to do with the album's production, actually).
That first song is a whopper.
Anyway, I will go listen to The First Four Years and probably want to change my vote.
― Ivan, Wednesday, 2 January 2008 00:11 (sixteen years ago) link
this was last night at MacArthur Park btw
― No Broehner (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 22 July 2011 18:12 (twelve years ago) link
lol there were no cops, security was actually a lot nicer than at most outdoor shows
― puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Friday, 22 July 2011 18:13 (twelve years ago) link
those aren't cops stage left? they're in uniform, no?
― i'm not a lawyer, but i play one on a messageboard (stevie), Friday, 22 July 2011 18:17 (twelve years ago) link
they were rentacop venue security, got a little bugged out after not doing anything about 30 mins of stage diving because for the past few years the venue has only really hosted world music shows, but all this is beside the point really, it was a great show, good sound, fun crowd
― puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Friday, 22 July 2011 18:26 (twelve years ago) link
ah, gotcha.
GREEN with envy not to have been there, btw!
― i'm not a lawyer, but i play one on a messageboard (stevie), Friday, 22 July 2011 18:58 (twelve years ago) link
whole thing is here
― No Broehner (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 22 July 2011 19:52 (twelve years ago) link
i always heard bad things about In My Head but this is pretty awesome, kinda weird twisted heavy metal
― lorde willin' (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 25 October 2013 22:17 (ten years ago) link
Has this been posted anywhere?
http://trickledown.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/blackflaghair_chronology.jpg
― Josefa, Friday, 25 October 2013 23:29 (ten years ago) link
If I'd seen this picture before, say, today I'd have made it my profile picture on FB.
― RAP GAME SHANI DAVIS (Raymond Cummings), Wednesday, 15 October 2014 00:17 (nine years ago) link
shouts out to kira and bill for absolutely killing it on "the bars"
― american bradass (BradNelson), Wednesday, 22 May 2019 17:49 (five years ago) link
think slip it in is my fav black flag record these days
I feel that
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 22 May 2019 23:00 (five years ago) link
As I said way the fuck upthread:
― shared unit of analysis (unperson), Wednesday, 22 May 2019 23:08 (five years ago) link
i often forget that both of the live records are really great
― mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Friday, 25 September 2020 15:19 (three years ago) link
who the fuck voted for Family Man??
― sleeve, Friday, 25 September 2020 15:25 (three years ago) link
i like their style tbh
― mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Friday, 25 September 2020 15:27 (three years ago) link
rollins' early writing is kinda charmingly amateurish to me, like very self-consciously Dark and Heavy, Man while also getting very playful and silly. "armageddon man" + the instrumental side are great and have always been imo
― mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Friday, 25 September 2020 15:30 (three years ago) link
OK good point on the instrumentals
― sleeve, Friday, 25 September 2020 15:33 (three years ago) link
the timeline of this band is fucking wild to me. early singles with lineup shifts seemingly every few seconds -> damaged -> two years of legally being unable to record -> five studio albums in two years -> break up
― mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Friday, 25 September 2020 15:42 (three years ago) link
x-post
I did not vote for Family Man but I bet my finger hovered over the button for a few seconds
Not mention in two yrs being unable to record they went through three drummers!
An insane band
― chr1sb3singer, Friday, 25 September 2020 16:20 (three years ago) link
would prob vote for in my head at this point, beautifully deranged record
rollins/ginn/roessler/stevenson is objectively the best lineup of this band
― flamenco drop (BradNelson), Thursday, 14 April 2022 15:48 (two years ago) link
Their most iconic work (Damaged) is not their best. This I am sure of. Mostly because it sounds like absolute dogshit. It’s not even the good kind of crappy production. Muddy is OK with hardcore (cf. the Bad Brains ROIR debut); paper-thin bass and drums is not.
― thewufs, Thursday, 14 April 2022 17:01 (two years ago) link
First Four Years is my go-to, but those last two records are intriguing and I need to revisit them.
― thewufs, Thursday, 14 April 2022 17:03 (two years ago) link
all you really need is whos got the 10 1/2 and damaged!
― xzanfar, Thursday, 14 April 2022 17:17 (two years ago) link
Much as I have trouble with Rollins, it'd have to be a tie between Damaged (though the occasional goofiness detracts) and My War (esp. when they get into that proto-Caspar Brotzmann Massaker slow groove). Can only dream of how great those records would have been with Dez singing.
― atonar, Thursday, 14 April 2022 17:33 (two years ago) link
Muddy is OK with hardcore (cf. the Bad Brains ROIR debut); paper-thin bass and drums is not.
I've only ever owned a beaten-up vinyl copy of Damaged but it sounds great and not paper-thin to my ears (I've always thought SST CDs sounded p bad)
― politics is about vibes and the vibes are off (stevie), Thursday, 14 April 2022 17:35 (two years ago) link
damaged is totally their best-sounding record.... lol
i do love the watery flooded basement sound where every instrument feels like it's recorded separately yet is still slightly out of sync
― flamenco drop (BradNelson), Thursday, 14 April 2022 17:42 (two years ago) link
in the best cases (second side of my war, entirety of in my head it serves the murky confusion of the music itself
― flamenco drop (BradNelson), Thursday, 14 April 2022 17:46 (two years ago) link
Damaged sounds physical, like you're being whalloped by a heavy object or something
― politics is about vibes and the vibes are off (stevie), Thursday, 14 April 2022 17:47 (two years ago) link
Anyone notice that The Stains, the early SST band whose freak guitar arguably influenced Ginn's guitar style, just started an instagram page? Their debut is brilliant, and costs $$$ and has never been reissued.
― politics is about vibes and the vibes are off (stevie), Thursday, 14 April 2022 17:48 (two years ago) link
otm - great album
― even the birds in the trees seemed to whisper "get fucked" (bovarism), Friday, 15 April 2022 01:24 (two years ago) link
Black Flag records do sound pretty murky - sometimes wonder if someone accidentally turned the treble down when they were mixing the albums
― even the birds in the trees seemed to whisper "get fucked" (bovarism), Friday, 15 April 2022 01:26 (two years ago) link
The treble supply was used up making the Husker Du records.
― bendy, Friday, 15 April 2022 02:09 (two years ago) link
lmao
― flamenco drop (BradNelson), Friday, 15 April 2022 02:16 (two years ago) link
also lmao
people say oh well it was an underground punk label they had a low budget but I think we have to accept that SST were just shit at recording punk music. there are loads of punk labels and bands from that time with a lot less sales than SST that sound way better
― even the birds in the trees seemed to whisper "get fucked" (bovarism), Friday, 15 April 2022 02:18 (two years ago) link
like Dischord releases from then sure they sound a little thin maybe but it blares out of the speakers
― even the birds in the trees seemed to whisper "get fucked" (bovarism), Friday, 15 April 2022 02:20 (two years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sp_x1BIGwUs
hello
― flamenco drop (BradNelson), Friday, 15 April 2022 02:38 (two years ago) link
I think a lot of it is Spot's aesthetic. But also, those records are what they are, and I don't know if production can always be plotted on an axis of good/bad. And Meat Puppets II still sounds divine to me.
― politics is about vibes and the vibes are off (stevie), Friday, 15 April 2022 08:06 (two years ago) link
Blight would have been a better nickname for Spot
― Maresn3st, Friday, 15 April 2022 10:56 (two years ago) link
My fav recording of the band was teh one time I saw them marquee 84. the 4 piece with Kira and Bill Stephenson. Seemed to have an element of Link Wray or similar buried in the sound alongside the writhing heaviosity. Not sure if that comes out as much elsewhere . Didn't seem to feature in Live 84 to what I could hear, I know the live video was within a couple of days of that Marquee gig so may be there. Do wonder how different taht band would have been if Kira had been writing her own parts. Not sure how long jam sessions worked with her using lines Ginn had given her. Anyway do love that sound in 84 and that particular live set is one that I have probably listened to more than any other live set. The material they were recording around taht time sounds really great in the form of the 5 piece band with Dukowski still on bass and Cadena on 2nd guitar in the recordings of the final days of that lineup and the demoes introducing the material .But that heavy, writhing thing that I think was a major influence on the stoner rock of a few years later is so great. I think it was heavily disliked in the hardcore scene at the time but presumably must have been influential there too.THink the band might be another one that was much better live. & My War was recorded with Ginn on bass under a pseudonym so means tha teh set up presumably wasn't as great as it could be. I assume the best set up for recording would have been as close to live as possible certainly not with a whole part being missing. Doesn't that effect spontaneity etc. & i thought improvisation was part of teh sound by tht point at least. I do like Damaged a lot too
― Stevolende, Friday, 15 April 2022 12:22 (two years ago) link
Love the Bill and Kira era rhythm section, and often think of what Kira told me while I was researching my Flag book, that she and Bill would rehearse the songs at half-speed, and slowly increase the tempo, so they could be both fast and heavy.
― politics is about vibes and the vibes are off (stevie), Friday, 15 April 2022 17:20 (two years ago) link
I appreciated that part of the interviews, yes
Damaged sounds amazing, wtf. listen too "What I See" for the full bass/drum overload attack
― thinkmanship (sleeve), Friday, 15 April 2022 17:24 (two years ago) link
would love to hear the rhythm section playing together with anybody else. has that happened at all? Like her now ex Mike Watt spent like half his career playing around in different combinations often pretty pick up, so taht wasn't a habit she got into at all was it. Like not sure who else she played with at all outside of BF & Dos with Mike Watt.
― Stevolende, Friday, 15 April 2022 19:22 (two years ago) link
My opinion on Damaged is a big challop (controp?), one of the only ones I actually have about a canonical record. But I only know the CD - maybe a poor master was the problem. But I also don't have the same issue with any Husker Du before Candy Apple Grey, or even most other Spot productions. Damaged just sounds thin, thin, thin to me. Anemic. I was SO disappointed when I got it as a teenager, and unlike a lot of other consensus classics it never grew on me with repeat listens. And I blame the production. Just not my style.
What can I say - I hate tinny-ass drum sounds. Took me decades to really appreciate something as foundational as the 808 in rap, for instance, but I got there eventually. Maybe I'll come around on Damaged, too. Songwriting-wise, I like the first side fine. And I do love the cover.
― thewufs, Friday, 15 April 2022 19:43 (two years ago) link
And sound quality aside, I'd still argue that First Four Years beats Damaged song-for-song. I'll take Bad Brains or Minor Threat over pretty much any Black Flag, though. BF were funnier, I'll give them that.
― thewufs, Friday, 15 April 2022 19:50 (two years ago) link
Spot was a terrible producer, face it. Almost everything he touched could have sounded much better. But it is what it is.
― akm, Friday, 15 April 2022 22:27 (two years ago) link