The Prodigy - Always Outnumbered, Never Outgunned

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AONU may seem like Howlett-by-numbers

it's absolutely not, though!! where's the mentasms?? where's the rush?? even "smack my bitch up" had those crazy ascending synths that seemed to be on every track on the 1st two albums. the new one just sounds like out-of-date nu skool breaks tracks.

vahid (vahid), Monday, 19 July 2004 18:48 (nineteen years ago) link

To directly answer Ronan's last point, I would never try to defend this album in terms of relevance because I do not use "relevance to the scene" as a criterion for determining whether something is good. My sneering tone is because I harbor the prejudice that people who do don't actually like music.

"Girls" itself is a great track but the majority of the album doesn't live up to it. It's nice enough but isn't nearly enough fun to listen to as previous efforts; half the tracks seem unfocused and unfinished.

VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 19 July 2004 18:50 (nineteen years ago) link

ha, as if mentasm wasn't out of date! this goes back to timing tho i suppose (i.e. yes i wouldn't mind hearing old rave sounds in new tracks again but i don't think Howlett would and there was always more to his sound/influences than that)

the neurotic awakening of s (blueski), Monday, 19 July 2004 18:50 (nineteen years ago) link

x-post: yeah but can't you use "relevance to the scene" as shorthand for another criterion?? like "this wouldn't go down well in kingston" as shorthand for particularly clumsy or inept programming on a dancehall riddim?

vahid (vahid), Monday, 19 July 2004 18:52 (nineteen years ago) link

actually steve raises a good point, no I didn't expect the album to be good, but this is the point, it does bug me that there's still a fuss. And furthermore I never made relevance the holy grail, you took that ball and ran with it. I simply said the Prodigy are entirely removed from dance culture, and on the NYLPM thread I stated a clear case as to why.

Now if I wasn't going to have to read about this toss as a dance album and see it featured in dance sections all fucking year then maybe I could just say "ok who cares". But that's not the case.

Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 19 July 2004 18:52 (nineteen years ago) link

x-post: mentasm, along with reese basslines and one or two other things that i can't remember right now are THE GREAT CONSTANTS OF DANCE.

vahid (vahid), Monday, 19 July 2004 18:52 (nineteen years ago) link

kool keith and ced gee samples, that's constant #3.

vahid (vahid), Monday, 19 July 2004 18:54 (nineteen years ago) link

i haven't really noticed the fuss Ronan. but then i'm not reading any magazines or listening to much TV/radio

great constants of dance of constants of great dance?? either way that doesn't sound like much of a good reason for Howlett using them again (why retread older ground as opposed to old ground??!)

the neurotic awakening of s (blueski), Monday, 19 July 2004 18:56 (nineteen years ago) link

tho i guess Kool Keith usage would be even older, hmmmmm

the neurotic awakening of s (blueski), Monday, 19 July 2004 18:56 (nineteen years ago) link

Now if I wasn't going to have to read about this toss as a dance album and see it featured in dance sections all fucking year then maybe I could just say "ok who cares". But that's not the case.

oh come on! 'Girls' is a DANCE track, i'm sure there are others on there too. of course Prodigy should still be written about in dance mags. perhaps the crick for some is they'll get equal (ok probably more) coverage in Kerrang. but if Orbital are covered by dance press still then Prodigy definitely should be.

the neurotic awakening of s (blueski), Monday, 19 July 2004 18:59 (nineteen years ago) link

the main problem with the new prodigy album is the absence of hi-hats and voices going "j--j-j-j-j-j-j-jack JACK, JACK JACK, j-j-j-JACK JACK"

x-post it's barely a dance track. too caught up its in own identity.

Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 19 July 2004 19:00 (nineteen years ago) link

If it isn't a dance album, what is it? It isn't pop, rock, folk, country, baroque, Renaissance, R&B, hip-hop, gosepl, etc etc etc.

VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 19 July 2004 19:26 (nineteen years ago) link

it is pop/rock anyway.

Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 19 July 2004 19:27 (nineteen years ago) link

You've got to be kidding.

VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 19 July 2004 19:28 (nineteen years ago) link

I'm not, but anyway your question only serves to highlight what a crawlspace the record inhabits.

Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 19 July 2004 19:39 (nineteen years ago) link

x-post it's barely a dance track. too caught up its in own identity.

sorry but this is insanity. if people can dance to Freq Nasty, Pilgrem, Stantons, Plump DJs, Jedi Knights then they can dance to this. it's not even that far away from 'Satisfaction' really - imagine a 4/4 over it if you must. i understand the 'dated' argument perfectly but you seem to be getting at something else which i don't recognise at all - the 'being tired of Prodigy being regarded by too many people as at forefront of dance' is also understandood but who does that now? really? THAT's irrelevant. only...Prodigy singles have a habit of this 'problem', caught between stools as the singles from MFTJG and FOTL were too (Paul Oakenfold played 'Skylined', Jon Carter played 'Mindfields', just as two examples but generally Howlett seemed the outsider, either too pop or not enough). Same thing seems to be happening again, but really I'm only re-iterating my comments on NYLPM here.

the neurotic awakening of s (blueski), Monday, 19 July 2004 22:36 (nineteen years ago) link

just heard it in a mates house,thought it was terrible
my mate was downloading it,he doesnt really know anything about music except late nineties techno,at one point he goes "does it sometimes happen that you download an album and its just not what it says it is at all"
it does sound like them most of the time,but it seemed really tired and dated sounding,not dated even,more like i can imagine if there had been a fad for music that sounded like it a few years ago but everyone just decided it sounded a bit shit

and it may be music you can dance to but it doesnt seem like dance music,there are no tracks as such
dunno specifically what song people are talking about but i cant imagine any of the tracks been played at a rave or anything,wheras all the classic prodigy tracks ive heard at raves and parties,even up to smack my bitch up

i suppose i shouldnt judge it on one listen,but i cant imagine being arsed listening to it again
i'll probably end up hearing it somewhere though

robin (robin), Tuesday, 20 July 2004 02:26 (nineteen years ago) link

also did anyone else notice the track that sounded *exactly* like thriller?

robin (robin), Tuesday, 20 July 2004 02:27 (nineteen years ago) link

no it wouldn't be played at 'raves' but we are talking seven years since last album tho nothing from that would've been heard at any UK rave or free party anywhere either surely. i remember finding it odd that 'Breathe' appeared on quite a few housey compilations in '96 - Oakenfold even played it right before the Chems came on at Homelands '99, went down well. 'Girls' feels more clubbier than 'Breathe', something between pure electro revivalism of Jedi Knights 'Antacid' and more recent electroclash/breaks fusion. Would be interesting to see it remixed by someone new tho (or even JLC or someone like that). Shame that probably won't happen.

the neurotic awakening of s (blueski), Tuesday, 20 July 2004 08:15 (nineteen years ago) link

The track that sounds like "Thriller" is pretty much the bassline from the "Thriller" coda.

It's like Liam decided to make a Fatboy Slim album.

VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 20 July 2004 11:24 (nineteen years ago) link

This is like Max Powersauce dance music. Like the kind of thing you would hear on a snowboarding video. I dont like it when people use the term 'relevant', I think it's bullshit even when someones deeming R.E.M. not relevant anymore. Yet The Prodigy's sound is still very much stuck in the nineties. Maybe its been co-opted by horrible Lucozade ads and the like. It was disappointing to see Howlett go from a sample-happy ‘ardcore rave urchin who wouldn’t listen to a guitar unless it was a Floyd record while he was coming down to a boring rockist who said things like “Nevermind the bollocks” is the greatest album ever.

'Girls' is still really good all the same.

Michael B, Tuesday, 20 July 2004 11:48 (nineteen years ago) link

It's NOTHING like he decided to make a Fatboy Slim album!!! For starters it's drenched in that awful late 90s badboyism of theirs, Fatboy couldn't be bad if he tried.

Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 22 July 2004 10:01 (nineteen years ago) link

i took Dan's comment to mean it's Howlett doing a free thing and not caring too much what dance purists say - that's pretty much been his plan with every album tho. i'm confused what's meant by bad tho! for the record i'm not sure i could deal with another Fatboy album either but who knows really...late 90s hate will continue to get my goat in the meantime tho

the neurotic awakening of s (blueski), Thursday, 22 July 2004 10:49 (nineteen years ago) link

I will listen to another Fatboy album if it's any good!

Apparently he's making a hiphop/funk record though which sounds awful.

Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 22 July 2004 10:55 (nineteen years ago) link

i really really like that lp cover though. its ace!
i've only ever liked 1 prodigy song. diesel power.

piscesboy, Thursday, 22 July 2004 16:39 (nineteen years ago) link

three weeks pass...
this really is pretty awful - the menace is there but nothing else. 'Action Radar' is just a bad video game but the bass guitar sounds just pail when you think about how great 'Full Throttle' can still sound with it's gongs and deep bass. 'Medusa's Path' is crying out for a couple of lines from Maxim but without that it's just fucking boring. After the first few tracks the album is actually unpleasant to lisen to, but I never dug early 90s industrial-metal which is all this is really, with the possible exception of 'The Way It Is', I do like the fucking with 'Thriller' but perhaps not explored enough, or neat idea not followed through as well as could be (Basement Jaxx could do something with 'Thriller' and it'd just FEEL better right?). Fuck the Liam G collab also.

the neurotic awakening of s (blueski), Thursday, 12 August 2004 13:02 (nineteen years ago) link

I can see it getting good reviews everywhere tho - is this the case? Crazy.

the neurotic awakening of s (blueski), Thursday, 12 August 2004 13:03 (nineteen years ago) link

That Ace Howlett/Lennon Gallagher/Wolf Gillespie record in 2025 is sure gonna suck at this rate...

the neurotic awakening of s (blueski), Thursday, 12 August 2004 13:05 (nineteen years ago) link

Wolf won't even make it into the band - he'll have been strung out on several brands of narcotics for well over a decade. Lennon will be an almie and Ace a bore.

R.I.M.A. (Barima), Thursday, 12 August 2004 13:19 (nineteen years ago) link

"almie" = "alkie". Damn keyboard.

R.I.M.A. (Barima), Thursday, 12 August 2004 13:19 (nineteen years ago) link

wow. this is really pretty dire. but i quite like the absurdity of 'spitfire', its cheekiness and full-on start reminds me of firestarter, although it's only a vague buzz, verging on nostalgia. i guess that the kool keith track is a pretty neat hip hop jam, and 'girls' is some very well crafted big beat electro.
but apart from that i think i have to agreee with steve-o: this actually gets straight up unpleasant to listen to as it goes along. both because it hurts my head like ears like, say, 20-30 dogs, but also because it's quite depressing to hear liam go down like this. although it was predictable.

Jay Kid (Jay K), Monday, 16 August 2004 15:12 (nineteen years ago) link

please forget the weird "like ears" in the second last line.

Jay Kid (Jay K), Monday, 16 August 2004 15:13 (nineteen years ago) link

It's easily the worst Prodigy album but I don't really mind it.

VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 16 August 2004 15:21 (nineteen years ago) link

'Phoenix' MIGHT grow on me...'You Will Be Under My Wheels' scores half a point for incorporating FOTL cast-off 'Rock N' Roll'...I would seriously release 'The Way It Is' as a single and then quit albums forever

the neurotic awakening of s (blueski), Monday, 16 August 2004 15:26 (nineteen years ago) link

(he's probably going to release 'Shoot Down' - AT CHRISTMAS - and then win Best Dance Act at the Brits)

the neurotic awakening of s (blueski), Monday, 16 August 2004 15:27 (nineteen years ago) link

okay:
'spitfire' is lovingly popmpous
the bell theme on 'memphis bells' is kina sorta nice.
never mind the rest. it hurts my head and makes me sad.

Jay Kid (Jay K), Monday, 16 August 2004 18:58 (nineteen years ago) link

RIP Prodigy.

This album is terrible.

Mr. Snrub, Monday, 16 August 2004 20:33 (nineteen years ago) link

let's leave it there.

This career has been terminated by Mr. Howlett.

Jay Kid (Jay K), Monday, 16 August 2004 20:42 (nineteen years ago) link

three weeks pass...
Okay, certain songs on here have completely snuck up on me even though they sound unfinished (the entire sequence from "Memphis Bells" through "Wake Up Call" specifically).

Dan Perry '08 (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 19:54 (nineteen years ago) link

Actually, include "Action Radar" in there, too. Who knew that this album had a four week incubation period?

Dan Perry '08 (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 20:29 (nineteen years ago) link

God, I'm so fucking predictable. I love this album now. WTF???

Dan Perry '08 (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 20:47 (nineteen years ago) link

(haha obviously no one cares)

Dan Perry '08 (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 21:39 (nineteen years ago) link

Interview with Liam now up on http://www.jameshyman.com/production/radio.html

Only mildly revealing but I can't recall him giving a radio interview in the UK before EVER so...

I want to check them out live at Brixton I think, just to see how it's actually gonna work

the neurotic awakening of s (blueski), Friday, 10 September 2004 15:02 (nineteen years ago) link

This might be of interest to the hataz:

http://www.prodigyremixed.com/tracklist.html

I've not heard the original or the remixes, having not bothered to buy/blag the former and having no means to use bit torrent. So, your thoughts please - compare and contrast etc.

Bet it's not as good as Parkspliced...

CharlieNo4 (Charlie), Monday, 13 September 2004 15:25 (nineteen years ago) link

I rather like this album. It's no classic, but it's at least ten times better than I expected. I like how Liam has managed to incorporate recent developments in dance music into his sound without it sounding like bandwagon jumping.

Wooden (Wooden), Monday, 13 September 2004 15:32 (nineteen years ago) link

what recent developments do you see him incorporating?

artdamages (artdamages), Monday, 13 September 2004 16:22 (nineteen years ago) link

the 'Girls' vocal does seem a bit electroclash-bandwagon I think, but I don't mind that

the neurotic awakening of s (blueski), Monday, 13 September 2004 16:26 (nineteen years ago) link

I'm enjoying this album a lot! Haven't really thought about it on a what-they-should-be-doing level at all cuz it sounds NOTHING like the three or four songs I know.

manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 13 September 2004 19:29 (nineteen years ago) link

and there's nothing like cranky, miserable technoids talking about relevance to make me not feel bad about not hearing this stuff in that context.

manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 13 September 2004 19:39 (nineteen years ago) link

in that case perhaps language you can understand would suit best.

IT'S A PIECE OF SHIT.

Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 13 September 2004 19:40 (nineteen years ago) link

both this one & Invaders are really good records. I love Fat but had very little invested in the band otherwise, the feeling I get from people who hate on later Prodigy is they have very specific if-you-grow-it-will-be-in-this-direction expectations of the band. they're basically just big-beat rock and roll albums though. that is cool w/me. they're really good big-beat rock and roll albums.

she carries a torch. two torches, actually (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Thursday, 17 August 2017 15:39 (six years ago) link


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