Rolling Metal Thread 2009

Also should be noted that not much goth/dark/pagan -metal actually does sound like Joy Division (or the Swans, or Enigma, or Kate Bush, or Cocteau Twins, or Fairport Convention, or the Pogues, etc.) (In fact, a metal band that actually sounded like Joy Division might be refreshing in its own right!) A lot of it probably tries to sound like Joy Division and fails, though; I can hear that. And too many such bands do sound alike, sure. But plenty of such bands sound different than each other, too. And by definition, those differences take a lot less work to grasp than differences between bands working within a much more prescribed template. (I say this, though, as somebody who loved a lot of goth/dark metal seven or eight years ago, but who's been pretty burned out on it for the past several years. So I'm hardly an apologist for the stuff. Just not getting how "purer" stuff is any better.)

yeah well of course, no argument here, it doesn't actually 'sound like' JD etc, it just borrows tropes/poses/mojo - I mean, the bands we cite as points of influence became touchstones because they themselves were either original or drawing on then-uncommon touchstones (Hawkwind for JD, uhhh who for Swans? always hard to say, I think Suicide & a lotta downtown tough-guy art-punk but I have to give Gira & co. much credit for sounding, as of Cop, like pretty much nobody else). The examples you cite (except Kate Bush, to whom I will never give even momentary props) are all boundary-breaking nobody's-making-music-like-this-so-we'll-do-it-ourselves bands. But to answer:

So wait, John, are you saying the JD-inspired quasi-metal bands have this philosophy, or the black metal purists you prefer do?

quasi-metal art bands. black metal purist bands like Blasphemophager or Morbosidad or Deiphago will tell you straight up that if they sound like Sarcofago, that's just fine. Which I like. I mean: the best bands are gonna be the ones that push the envelope. For sure. But the stuff that's attracting all the indie kids (i.e. people who look like me only thinner, LOL) isn't new or original or very interesting to me - fuck man, Godflesh's Hymns gave me a lifetime supply of what half these bands are pushing, and if it hadn't, the first Jesu album took care of the balance. So, even though the best bands are gonna be the innovators, in the absence of something as way-out-there new-thing-in-the-world as Celtic Frost's eighties stuff or Coroner or Transilvanian Hunger (which became a template), I'd rather hear people working within old established confines than "what if I combined metal with...My Bloody Valentine and all the bands I really like?" for the 1,000,000th time. I should say though that between that stuff & by-the-numbers black metal it's a tossup and you can throw them all to the wolves for all I care at this point, I think the scene is stagnant almost everywhere & the worst offenders are the ones who think they're doing something new.

Short version I don't think people who like Loveless should be allowed to make metal, and I say this as a guy who likes Loveless just fine.

Yeah, I agree with what Glenn said, I'm constantly looking for bands that push the proverbial envelope. That's just me, I especially love it these days when black metal is used as the jumping-off point for something even bolder. I find it just goes so well, the JD/Cure/MBV/Swans influence with the metal genre it's rooted in.

That said, there's a lot of truth to what John says ("an acceptance that restriction is actually liberation"). Goes both ways.

examples you cite (except Kate Bush, to whom I will never give even momentary props

I like her best-of CD okay, myself. (Which means a few more songs that I like than by Cocteau Twins or MBV -- who yeah, are another obvious inspiration on this kinda stuff, whether I care about them or not.)

I wouldn't be surprised if Voivod know who were MX-80 Sound were, btw (may have even read something to that effect once.) (And hell, I wish more metal bands sounded "like Voivod" now. Though who I do hear random tracks now and then that do okay at it.)

Eluveitie just pulled out of Paganfest...I like all the other bands a ton, but Eluveitie is just so durn good live.

as far as this purity debate goes, i'll say what i always say: it depends.

katatonia are my favorite modern rock group, and i know for a fact that i benefited from their cure, red house painters, and shoegaze fandom (they can have jeff buckley).

some people are so good that they can pull anything off. some people just look clumsy. or a day late and a dollar short.

i loved that last album by Empire Auriga. they combined all kinds of things with their metal (fuzzy guitars, test department martial maneuvers, general industrial clanking) and really made it work for me.

http://www.myspace.com/empireauriga

and it goes without saying that my fave israeli band grave in the sky combine all kinds of non-metal industrial stuff to their mix, but they rule cuz they do it SO FUCKING GOOD:

www.myspace.com/graveinthesky

love how specific they are too (!!):

Influences Darkthrone, OM, Black Sabbath, Khanate, Godflesh, Sunn O))), Burzum, Jesus Lizard,Swans, Immortal, Neurosis, Ulver, Electric Wizard, Grief, Choronzon, Axis of Perdition, Laughing Hyneas, Discharge, Cromagnon, Big Black, Wolf Eyes, Sightings, Carcass, OLD, Bastard Noise, Maurizio Bianchi, Lustmord, Earth, Thorns, Treponem Pal.
Sounds Like GGFH, Xasthur, Double Leopards, Mouthus, Gravitar, HALO, Skin Chamber, Bunkur, Barbara, Entombed, The Lack, Head of David, Doom, Weedeater, Samus, White Mice, Ramleh, Monarch, Negative Reaction, Unearthly Trance, Burmese, Toaldliquor, Sourvein, Cable, Flux Information Sciences, Asva, Caspar Brotzmann Massaker, King Carcass, Harvey Milk, Conspiracy of Noise, Terminal Cheesecake, Teeth of the Lions Rule the Divine, Boris.

Actually, that reminds me, though I'm not sure if anybody here will know what I'm talking about: Does anything on Mastodon's reportedly progged out Crack The Skye actually sound like one of my favorite prog-metal bands ever, Crack the Sky??Because if so, I may actually have to listen to it...

these guys?

Crack the Sky [Lifesong, 1975]
After too many legends of Atlantis and concept albums about the last cowboy, I was impressed to come upon John Palumbo, who can end one of his existentialist fables "Being is my . . . life" and make it sound like an aperçu. But in the end the words ("Robots for Ronnie," "A Sea Epic") are brittle, while Palumbo's dense modal structures (and Rick Witkowski's guitar inventions) have real tensile strength. Mannered, sure--so's Big Star. Slick, sure--hmm. B-

Animal Notes [Lifesong, 1976]
"We Want Mine," a jarring little rocker about Third World deprivation, and "Animal Skins," which quotes George Harrison as it salvages every religious leader who's ever lived, convinced me for a while that the rest of this systematically disjoint music flowed and crackled appropriately. But for the most part the melodies of these art-pop set pieces don't live up to the harmonies; their premeditated shifts recall late Beatles when they work and middle Uriah Heep when they don't. I still prefer songs about Mounties to songs about centaurs. But I also prefer Mountie songs that keep galloping when the lyrical conceit gets boring, which it does. B

Ha, that's too obscure for me, sorry.

I did finally get to listen to Crack the Skye all the way through, and it's a strong album, though I do still prefer the last three. "The Last Baron" is cool...complex, but doesn't fly completely off the handle like the Mars Volta so often does. "The Czar" continues to blow me away.

i don't think i've ever heard them. but from what i gather from the top review, Bob doesn't like them 'cause they're slick?

xp

Eluveitie pulled out of Paganfest? I really only wanted to see them and Korpiklaani; maybe the few hours drive to and from Worcester isn't going to happen for me either. Bummer.

Huge x-post.

xp If you can call Blue Oyster Cult crossed with Steely Dan in small-town Maryland on a pre-punk-era indie label slick, I guess. When I interviewed Kix in the late '80s, they told me they were big Crack The Sky fans -- called them "fish music, because it's all over the place." George says they worked up a decent live following up and down the upper East Coast in the '70s; even got a bit of AOR play. Here's Jasper and Oliver in 1983's immortal International Encyclopedia Of Heavy Metal: "weird and wacky hard rock -- twisting, turning, and creating wonderful moods for Palumbo's stunning lyrics. At times they appear light and jazzy but then they crush you with stunning guitar work."

Uh, too tired and still processing the above conversation to contribute to that debate. I will say, though, that if Alestorm come through your town, do not miss them. It is one of the most entertaining shows that did not involve pyro that I've seen in a long time.

Alestorm/Tyr seems like a really good combination...I would have liked to have seen Tyr play for longer than 25 minutes.

Tyr went on really late, so we ended up leaving after Alestorm. Don't really think Tyr could have followed that band, anyway. It was like on Pagan Fest, when they were sandwiched between Eluveitie and Turisas. Not an ideal spot.

Love Tyr's bracing, chanted Norwegian/Icelandic/Faroese vocals, though. Added some real authenticity to the whole Viking thing of Paganfest, which offset Turisas's more cartoonish approach nicely.

Alestorm would be such a blast. When I did an email interview with them, they ended it with a hearty "Yarr!" How can anyone not like that?

My pagan-metal dream-bill: Eluvetitie, Tyr, Equilibrium, Metsatoll. And, via time-machine, Skyclad circa 1994.

i love crack the sky. the band. haven't heard the new mastodon album yet.

and i never tire of tyr. maybe now that i'm moving to western mass i might actually make it for some of the metal mayhem in worcester.

" www.myspace.com/graveinthesky

love how specific they are too (!!):"

Any metal band that cites Flux Information Sciences as an influence definitely gets my attention. That Flux record was produced by Gira for Young God records and is sadly overlooked (and quite excellent). The live show was even more crushing. Too bad only about 10 other people in Portland were there to enjoy it...

After all the Amesoeurs talk up thread - and my excitement after the EP and the stunning Alcest album - I got a chance to hear the self-titled new album and my reaction is pretty meh. All over the place; purist black metal a couple of times, one very Joy Division influenced track, a bunch of other chanteuse-y tracks that are almost a French Lush and one that appears to be trying to blend Blondie and Curve. Unlike Ruines Humaines, it sounds like different bands on different tracks; all together a little slapdash. I'll try again - I really like Neige's prior works - and I hope it gels.

I think it's more cohesive than that, but yeah, you do get two or three indie-oriented tracks ("Video Girl"), and the one straight BM track sticks out a bit. Neige's guitar work and the girl's 4AD style vocals cinch it for me, though, I'm a total sucker for that stuff.

I think "La Reine Trayeuse" perfectly encapsulates what they're trying to achieve on this record...

Wow. That Static-X is just not good at all.

what a surprise!!

i have been awaiting this new amesoeurs for what seems like forever ( 2 years anyways) and what i have heard so far has not disappointed. i just hope it does well enough that they follow it up with at least one more. although i was getting used to the idea that all i was ever gonna get from them was the ep and the split single.

i just hope it does well enough that they follow it up with at least one more.

The little coded message in the title of track 6 might indicate otherwise...

in other words they already split up

SPOILER

ya i had read they broke up but so had the pixies and numerous other bands. you just never know :)

I had no idea...it was only today when I did a little searching that I learned of their almost comical girl-related squabble.

so apparently judas priest is going to be playing at our local free summer festival a few blocks from my house on july third.

good omens for summer

>Short version I don't think people who like Loveless should be allowed to make metal

Should be a fuckin amendment to every countries' constitution.

I saw Mötley Crüe at MSG last night.

^
Mick Mars is 65? I knew the guy was older when Crue started, but yikes.

Anyway, as for new tunes, I'm really impressed by the new album from Hull. Hull the band, not Hull, Quebec or Hull, England. Best signing by The End since Made Out of Babies...

http://www.myspace.com/hull

I don't think people who like Loveless should be allowed to make metal music.

If people who like Loveless shouldn't be allowed to make metal, then I'm sure people who like Drastus shouldn't be allowed to make plaintive acoustic indie music.

and guys with poodle haircuts shouldnt be allowed to make any form of music

guys if we keep this up there wont be anyone left

People who like music shouldn't make music.

I'm okay with that.

I adore Loveless, and what is this 'music' you speak of.

RIP music

it had a good run

heaven needed something to have annoying conversations about

We're done here. Lock board.

But wait--

Announcing: the rebirth of Music!

I have never had much use for Kylesa, but I really like what I've heard from their new album. I get really strong Fugazi vibes from several songs, and a few times there's almost a stoney Grails vibe to some of the lead guitar work.

...and the guy's voice doesn't annoy me like it used to.

i found their earlier stuff reasonably enjoyable, but that's a great endorsement.

gaK! blah, why'd ya have to go and mention fugazi in the same breath as a great band like kylesa.

people who like fugazi should be loveless.

i like mbv,kylesa and fugazi.