TS: Billy Corgan vs. Stephen Malkmus

much prefer malkmus's music as a whole, though he never had a '1979' moment, where the entire ethos is distilled into a single song of immense power ('gold soundz' probably closest but still so far)

don't care what either of them are like off-record

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eR9aRK2HdNc

the "Malkmus isn't trying" canard is so received-wisdom. what is he not trying to do, or trying not to do? which bands are unlazily doing the thing that he's doing lazily? there's a sprawl to what he does but the idea that this reflects "not trying" is very "I heard somebody say 'slacker' about this music once."

A fundamental part of Pavement's aesthetic, at least on the first couple of albums, seems to be that they were playing pop/rock music but were deliberately not trying to be tight or polished in their musical execution. (The Pumpkins mostly certainly were trying to sound like a polished, super-layered arena rock machine.) They came up with a distinctive sound by doing so but it doesn't seem like too much of a leap to say that they were 'not trying' in this way.

yeah, otm

I think it's SM who might be the insufferable drinking partner. It seems like a shallow reading to declare him a detached, terminally ironic superficial hipster type, but I've never seen any evidence to the contrary. I watched this interview with Ian Svenonious (think it's on youtube) that was just UGH.

Billy seems like kinda like a bro??

― rip van wanko

There's a thread somewhere about things Billy Corgan said to a member of some other band at a bar... Stone Temple Pilots or Soundgarden - don't remember - and he sounds like the worst drinking partner.

the core. the heart music. echo & the bunnymen.

things Billy Corgan said to Kim Thayil in Australia in 1994 poll

seems to be that they were playing pop/rock music but were deliberately not trying to be tight or polished in their musical execution

you think it's easy but you're wrong

Malkmus' process is refined, but the results are not on purpose

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jq4JGSxMzms

i hope you don't have to be branford marsalis to grasp how this could be seen as "not trying"

or rather, "sure could try harder"

selling luxury homes now. shameful.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1484956/pavement%20driveway%20for%20your%20luxury%20home.png

corgan would never

*devil eyes*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhvrvVGh2hY

I don't want to be anywhere near billy Corgan and alcohol.

would you close your door when you play that please xp

recent pro-corgi posts in this thread making me wish i had never been a sp fan

paws cover makes me believe though

I LIE JUST TO BE REAL
AND I'D DIE JUST TO FEEL
WHY DO THE SAME OLD THINGS KEEP ON HAPPENING?
BEYOND MY HOPES, THERE ARE NO FEELINGS THERE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fFVRYbtQ_A

"Stop Breathin" is Malkmus' masterpiece imo. incredible song

lyrics of "tales of scorched earth" make a real case for malkmus

"scorched earth" is an apt description for Corgan's vocals

I'd maybe go for "Wicked Wanda" as the finest Malkmus.

some real Brazilian nuts in Malkmus' lyrics

I never got into Pavement until after they broke up but I did see them live twice and was shocked that they weren't awful because everyone always said they were uncaring slackers who couldn't actually play anything. I loved Smashing Pumpkins when they were around but never saw them live which is kind of a major regret.

Nowadays I'll listen to any Pavement record or b-side or lost track but as far as I'm concerned there are only 2 Smashing Pumpkins records (three if you count Pieces Iscariot).

U Beefin My Grimes?

murder burnout hipsters! unite! come align for the big fight . . . to rock . . . for you! beware!

can't find the the video in which Corgan uses the first verse of Bullets for a mixed martial arts intro.
― Van Horn Street, Tuesday, October 14, 2014 6:02 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

It was pro wrestling:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryYcyt8FPlg

lmao

another signature Corgan song - distills a lot of his essence in three minutes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkgML3AJZ28

I fear that I am ordinary, just like everyone
To lie here and die among the sorrows
Adrift among the days
For everything I ever said
And everything I've ever done is gone and dead
As all things must surely have to end
And great loves will one day have to part
I know that I am meant for this world

My life has been extraordinary
Blessed and cursed and won
Time heals but I'm forever broken
By and by the way...
Have you ever heard the words
I'm singing in these songs?
It's for the girl I've loved all along
Can a taste of love be so wrong?
As all things must surely have to end
And great loves will one day have to part
I know that I am meant for this world

And in my mind as I was floating
Far above the clouds
Some children laughed I'd fall for certain
For thinking that I'd live
Forever

But I knew exactly where I was
And I knew the meaning of it all
And I knew the distance to the sun
And I knew the echo that is love
And I knew the secrets in your spires
And I knew the emptiness of youth
And I knew the solitude of hearts
And I knew the murmurs of the soul

And the world is drawn into your hands
And the world is etched upon your heart
And the world so hard to understand
Is the world your can't live without

And I knew the silence of the world

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-c-5LXYRj87U/UzERyao4xgI/AAAAAAAAA5w/g-hygRVTdq0/s1600/malk2.gif

xxxp oh yes!! thanks!!

Malkmus shrug at high school poetry class nonsense = otm

Muzzle remains one of the best songs he's ever written imho.

he's making fun of his nonsense in that song, while having this weight- the feeling is close to "well, everything's gonna be alright in the end, ashes to ashes, dust to dust"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tH2w6Oxx0kQ

he's making fun of his nonsense in that song

so he's shit at making jokes too then eh

You can't really scream to Pavement.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ev0rTCGQ8pY

lol there are a bunch of Pavement songs with screaming in them

Unfair, Conduit for Sale etc.

yeah but it's ironic falsetto screaming, not the core/heart scream

the bunnymen scream

What the hell are you talking about. Nothing more core/heart scream than I'M TRYIN' I'M TRYIN' I'M TRYIN

While my kids pull off that nasal "I-really-mean-it-so-I'm-gonna-repeat-the-line-like-NAAAAAAAAA" thing Corgan does much better.

I like Pavement a fair amount, but not so much those moments. His comical high screech.

Anyway, my point was more that there's something earnest and emotional in Smashing Pumpkins that I don't get from Pavement and this is where my sympathies these days tend to lie.

(Alternate post: Malkmus couldn't really scream to Pavement either.)

There's a song on his solo debut where he does a crazy high scream.

oh man that Lockdown promo is something else

my point was more that there's something earnest and emotional in Smashing Pumpkins that I don't get from Pavement

I'm not trying to dogpile on you all or be obtuse about this, but I feel like this argument is going toward "Greeting cards that say 'I love you, I miss you, I am alone' are more earnest than Raymond Carver stories which never even say those things."

greeting cards written by free association

haha pplains otm