as a non-rock fan i think thin lizzy is the greatest band in the world
― emo canon in twee major (BradNelson), Monday, 10 November 2014 19:33 (nine years ago) link
just kidding i'm probably a rock fan
― emo canon in twee major (BradNelson), Monday, 10 November 2014 19:34 (nine years ago) link
i also fucking love genesis but i don't think anything they've done codes precisely as "rock" to me
― emo canon in twee major (BradNelson), Monday, 10 November 2014 19:35 (nine years ago) link
There are of course ~tonnes~ of non-square rock bands I love: Sparks, Hole, Queen, Heart, Electrelane, Sleater-Kinney, etc. And prog too, Magma are my favourite band, if that's rock then I'm a rock fan.
― fgti, Monday, 10 November 2014 19:43 (nine years ago) link
xp: or "aggressive" for that matter.
― how's life, Monday, 10 November 2014 19:49 (nine years ago) link
uhhhhhhh keep it dark
― emo canon in twee major (BradNelson), Monday, 10 November 2014 19:54 (nine years ago) link
I teach a lot of kids who barely have any reference points beyond hip-hop, but DSOTM comes up as the great exception.
― Fine Toothcomb (sonofstan), Monday, 10 November 2014 20:04 (nine years ago) link
I am allergic to any sort of rock-music-made-by-men extending from aggressively destructive (GnR, Genesis, Mott The Hoople, Styx, Nazareth, Zeppelin, Floyd, Faith No More, RHCP) to the passively complicit (The Beatles, Meat Loaf, Neil Young, most Sonic Youth).
somewhat baffled by what 'aggressively destructive' and 'passively complicit' mean in this context.
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Monday, 10 November 2014 20:06 (nine years ago) link
"somewhat":P
― EveningStar (Sund4r), Monday, 10 November 2014 20:13 (nine years ago) link
(Thought you liked Yes and Rush, fgti?)
Oh, you made a sort-of-exception for prog.
Oh c'mon, you know, music that sounds like oppression and money making and raping women and spitting on poor people and kicking immigrants and running gays over in your car
― fgti, Monday, 10 November 2014 20:15 (nine years ago) link
that's basically an anal cunt tracklist! clink
― imago, Monday, 10 November 2014 20:18 (nine years ago) link
*clink!*
I mean, you asked *shrug* The first time I heard INXS and Def Leppard at age 9 I was like "omg this is terrible" and now I have the words to explain whyAn entire genre of music based on playground bullying
― fgti, Monday, 10 November 2014 20:20 (nine years ago) link
Whenever I see a car full of jocks cranking Mott the Hoople tunes, I run
― you walk on the street, grab the rock (President Keyes), Monday, 10 November 2014 20:21 (nine years ago) link
trying to think of any aggressively masculine music i carry over residually from younger days
am listening to marina and the diamonds rn so it's hard, might need to pause this
― imago, Monday, 10 November 2014 20:25 (nine years ago) link
xp I'm not talking about the context in which the music appears, I'm talking about actively going out and purchasing rock records and finding that they sound like excess and shittiness
I love The Cramps and Gun Club and hate Nick Cave
Was cool on Modern Lovers until I heard "She'd eat garbage, eat shit, get stoned. I stay alone, eat health food at home" now they're one of my favourites, that's probably a good indication of where my head is at?
Aggression isn't really what it's about, either, I love aggressive masculine music, it's more macho posturing
― fgti, Monday, 10 November 2014 20:26 (nine years ago) link
you put faith no more in that list; i'd argue that there's a lot more to mike patton's music, on the whole - it's slier & more self-deconstructive than that - witness his famously disgusted reaction on hearing wolfmother (a true cock-rock regressive pile of shit) at a festival
and yet i can see exactly why you've listed them as well; they're definitely playing with the idea of forceful, posturing masculinity. it's a fine line.
― imago, Monday, 10 November 2014 20:27 (nine years ago) link
back in college in knew a lot of people who listened mostly to Norteno or Bachata music, and sometimes Hip Hop. But they all also loved Nirvana.
― you walk on the street, grab the rock (President Keyes), Monday, 10 November 2014 20:30 (nine years ago) link
If you're applying a 'cock rock' formula to a sort of underground/alternative context there's going to be a whole load of arguments one way or another.
― Master of Treacle, Monday, 10 November 2014 20:33 (nine years ago) link
I'm not talking about the context in which the music appears, I'm talking about actively going out and purchasing rock records and finding that they sound like excess and shittiness
Only, you ARE talking about the context in which the music appears.
I have the exact same reaction you described to most metal pre-1990 with a few exceptions (mainly Iron Maiden and Anthrax) as well as most country because the vast majority of the people I grew up with who actively listened to it were the type of people who parsed the lines "Are there any queers in the theatre tonight?/Get them up against the wall" as 100% earnest endorsement of fascist oppression and used this as a mantra for how they lived their lives. In this context, INXS was an escape to something a lot more progressive than what everyone else around me was listening to, plus it was a lot more fun to dance to.
― the farakhan of gg (DJP), Monday, 10 November 2014 20:36 (nine years ago) link
excess and shittiness
Immediately heard this to the tune of "Incense and Peppermints. "
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Monday, 10 November 2014 20:38 (nine years ago) link
Yeah I'm actually far less interested in typing about why I don't like rock music and volunteering myself as somebody who doesn't, but rides hard for those listed exceptions as well as non-square rock like Queen, Heart, Hole, Bowie, etc
― fgti, Monday, 10 November 2014 20:39 (nine years ago) link
I'm inclined to think there may be as much correlation with bullying (or lack thereof) in your exceptions as there is in your offenders.
― timellison, Monday, 10 November 2014 20:56 (nine years ago) link
Same with posturing, macho or otherwise.
― timellison, Monday, 10 November 2014 20:58 (nine years ago) link
Also a little resentful of the "square" vs. "non-square" characterizations, honestly.
― timellison, Monday, 10 November 2014 21:08 (nine years ago) link
My favorite Dance Music is Square
― you walk on the street, grab the rock (President Keyes), Monday, 10 November 2014 21:24 (nine years ago) link
"it's like those hip musicians with their complicated shoes!' -- george costanza
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Monday, 10 November 2014 21:31 (nine years ago) link
much more interesting to hear what music sounds like macho posturing to people than to hear lux aeterna rush-in of "that's not objective" from rock's wounded warriors
― mattresslessness, Monday, 10 November 2014 21:34 (nine years ago) link
Listening to the guitars on INXS' "Original Sin" at 15 probably turned me gay.
― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 10 November 2014 21:37 (nine years ago) link
no one actually said "that's not objective" and that wasn't the point of my comment, which was the assertion that you can't judge anything outside of your perceived context with a counter-example of how my context gave me a completely different perception of how fgti described INXS
I wanted to ask how many exceptions to your rule can you list and have your rule still be valid but given fgti's response to me, it felt unnecessarily antagonistic
― the farakhan of gg (DJP), Monday, 10 November 2014 21:45 (nine years ago) link
An entire genre of music based on playground bullying
trying to think of what kind of music the people who bullied me in school were listening to and the #1 answer my brain can come up with is Lyte Funky Ones
― example (crüt), Monday, 10 November 2014 21:49 (nine years ago) link
My "entire genre of music based on playground bullying" is probably like, Tone Loc, MC Hammer, Vanilla Ice, Milli Vanilli, Paula Abdul.
Lol xp
― how's life, Monday, 10 November 2014 21:52 (nine years ago) link
I missed the experience of someone bullying me by blasting "Animal" or "Hysteria" or "Armageddon It."
― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 10 November 2014 21:53 (nine years ago) link
#notallrock
― Fairly peng (wins), Monday, 10 November 2014 21:55 (nine years ago) link
Ha, that's the closest thing I can think of too, how's life. Maybe bhangra/Bollywood in high school.
xpost
― EveningStar (Sund4r), Monday, 10 November 2014 22:00 (nine years ago) link
@DJP you can be antagonistic! I mean, don't worry abt coming off as antagonistic. INXS are I guess a weird one for me, I'm what, 3-5 years younger than Alfo and DJP? So I didn't really fully "get" INXS as an alternative to anything except what I was listening to at home (classical music and kid-rap).
I deliberately avoided citing just obv cock-rock examples and tried to go broad.
I could make a list of rock bands I like and explain why! Stooges and Sonics that stuff just sounds aggro and new and fun and fantastic. Never liked "Raw Power" tho. Most of the bands I listed kind of come from that realm of rock. I like Big Star because it sounds wimpy. I like Black Sabbath because Ozzy sounds genuinely scared of Satan and that is very powerful and beautiful.
― fgti, Monday, 10 November 2014 22:11 (nine years ago) link
Also @ Tim I've been using "square" for years when talking about music with fellow musicians to avoid running into "not all cswm" territory. It works because it doesn't necessarily include cool cswms (not does it let uncool not-cswms off the hook).
"Bullying" I mentioned in the larger sense, the sound of accruing capital, life of excess, patriarchal oppression, and I don't like stoner rock or hippie rock either
― fgti, Monday, 10 November 2014 22:25 (nine years ago) link
don't know why you're bringing the Cowtown Society of Western Music into this
― you walk on the street, grab the rock (President Keyes), Monday, 10 November 2014 22:47 (nine years ago) link
music that sounds like oppression and money making and raping women and spitting on poor people and kicking immigrants and running gays over in your car
this deserves it's own thre - oh wait GnR already have a thread
― Οὖτις, Monday, 10 November 2014 22:56 (nine years ago) link
I don't know what a cswm is.
― timellison, Monday, 10 November 2014 23:43 (nine years ago) link
certified social work manager
― mattresslessness, Monday, 10 November 2014 23:45 (nine years ago) link
I think it's Crosby, Stills, White & Man
― you walk on the street, grab the rock (President Keyes), Tuesday, 11 November 2014 01:41 (nine years ago) link
Oh c'mon, you know, music that sounds like oppression and money making and raping women and spitting on poor people and kicking immigrants and running gays over in your car― fgti, Monday, November 10, 2014 8:15 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― fgti, Monday, November 10, 2014 8:15 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Walking across the sitting room / I run gays over in my car...
― joni mitchell jarre (dog latin), Tuesday, 11 November 2014 10:46 (nine years ago) link
Obv I'm not indicting rock fans or rock musicians of anything. There's a sound and it sounds like something terrible. Same as like classical choral music sounds "holy" and rap sounds like "a party" and twee-rock sounds like "impotence" and math-rock sounds like "body odour"
― flamboyant goon tie included, Tuesday, 11 November 2014 12:37 (nine years ago) link
LOL @ body odour.
I do see what you're getting at (i think?), but you've placed your markers rather wide here if you're going to include Genesis and, like, FNM under the same 'bigoted (just typoed 'bigtoed'!), aggressive' music and then everything from Meatloaf to Sonic Youth into another category, which I don't really understand. And yeah like you say, it's the equivalent of a non-rap fan boiling that genre down to 'It's all just bragging about money and bitches etc...'
I'm not a fan of all these bands, especially not RHCP (because, get this, I was once bullied by a kid who listened to them a lot) - but didn't this band have songs that were actively about anti-homophobia? Same as FNM. Both bands had gay members.
The only band mentioned who had outwardly aggressive views expressed in their lyrics were Guns'n'Roses AFAIK. Maybe it depends on where you're from but going back 20 years, most rock fans at my school were bookish/nerd types whereas generally the more aggressive kids listened to dance and chart music.
― joni mitchell jarre (dog latin), Tuesday, 11 November 2014 13:03 (nine years ago) link
I keep saying "context has nothing to do with it" and I mean it. Gay members? don't care. My ears politicize everything that I hear, the way one person mics and mixes a kick drum sounds like "bwow" and suggests comedy and fun and being social and going to house shows, the way another person mics and mixes a kick drum sounds like "thuck" and suggests radio rock and money-making working out at the gym over a guitar solo.
"Rap music is all bragging about money and bitches" is something my mom would say. "The sound of rock music makes me feel like I want to see civilization crumble and fail" is what I'm saying.
― fgti, Tuesday, 11 November 2014 14:31 (nine years ago) link
So it's the actual 'sound' you don't like and/or has certain negative connotations, as opposed to the overall message/look/aesthetic. Guess that makes sense. One of the key anti-popist arguments that I can get behind is the homogenised nature of pop radio production and how similar a lot of it sounds thanks to this.That said, I'm not sure where money-making comes into it. Do people really listen to rock music at the gym? Is rock music designed, primarily, over other styles to make money? Or even to oppress people? Or to appeal to aggressive masculine tropes? Many would argue they find the rock sound liberating in exactly the opposite way.
― joni mitchell jarre (dog latin), Tuesday, 11 November 2014 14:50 (nine years ago) link
fgti: I don't understand the "context has nothing to do with this" argument because I don't understand how you can assign emotional value to a sound without placing it into some kind of context. I think I would express your position as "intent has nothing to do with it"?
― the farakhan of gg (DJP), Tuesday, 11 November 2014 15:23 (nine years ago) link
Yeah! there we go. That's what I mean.
― fgti, Tuesday, 11 November 2014 15:33 (nine years ago) link