Eminem is now older than Lennon ever was Alfred
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 13 November 2014 17:50 (nine years ago) link
Don't assume Lennon would have grown up either tbf
― Fairly peng (wins), Thursday, 13 November 2014 17:51 (nine years ago) link
what i'm genuinely surprised by is that no young turk has made a big deal about going after em to get oneven more surprised em hasn't tried to set something like this up so that he can manage a years worth of beef and then make up for the Best of Both Generations Tour 2018
― So beautiful cow (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 13 November 2014 17:53 (nine years ago) link
i think it's important to remember sometimes that it's not that more people are buying eminem so much as a large portion of his audience is still buying eminem. Relapse sold a fifth internationally what Marshall Mathers LP did. Recovery was a genuine comeback but MM2 isn't hitting as hard, even if its relative standing is impressive compared to everyone else's. But this guy makes critically respected juggalo shit, of course wal-mart still sells copies.
― da croupier, Thursday, 13 November 2014 17:53 (nine years ago) link
this is a weird detour to take (I'm sure lex loves it lol) but by the time he died Lennon had clearly made a concerted effort to move beyond the mysogyny/violence/assholishness of his past. Em charts no similar growth afaik
xp
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 13 November 2014 17:53 (nine years ago) link
xxxp prob would have already happened if more words rhymed with Kendrick
― So beautiful cow (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 13 November 2014 17:55 (nine years ago) link
Lennon's music also got worse/borderline unbearable in its mawkishness but what do you want, good music or a decent human being (I err on the side of the latter personally; Em is neither)
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 13 November 2014 17:55 (nine years ago) link
Lol yeah I'll shut up I'm not really interested in comparing lennons projected dickishness against em's actual dickishness, was just being a dick
― Fairly peng (wins), Thursday, 13 November 2014 18:10 (nine years ago) link
projected? dude was a wife beater
― I Love Makonnen: New Answers (The Reverend), Thursday, 13 November 2014 19:57 (nine years ago) link
When was this?
― Threat Assessment Division (I M Losted), Thursday, 13 November 2014 20:01 (nine years ago) link
LENNON: It is a diary form of writing. All that "I used to be cruel to my woman, I beat her and kept her apart from the things that she loved" was me. I used to be cruel to my woman, and physically -- any woman. I was a hitter. I couldn't express myself and I hit. I fought men and I hit women. That is why I am always on about peace, you see. It is the most violent people who go for love and peace. Everything's the opposite. But I sincerely believe in love and peace. I am not violent man who has learned not to be violent and regrets his violence. I will have to be a lot older before I can face in public how I treated women as a youngster.
― I Love Makonnen: New Answers (The Reverend), Thursday, 13 November 2014 20:04 (nine years ago) link
― I Love Makonnen: New Answers (The Reverend), Thursday, November 13, 2014 7:57 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
I'm with you mate, the "projected" part is his dickishness post-1980
― Fairly peng (wins), Thursday, 13 November 2014 20:05 (nine years ago) link
This thread is so empowering to women!
― Threat Assessment Division (I M Losted), Thursday, 13 November 2014 20:06 (nine years ago) link
(which I have little doubt in tbh but I said I wouldn't go there xp)
― Fairly peng (wins), Thursday, 13 November 2014 20:07 (nine years ago) link
jay-z's a bit more of a frank sinatra in his endurance strategy, kanye says he's a bruce springsteen but if the next album isn't born in the usa he might just be a kurt cobain that didn't die young
― da croupier, Thursday, November 13, 2014 12:45 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
isn't dying young an inextricable part of being a kurt cobain? or is a kurt cobain that didn't die young just a billy corgan?
― ET sippin the wig (spazzmatazz), Thursday, 13 November 2014 20:17 (nine years ago) link
if dying young won't change your mind, then baby baby right on time
― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 13 November 2014 20:19 (nine years ago) link
Lennon who?
― Raccoon Tanuki, Thursday, 13 November 2014 20:30 (nine years ago) link
gallagher
― Fairly peng (wins), Thursday, 13 November 2014 20:31 (nine years ago) link
Kurt Cobain was a wife-beater, too, and killed himself leaving a very young child behind. There is no bigger asshole. Oh well, back to electronic music, it won't disappoint me the way rock and roll does....
― Threat Assessment Division (I M Losted), Thursday, 13 November 2014 20:36 (nine years ago) link
xp wins, I don't know why you assumed I was excusing Eminem there. It was meant as a criticism.
― Re-Make/Re-Model, Thursday, 13 November 2014 20:36 (nine years ago) link
kurt cobain was not a wife beater tho
― ET sippin the wig (spazzmatazz), Thursday, 13 November 2014 20:37 (nine years ago) link
what i'm genuinely surprised by is that no young turk has made a big deal about going after em to get on
i think that kind of gets to the "relevance" part; he sells a ton of albums, still (and has more "likes" on Facebook than almost anyone else IIRC). but I'm not sure he seems relevant enough that a young rapper would get much mileage from dissing him. he's kind of off in his own semi-detached universe. eminem has always had fans who wouldn't otherwise listen to hip hop (for racial and other reasons), and I think now he has a huge international (I can't stress that enough) following that doesn't largely overlap with what we would likely consider a "hip hop audience."
and yeah even his earlier albums, so celebrated in their time, are hard to listen to now. though i still get "forgot about dre" stuck in my head every few weeks.
― I dunno. (amateurist), Thursday, 13 November 2014 20:42 (nine years ago) link
slim shady lp still holds up imo
― da croupier, Thursday, 13 November 2014 20:43 (nine years ago) link
I saw him at Wembley Stadium and he was all about technique. Very little charisma and not much to say, just sheer skill. It was more like watching an athlete than a musician. The claims made for him circa MMLP seem ridiculous now. I hear the influence of his flow and his voice-shifting in lots of young MCs but the idea of him as a complex character or a cultural icon belongs to another era.
― Re-Make/Re-Model, Thursday, 13 November 2014 20:47 (nine years ago) link
Kurt Cobain was a wife-beater, too
have never heard this accusation before tbh
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 13 November 2014 20:59 (nine years ago) link
― da croupier, Thursday, November 13, 2014 2:43 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
agreed
― deej loaf (D-40), Thursday, 13 November 2014 22:40 (nine years ago) link
xp I haven't either. I mean, you can't know everything, but that seems like something that would go completely against everything I've ever heard about Kurt's relationships with/to women.
― Johnny Fever, Thursday, 13 November 2014 22:42 (nine years ago) link
a big part of why threatening to punch lana del rey is so offensive & creepy is bc of lack of truth-value to his rapping any more imo ... it feels cynical, eminem-doing-eminem self parody & only the most gamergate of rap critics could defend it at this point ... that assumption that bc the PMRC was wrong in the late 80s that pop stars will always be right in visiting violence ... I would rather defend "Kim" because while that song is about violence towards women you actually feel the effect of it, like it's a super-uncomfortable song that alienates the listener rather than making the listener complicit in his brand of misogyny ... this stuff though, much like his last album's lyrics about driving over his ex and then paving over it, it feels like schtick
― deej loaf (D-40), Thursday, 13 November 2014 22:44 (nine years ago) link
so cynical for 'giving the audience what it wants' ... more scary violence! but not finding it w/in himself, or something
― deej loaf (D-40), Thursday, 13 November 2014 22:46 (nine years ago) link
xps to RM/RM, fair enough but I still think that ascribing eminem's toxicity arises from mere thoughtlessness is a ridiculous proposition, I mean it is just clearly not the case
― Fairly peng (wins), Thursday, 13 November 2014 22:49 (nine years ago) link
it's pretty central to his character, it is who he is
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 13 November 2014 22:54 (nine years ago) link
that was a whole lot of the MMLP too. but it did have to do with a moment in time -- like he was doing this stuff on his earlier freestyles and it was just from that schoolyard who can be grosser/meaner/more violent/more over the top side, and then SSLP came out right in the middle of the TRL era and that voice, always in it just for shock & effect, found a whole new audience, and generated a big outrage cycle. Then MMLP came in and trolled it really effectively. But yeah, like a class clown or w/e he needs to be paid attention to to thrive. If he's just doing the same thing and nobody is doubling down on outrage, then the same gimmicks don't really fly again.
ok, so forgive the analogy here, but duchamp did lots of things in his career. he could only sign urinals for so long before it stopped being interesting.
― a total laugh package (s.clover), Thursday, 13 November 2014 22:55 (nine years ago) link
oops mangled sentence xxp, swap out ascribing for claiming or sth
― Fairly peng (wins), Thursday, 13 November 2014 22:55 (nine years ago) link
Funny that the most enduring song of his is probably the one with zero violence or pop culture, "Lose Yourself."
― the man with the black wigs (Eazy), Thursday, 13 November 2014 23:42 (nine years ago) link
while i might give you violence but re: pop culture he breaks down in the last verse and notes the lack of mekhi phifer in his past
― da croupier, Thursday, 13 November 2014 23:47 (nine years ago) link
deej (and lots of other people) otm
― TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Thursday, 13 November 2014 23:50 (nine years ago) link
yeah there's no way that the meaning of the lyrics isn't central to eminem and his persona; he's not exactly the cocteau twins of hip hop.
― I dunno. (amateurist), Friday, 14 November 2014 03:48 (nine years ago) link
p.s. the cocteau twins of hip hop is chief keef
― I dunno. (amateurist), Friday, 14 November 2014 03:49 (nine years ago) link
Future1
― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 14 November 2014 03:57 (nine years ago) link
!
xp to wins. OK fair point.
― Re-Make/Re-Model, Friday, 14 November 2014 11:11 (nine years ago) link
Nicely played by Iggy Azalea
http://www.vibe.com/article/eminem-jokes-about-raping-iggy-azalea?utm_source=sc-tw&utm_medium=ref&utm_campaign=Eminem
― Re-Make/Re-Model, Friday, 21 November 2014 10:28 (nine years ago) link
http://www.mensjournal.com/magazine/eminem-the-home-body-20150731
― let's not get too excited w/ the ouches (forksclovetofu), Monday, 3 August 2015 16:22 (eight years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1OmWlmmXHI
― POLIZISTEN VERSINKEN IM SCHLAMM (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 17 January 2023 02:03 (one year ago) link