Moment when it became like cool to like commercial pop music?

This thread is a cautionary tale.

― Tay-Tay Brooklynpants (Murgatroid), Thursday, 20 November 2014 22:25 (nine years ago) link

no thats no way for him has he no manners nor no refinement nor no nothing in his nature slapping
us behind like that on my bottom because I didnt call him Hugh the ignoramus that doesnt know
poetry from a cabbage thats what you get for not keeping them in their proper place pulling off his
shoes and trousers there on the chair before me so barefaced without even asking permission and
standing out that vulgar way in the half of a shirt they wear to be admired like a priest or a butcher
or those old hypocrites in the time of Julius Caesar of course hes right enough in his way to pass the
time as a joke sure you might as well be in bed with what with a lion God Im sure hed have
something better to say for himself an old Lion would O well I suppose its because they were so
plump and tempting in my short petticoat he couldnt resist they excite myself sometimes its well for
men all the amount of pleasure they get off a womans body were so round and white for them
always I wished I was one myself for a change just to try with that thing they have swelling up on
you so hard and at the same time so soft when you touch it my uncle John has a thing long I heard
those cornerboys saying passing the comer of Marrowbone lane my aunt Mary has a thing hairy
because it was dark and they knew a girl was passing it didnt make me blush why should it either its
only nature and he puts his thing long into my aunt Marys hairy etcetera and turns out to be you put
the handle in a sweepingbrush men again all over they can pick and choose what they please a
married woman or a fast widow or a girl for their different tastes like those houses round behind
Irish street no but were to be always chained up theyre not going to be chaining me up no damn fear
once I start I tell you for their stupid husbands jealousy why cant we all remain friends over it
instead of quarrelling her husband found it out what they did together well naturally and if he did
can he undo it hes coronado anyway whatever he does and then he going to the other mad extreme
about the wife in Fair Tyrants of course the man never even casts a 2nd thought on the husband or
wife either its the woman he wants and he gets her what else were we given all those desires for Id
like to know I cant help it if Im young still can I its a wonder Im not an old shrivelled hag before
my time living with him so cold never embracing me except sometimes when hes asleep the wrong
end of me not knowing I suppose who he has any man thatd kiss a womans bottom Id throw my hat
at him after that hed kiss anything unnatural where we havent I atom of any kind of expression in us
all of us the same 2 lumps of lard before ever Id do that to a man pfooh the dirty brutes the mere
thought is enough I kiss the feet of you senorita theres some sense in that didnt he kiss our halldoor
yes he did what a madman nobody understands his cracked ideas but me still of course a woman
wants to be embraced 20 times a day almost to make her look young no matter by who so long as to
be in love or loved by somebody if the fellow you want isnt there sometimes by the Lord God I was
thinking would I go around by the quays there some dark evening where nobodyd know me and
pick up a sailor off the sea thatd be hot on for it and not care a pin whose I was only do it off up in a
gate somewhere or one of those wildlooking gipsies in Rathfarnham had their camp pitched near the
Bloomfield laundry to try and steal our things if they could I only sent mine there a few times for
the name model laundry sending me back over and over some old ones odd stockings that
blackguardlooking fellow with the fine eyes peeling a switch attack me in the dark and ride me up
against the wall without a word or a murderer anybody what they do themselves the fine gentlemen
in their silk hats that K C lives up somewhere this way coming out of Hardwicke lane the night he
gave us the fish supper on account of winning over the boxing match of course it was for me he
gave it I knew him by his gaiters and the walk and when I turned round a minute after just to see
there was a woman after coming out of it too some filthy prostitute then he goes home to his wife
after that only I suppose the half of those sailors are rotten again with disease O move over your big
carcass out of that for the love of Mike listen to him the winds that waft my sighs to thee so well he
may sleep and sigh the great Suggester Don Poldo de la Flora if he knew how he came out on the
cards this morning hed have something to sigh for a dark man in some perplexity between 2 7s too
in prison for Lord knows what he does that I dont know and Im to be slooching around down in the
kitchen to get his lordship his breakfast while hes rolled up like a mummy will I indeed did you
ever see me running Id just like to see myself at it show them attention and they treat you like dirt I
dont care what anybody says itd be much better for the world to be governed by the women in it
you wouldnt see women going and killing one another and slaughtering when do you ever see

― search datpiff, you'll find it (slothroprhymes), Thursday, 20 November 2014 22:26 (nine years ago) link

Exactly - although it wasn't framed wrong it was framed perfectly

― Evan, Thursday, 20 November 2014 22:27 (nine years ago) link

women rolling around drunk like they do or gambling every penny they have and losing it on horses
yes because a woman whatever she does she knows where to stop sure they wouldnt be in the world
at all only for us they dont know what it is to be a woman and a mother how could they where
would they all of them be if they hadnt all a mother to look after them what I never had thats why I
suppose hes running wild now out at night away from his books and studies and not living at home
on account of the usual rowy house I suppose well its a poor case that those that have a fine son like
that theyre not satisfied and I none was he not able to make one it wasnt my fault we came together
when I was watching the two dogs up in her behind in the middle of the naked street that
disheartened me altogether I suppose I oughtnt to have buried him in that little woolly jacket I
knitted crying as I was but give it to some poor child but I knew well Id never have another our 1st
death too it was we were never the same since O Im not going to think myself into the glooms about
that any more I wonder why he wouldnt stay the night I felt all the time it was somebody strange he
brought in instead of roving around the city meeting God knows who nightwalkers and pickpockets
his poor mother wouldnt like that if she was alive ruining himself for life perhaps still its a lovely
hour so silent I used to love coming home after dances the air of the night they have friends they
can talk to weve none either he wants what he wont get or its some woman ready to stick her knife
in you I hate that in women no wonder they treat us the way they do we are a dreadful lot of bitches
I suppose its all the troubles we have makes us so snappy Im not like that he could easy have slept
in there on the sofa in the other room I suppose he was as shy as a boy he being so young hardly 20
of me in the next room hed have heard me on the chamber arrah what harm Dedalus I wonder its
like those names in Gibraltar Delapaz Delagracia they had the devils queer names there father
Vilaplana of Santa Maria that gave me the rosary Rosales y OReilly in the Calle las Siete Revueltas
and Pisimbo and Mrs Opisso in Governor street O what a name Id go and drown myself in the first
river if I had a name like her O my and all the bits of streets Paradise ramp and Bedlam ramp and
Rodgers ramp and Crutchetts ramp and the devils gap steps well small blame to me if I am a
harumscarum I know I am a bit I declare to God I dont feel a day older than then I wonder could I
get my tongue round any of the Spanish como esta usted muy bien gracias y usted see I havent
forgotten it all I thought I had only for the grammar a noun is the name of any person place or thing
pity I never tried to read that novel cantankerous Mrs Rubio lent me by Valera with the questions in
it all upside down the two ways I always knew wed go away in the end I can tell him the Spanish
and he tell me the Italian then hell see Im not so ignorant what a pity he didnt stay Im sure the poor
fellow was dead tired and wanted a good sleep badly I could have brought him in his breakfast in
bed with a bit of toast so long as I didnt do it on the knife for bad luck or if the woman was going
her rounds with the watercress and something nice and tasty there are a few olives in the kitchen he
might like I never could bear the look of them in Abrines I could do the criada the room looks all
right since I changed it the other way you see something was telling me all the time Id have to
introduce myself not knowing me from Adam very funny wouldnt it Im his wife or pretend we were
in Spain with him half awake without a Gods notion where he is dos huevos estrellados senor Lord
the cracked things come into my head sometimes itd be great fun supposing he stayed with us why
not theres the room upstairs empty and Millys bed in the back room he could do his writing and
studies at the table in there for all the scribbling he does at it and if he wants to read in bed in the
morning like me as hes making the breakfast for I he can make it for 2 Im sure Im not going to take
in lodgers off the street for him if he takes a gesabo of a house like this Id love to have a long talk
with an intelligent welleducated person Id have to get a nice pair of red slippers like those Turks
with the fez used to sell or yellow and a nice semitransparent morning gown that I badly want or a
peachblossom dressing jacket like the one long ago in Walpoles only 8/6 or 18/6 111 just give him
one more chance 111 get up early in the morning Im sick of Cohens old bed in any case I might go
over to the markets to see all the vegetables and cabbages and tomatoes and carrots and all kinds of
splendid fruits all coming in lovely and fresh who knows whod be the 1st man Id meet theyre out
looking for it in the morning Mamy Dillon used to say they are and the night too that was her
massgoing Id love a big juicy pear now to melt in your mouth like when I used to be in the longing
way then 111 throw him up his eggs and tea in the moustachecup she gave him to make his mouth

bigger I suppose hed like my nice cream too I know what 111 do 111 go about rather gay not too much
singing a bit now and then mi fa pieta Masetto then 111 start dressing myself to go out presto non son
piu forte 111 put on my best shift and drawers let him have a good eyeful out of that to make his
micky stand for him 111 let him know if thats what he wanted that his wife is I s 1 o fucked yes and
damn well fucked too up to my neck nearly not by him 5 or 6 times handrunning theres the mark of
his spunk on the clean sheet I wouldnt bother to even iron it out that ought to satisfy him if you dont
believe me feel my belly unless I made him stand there and put him into me Ive a mind to tell him
every scrap and make him do it out in front of me serve him right its all his own fault if I am an
adulteress as the thing in the gallery said O much about it if thats all the harm ever we did in this
vale of tears God knows its not much doesnt everybody only they hide it I suppose thats what a
woman is supposed to be there for or He wouldnt have made us the way He did so attractive to men
then if he wants to kiss my bottom 111 drag open my drawers and bulge it right out in his face as
large as life he can stick his tongue 7 miles up my hole as hes there my brown part then 111 tell him I
want LI or perhaps 30/ — 111 tell him I want to buy underclothes then if he gives me that well he
wont be too bad I dont want to soak it all out of him like other women do I could often have written
out a fine cheque for myself and write his name on it for a couple of pounds a few times he forgot to
lock it up besides he wont spend it 111 let him do it off on me behind provided he doesnt smear all
my good drawers O I suppose that cant be helped 111 do the indifferent 1 or 2 questions 111 know by
the answers when hes like that he cant keep a thing back I know every turn in him 111 tighten my
bottom well and let out a few smutty words smellrump or lick my shit or the first mad thing comes
into my head then 111 suggest about yes O wait now sonny my turn is coming 111 be quite gay and
friendly over it O but I was forgetting this bloody pest of a thing pfooh you wouldnt know which to
laugh or cry were such a mixture of plum and apple no 111 have to wear the old things so much the
better itll be more pointed hell never know whether he did it or not there thats good enough for you
any old thing at all then 111 wipe him off me just like a business his omission then 111 go out 111 have
him eying up at the ceiling where is she gone now make him want me thats the only way a quarter
after what an unearthly hour I suppose theyre just getting up in China now combing out their
pigtails for the day well soon have the nuns ringing the angelus theyve nobody coming in to spoil
their sleep except an odd priest or two for his night office or the alarmclock next door at cockshout
clattering the brains out of itself let me see if I can doze off 1 2 3 4 5 what kind of flowers are those
they invented like the stars the wallpaper in Lombard street was much nicer the apron he gave me
was like that something only I only wore it twice better lower this lamp and try again so as I can get
up early 111 go to Lambes there beside Findlaters and get them to send us some flowers to put about
the place in case he brings him home tomorrow today I mean no no Fridays an unlucky day first I
want to do the place up someway the dust grows in it I think while Im asleep then we can have
music and cigarettes I can accompany him first I must clean the keys of the piano with milk whatll I
wear shall I wear a white rose or those fairy cakes in Liptons I love the smell of a rich big shop at 7
l/2d a lb or the other ones with the cherries in them and the pinky sugar 1 Id a couple of lbs of those
a nice plant for the middle of the table Id get that cheaper in wait wheres this I saw them not long
ago I love flowers Id love to have the whole place swimming in roses God of heaven theres nothing
like nature the wild mountains then the sea and the waves rushing then the beautiful country with
the fields of oats and wheat and all kinds of things and all the fine cattle going about that would do
your heart good to see rivers and lakes and flowers all sorts of shapes and smells and colours
springing up even out of the ditches primroses and violets nature it is as for them saying theres no
God I wouldnt give a snap of my two fingers for all their learning why dont they go and create
something I often asked him atheists or whatever they call themselves go and wash the cobbles off
themselves first then they go howling for the priest and they dying and why why because theyre
afraid of hell on account of their bad conscience ah yes I know them well who was the first person
in the universe before there was anybody that made it all who ah that they dont know neither do I so
there you are they might as well try to stop the sun from rising tomorrow the sun shines for you he
said the day we were lying among the rhododendrons on Howth head in the grey tweed suit and his
straw hat the day I got him to propose to me yes first I gave him the bit of seedcake out of my

mouth and it was leapyear like now yes 16 years ago my God after that long kiss I near lost my
breath yes he said I was a flower of the mountain yes so we are flowers all a womans body yes that
was one true thing he said in his life and the sun shines for you today yes that was why I liked him
because I saw he understood or felt what a woman is and I knew I could always get round him and I
gave him all the pleasure I could leading him on till he asked me to say yes and I wouldnt answer
first only looked out over the sea and the sky I was thinking of so many things he didnt know of
Mulvey and Mr Stanhope and Hester and father and old captain Groves and the sailors playing all
birds fly and I say stoop and washing up dishes they called it on the pier and the sentry in front of
the governors house with the thing round his white helmet poor devil half roasted and the Spanish
girls laughing in their shawls and their tall combs and the auctions in the morning the Greeks and
the jews and the Arabs and the devil knows who else from all the ends of Europe and Duke street
and the fowl market all clucking outside Larby Sharons and the poor donkeys slipping half asleep
and the vague fellows in the cloaks asleep in the shade on the steps and the big wheels of the carts
of the bulls and the old castle thousands of years old yes and those handsome Moors all in white
and turbans like kings asking you to sit down in their little bit of a shop and Ronda with the old
windows of the posadas 2 glancing eyes a lattice hid for her lover to kiss the iron and the wineshops
half open at night and the castanets and the night we missed the boat at Algeciras the watchman
going about serene with his lamp and O that awful deepdown torrent O and the sea the sea crimson
sometimes like fire and the glorious sunsets and the figtrees in the Alameda gardens yes and all the
queer little streets and the pink and blue and yellow houses and the rosegardens and the jessamine
and geraniums and cactuses and Gibraltar as a girl where I was a Flower of the mountain yes when I
put the rose in my hair like the Andalusian girls used or shall I wear a red yes and how he kissed me
under the Moorish wall and I thought well as well him as another and then I asked him with my
eyes to ask again yes and then he asked me would I yes to say yes my mountain flower and first I
put my arms around him yes and drew him down to me so he could feel my breasts all perfume yes
and his heart was going like mad and yes I said yes I will Yes.

― search datpiff, you'll find it (slothroprhymes), Thursday, 20 November 2014 22:27 (nine years ago) link

WE
ARE NEVER EVER EVER
RACCOON TANUKI

― linda cardellini (zachlyon), Thursday, 20 November 2014 22:28 (nine years ago) link

Exactly - although Racoon wasn't framed wrong Racoon was framed perfectly

― Evan, Thursday, 20 November 2014 22:29 (nine years ago) link

riverrun, past Eve and Adam's, from swerve of shore to bend
of bay, brings us by a commodius vicus of recirculation back to
Howth Castle and Environs.
Sir Tristram, violer d'amores, fr'over the short sea, had passen-
core rearrived from North Armorica on this side the scraggy
isthmus of Europe Minor to wielderfight his penisolate war: nor
had topsawyer's rocks by the stream Oconee exaggerated themselse
to Laurens County's gorgios while they went doublin their mumper
all the time: nor avoice from afire bellowsed mishe mishe to
tauftauf thuartpeatrick: not yet, though venissoon after, had a
kidscad buttended a bland old isaac: not yet, though all's fair in
vanessy, were sosie sesthers wroth with twone nathandjoe. Rot a
peck of pa's malt had Jhem or Shen brewed by arclight and rory
end to the regginbrow was to be seen ringsome on the aquaface.
The fall (bababadalgharaghtakamminarronnkonnbronntonner-
ronntuonnthunntrovarrhounawnskawntoohoohoordenenthur-
nuk!) of a once wallstrait oldparr is retaled early in bed and later
on life down through all christian minstrelsy. The great fall of the
offwall entailed at such short notice the pftjschute of Finnegan,
erse solid man, that the humptyhillhead of humself prumptly sends
an unquiring one well to the west in quest of his tumptytumtoes:
and their upturnpikepointandplace is at the knock out in the park
where oranges have been laid to rust upon the green since dev-
linsfirst loved livvy.

― search datpiff, you'll find it (slothroprhymes), Thursday, 20 November 2014 22:29 (nine years ago) link

What clashes here of wills gen wonts, oystrygods gaggin fishy-
gods! Brékkek Kékkek Kékkek Kékkek! Kóax Kóax Kóax! Ualu
Ualu Ualu! Quaouauh! Where the Baddelaries partisans are still
out to mathmaster Malachus Micgranes and the Verdons cata-
pelting the camibalistics out of the Whoyteboyce of Hoodie
Head. Assiegates and boomeringstroms. Sod's brood, be me fear!
Sanglorians, save! Arms apeal with larms, appalling. Killykill-
killy: a toll, a toll. What chance cuddleys, what cashels aired
and ventilated! What bidimetoloves sinduced by what tegotetab-
solvers! What true feeling for their's hayair with what strawng
voice of false jiccup! O here here how hoth sprowled met the
duskt the father of fornicationists but, (O my shining stars and
body!) how hath fanespanned most high heaven the skysign of
soft advertisement! But was iz? Iseut? Ere were sewers? The oaks
of ald now they lie in peat yet elms leap where askes lay. Phall if
you but will, rise you must: and none so soon either shall the
pharce for the nunce come to a setdown secular phoenish.
Bygmester Finnegan, of the Stuttering Hand, freemen's mau-
rer, lived in the broadest way immarginable in his rushlit toofar-
back for messuages before joshuan judges had given us numbers
or Helviticus committed deuteronomy (one yeastyday he sternely
struxk his tete in a tub for to watsch the future of his fates but ere
he swiftly stook it out again, by the might of moses, the very wat-
er was eviparated and all the guenneses had met their exodus so
that ought to show you what a pentschanjeuchy chap he was!)
and during mighty odd years this man of hod, cement and edi-
fices in Toper's Thorp piled buildung supra buildung pon the
banks for the livers by the Soangso. He addle liddle phifie Annie
ugged the little craythur. Wither hayre in honds tuck up your part
inher. Oftwhile balbulous, mithre ahead, with goodly trowel in
grasp and ivoroiled overalls which he habitacularly fondseed, like
Haroun Childeric Eggeberth he would caligulate by multiplicab-
les the alltitude and malltitude until he seesaw by neatlight of the
liquor wheretwin 'twas born, his roundhead staple of other days
to rise in undress maisonry upstanded (joygrantit!), a waalworth
of a skyerscape of most eyeful hoyth entowerly, erigenating from

― search datpiff, you'll find it (slothroprhymes), Thursday, 20 November 2014 22:31 (nine years ago) link

Sloth stop posting your diary entries here.

― Evan, Thursday, 20 November 2014 22:32 (nine years ago) link

as for Wu Tang, I'm not a rap expert

OK well I am, and especially when it comes to Wu Tang, so why are you talking about Wu Tang like you know more about them than me in that pretentious, condescending way you did? This is unbelievable bullshit on every level.

You heard about RZA's smart dealings with recording industry. It's common knowledge. Well done though. Saying any one else in the group took any of it seriously or expected it to happen, is ridiculous. You've shown yourself as clueless as the rest of these Taylor Swfit fans in here.

Not only did most of Wu Tang not take their success serious, for the entirety of the 90s they did about as much to jeopardize their success as possibily could. Including punching smarmy snidey bullshit music journalists of the type we see posting here, getting into shootouts, robbing chains, PCP, weird anti-commercial and not only anti commercial but straight hostile to any inclinations of commercial sounds. Yes RZA and his Brother and business sense but more than that a determination not a clear expectation from selling PYN out of truck boots.

This active hostility to anything commercial that Wu and others displayed, even on Forever, is mirrored in say Coabin's lifelong distaste for Nevermind, that was the feeling of the time not a "tired myth" as you ridiculously put it.

― Raccoon Tanuki, Thursday, 20 November 2014 22:35 (nine years ago) link

'one joke' and finnegans wake

― ∞, Thursday, 20 November 2014 22:36 (nine years ago) link

Look how pissed off this thread has got people though. The Taylor and 1D fans wasting their time spamming the thread says it all for me. I feel like Karl Marx in a Tea Party demo.

― Raccoon Tanuki, Thursday, 20 November 2014 22:40 (nine years ago) link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYhzjNAt73c

I only have the demo too. Asked Santa for the full version.

― Evan, Thursday, 20 November 2014 22:42 (nine years ago) link

http://hipknitism.com/classes/basic_ribbed_socks/graphics/finished_sock.jpg

― linda cardellini (zachlyon), Thursday, 20 November 2014 22:43 (nine years ago) link

lol brooooooooooooooooo that's not even close to what its about how do you not see that, this is why everything thinks you're a sock

― search datpiff, you'll find it (slothroprhymes), Thursday, 20 November 2014 22:43 (nine years ago) link

*everyone

― search datpiff, you'll find it (slothroprhymes), Thursday, 20 November 2014 22:43 (nine years ago) link

The question is framed wrong but there was a definite change in critics perception towards pop from the start of the 00's to the end.

Take per example Daft Punk's Discovery. I remember when it was first released in 2000 it was almost universally panned by most critics that where expecting a house album and got this stupid pop album instead, but by the mid 00's almost all of them reassessed their opinions of it and by the end of the 00's it was in almost every best albums of the decade list. Without this shift of attitudes towards pop music it would have been a struggle uphill.

In 2003 Pitchfork had Beyonce, Justin Timberlake and Kelis in their top 10 songs list and they list those songs without cynicism or excuses because they are great songs. The 90's were way more uptight, it was frowned upon to love all kinds of music, music for many people was more about cred and personality than music itself.

― Moka, Thursday, November 20, 2014 9:05 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Actually 'Discovery' got rave reviews from basically every corner that wasn't an indie rock corner.

I think you're elevating a very specific case of a shift-in-attitude (namely Ryan Schreiber's) into a universal truth. That story is less about a broader change in musical tastes and more about the growing pains of any magazine or website moving from a niche market (indie rock) to a broad market.

The best 90s equivalent for contemporary Pitchfork probably is 90s Spin, which covered pop music about as much and about as enthusiastically as Pitchfork does now.

I would say that there is one quite specific way in which critical hostility to pop has changed in the past 15 years, which is that no-one much complains of "manufactured" pop anymore - someone hating on Katy Perry or Taylor Swift or One Direction will still invoke all sorts of sub-Culture Industry arguments, but whereas the idea of these mindless soulless plastic robots used to be the centerpiece of any criticism, it's fallen to the back of the pack. I have a whole bunch of nascent theories about this but it probably merits a whole 'nother thread.

― Tim F, Thursday, 20 November 2014 22:51 (nine years ago) link

Best new poster

― Οὖτις, Thursday, 20 November 2014 22:51 (nine years ago) link

So on this "tired myth" as you put it that there was a rebellion to commercial music in the 90s, I find hilarious denialism. You're flat out denying there was any kind of hostility to commercialism in popular 90s scenes? How odd you would think that.

― Raccoon Tanuki, Thursday, 20 November 2014 22:58 (nine years ago) link

What scenes are you talking about

― marcos, Thursday, 20 November 2014 23:00 (nine years ago) link

denialism isn't just a riverism

― linda cardellini (zachlyon), Thursday, 20 November 2014 23:01 (nine years ago) link

I'm trying to find ways of distilling my message. How about

"manufactured pop in the 90s was aimed at teen girls and not taken seriously by grown or discerning music fans whereas today manufactured pop is aimed at broad range of listeners and not taken with similar cynicism"

― Raccoon Tanuki, Thursday, 20 November 2014 23:02 (nine years ago) link

keep distilling

― da croupier, Thursday, 20 November 2014 23:07 (nine years ago) link

xp and that message is kind of bullshit?

also by "grown and discerning music fans" maybe you should just say "schlubby white indie dudes?"

― marcos, Thursday, 20 November 2014 23:08 (nine years ago) link

i think we can still get this message down to something more to-the-point. like a hand motion.

― da croupier, Thursday, 20 November 2014 23:10 (nine years ago) link

http://fmdust.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/poptimism-graphic.jpg

― sleeve, Thursday, 20 November 2014 23:10 (nine years ago) link

xp and that message is kind of bullshit?
also by "grown and discerning music fans" maybe you should just say "schlubby white indie dudes?"
― marcos,

er no? I'm talking about the fans of every other genre, of which there were many in the 90s to choose from. And there were even more genres within genres. Music is getting homogenous.

― Raccoon Tanuki, Thursday, 20 November 2014 23:13 (nine years ago) link

schlubby people of all colors and genders

― Evan, Thursday, 20 November 2014 23:15 (nine years ago) link

"Contemporary music criticism is a minefield rife with nasty, ad hominem attacks, and the most popular target, in recent years, has been those professing inadequate fealty to pop.

Poptimism is a studied reaction to the musical past. It is, to paraphrase a summary offered by Kelefa Sanneh some years ago in The New York Times in an article on the perils of “rockism”: disco, not punk; pop, not rock; synthesizers, not guitars; the music video, not the live show. It is to privilege the deliriously artificial over the artificially genuine. "

The Pernicious Rise of Poptimism

― Raccoon Tanuki, Thursday, 20 November 2014 23:16 (nine years ago) link

we're kind of ignoring the anti-vaccination movement (the lack of cooties shots making people more susceptible to manufactured pop) and climate change (the drying up of the genres)

― da croupier, Thursday, 20 November 2014 23:16 (nine years ago) link

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/06/magazine/the-pernicious-rise-of-poptimism.html

― Raccoon Tanuki, Thursday, 20 November 2014 23:16 (nine years ago) link

"Poptimism wants to be in touch with the taste of average music fans, to speak to the rush that comes from hearing a great single on the radio, or YouTube, and to value it no differently from a song with more “serious” artistic intent. It’s a laudable goal, emerging in part from the identity politics of the 1990s "

:)

― Raccoon Tanuki, Thursday, 20 November 2014 23:17 (nine years ago) link

i thought we all agreed that the next time the word "poptimism" came up we'd all just lie down and take a nap

― linda cardellini (zachlyon), Thursday, 20 November 2014 23:19 (nine years ago) link

oh my god you did not just drop the saul austerlitz piece in here oh sweet lord

that dude doesn't exactly have positive feelings toward rap, Ka mention notwithstanding, so idk if you want him as the pushing-40 paleface backing you up

not that that'll stop you when you're on a roll

― search datpiff, you'll find it (slothroprhymes), Thursday, 20 November 2014 23:19 (nine years ago) link

this is a pretty lol xpost now, but:
dude, honestly, the reason people are responding to you with snide gifs is that this board has a long and easily searchable history of pushing back against the idea that "teen girls" are not "discerning music fans" (are teen boys discerning?).

― The question is why, the answer is internet (rob), Thursday, 20 November 2014 23:22 (nine years ago) link

This article is brilliant, and exactly what I've been distilling but in a poorer more convoluted and distracted way

"Rosen is describing poptimism as a reaction to what I think of as “Rolling Stone disease,” whereby Bob Dylan and Bruce Springsteen were treated as geniuses and the likes of Marvin Gaye and Madonna as mere pop singers. Obviously there should be no test of race or gender in musical immortality. But now the reaction has swamped the initial problem and created a wildly distorted version of the music world in 2014, as reflected in the way it’s covered.

Poptimism now not only demands devotion to pop idols; it has instigated an increasingly shrill shouting match with those who might not be equally enamored of pop music. Disliking Taylor Swift or Beyoncé is not just to proffer a musical opinion, but to reveal potential proof of bias."

Bolded text links into my reasons why the poptimism reaction has swamped the initial problem that is related to corporate control x internet advertising.

― Raccoon Tanuki, Thursday, 20 November 2014 23:23 (nine years ago) link

what work is the word "manufactured" doing in "manufactured pop"

what is the not-manufactured pop. or the manufactured not-pop?

what genres have gone away since the 90s? i suppose polka and latin jazz among others are no longer grammy categories. is this what you're referring to?

― a total laugh package (s.clover), Thursday, 20 November 2014 23:24 (nine years ago) link

"So why is music criticism more or less alone in this affectation? Unlike those other disciplines, it has had to wrestle with the fact that music is now effectively free. Music criticism’s former priority — telling consumers what to purchase — has been rendered null and void for most fans. In its stead, I believe, many critics have become cheerleaders for pop stars.

It is no accident that poptimism is an Internet-era permutation. Obsessive coverage of stars like Drake and Justin Bieber drives Web traffic in a way that more judicious, varied coverage of the likes of, say, the Tuareg guitar wizard Bombino generally cannot. Once, we learned about new music by listening to the radio, reading Spin or watching MTV. Today MTV is largely a reality-TV channel, and most people prefer their iPods or Spotify playlists or Pandora stations to fusty radio programming.

In this way, poptimism embraces the familiar as a means of keeping music criticism relevant."

thisthisthis

― Raccoon Tanuki, Thursday, 20 November 2014 23:31 (nine years ago) link

"Admit It"

Admit it!
Despite your pseudo-bohemian appearance
And vaguely leftist doctrine of beliefs
You know nothing about art or sex
That you couldn’t read in any trendy New York underground fashion magazine
Prototypical non-conformist
You are a vacuous soldier of the thrift store Gestapo
You adhere to a set of standards and tastes
That appear to be determined by an unseen panel of hipster judges (bullshit)
Giving a thumbs up or thumbs down to incoming and outgoing trends and styles of music and art
Go analog baby, you’re so post-modern
You’re diving face forward into a antiquated past
It’s disgusting, it's offensive, don’t stick your nose up at me

Yeah, what do you have to say for yourself?
Whoah, whoah, whoah, whoah
Yeah, what do you have to say for yourself?
Whoah, whoah, whoah, whoah

You spend your time sitting in circles with your friends
Pontificating to each other
Forever competing for that one moment of self-aggrandizing glory
In which you hog the intellectual spotlight
Holding dominion over the entire shallow pointless conversation
Oh, we’re not worthy
When you walk by a group of quote-unquote normal people
You chuckle to yourself patting yourself on the back as you scoff
It's the same superiority complex
Shared by the high school jocks who made your life a living hell
And makes you a slave to the competitive capitalist dogma
You spend every moment of your waking life bitching about

Yeah, what do you have to say for yourself?
Whoah, whoah, whoah, whoah
And I say yeah, what do you have to say for yourself?
Whoah, whoah, whoah, whoah

'Cause I’m proud of my life and the things that I have done
Proud of myself and the loner I’ve become
You’re free to whine, it will not get you far
I do just fine, my car and my guitar

Proud of my life and the things that I have done
Proud of myself and the loner I’ve become
You’re free to whine, it will not get you far
I do just fine, my car and my guitar, yeah

Well let me tell you this, I am shamelessly self-involved
I spend hours in front of the mirror, making my hair elegantly disheveled
I worry about how this album will sell
Because I believe it will determine the amount of sex I will have in the future
I self medicate with drugs and alcohol to treat my extreme social anxiety

You are a faker (admit it)
You are a fraud (admit it)
Yeah, you’re living a lie (hey) living a lie (hey) you’re life is living a lie
You don’t impress me (admit it)
You don’t intimidate me (admit it)
Why don’t you bow down, get on the ground, walk this fucking plank (yeah!)

Yeah, what do you have to say for yourself
Whoah, whoah, whoah, whoah
And I say yeah (what do you..)

Proud of my life and the things that I have done
Proud of myself and the loner I’ve become
You’re free to whine, it will not get you far
I do just fine, my car and my..
Guitar, guitar go!

I drift, drift, drift, drift, drift, yeah
I drift, drift, drift, drift, drift, yeah oh

And I am done with this
I wanna taste the breeze of every great city
My car and my guitar
My car and my guitar
So you'll come to be, made of these urges unfulfilled
Oh no, no, no, no, no
When I'm dead I'll rest
When I'm dead I'll rest, lay still
When I'm dead I'll rest, I'll rest
When I'm dead I'll rest, I'll rest
When I'm dead I'll rest, I'll rest
When I'm dead I'll rest, I'll rest