― anthony kyle monday (akmonday), Monday, 22 September 2003 16:29 (twenty years ago) link
That said, I think their career arc is pretty interesting -- starting weird and then getting conventional (by their standards, anyway) and then getting weird again, except that the weirdness on the other side is so much better than the early stuff.
I like the Sister-Daydream-Goo-Dirty quartet and then A Thousand Leaves best. Also liked Murray Street more than most I think.
― chris herrington (chris herrington), Monday, 22 September 2003 18:01 (twenty years ago) link
"DY" is incredible, though. the kim gordon tracks especially - "kissability" is just filthy. i think "washing machine" may be undervalued - the first song on side two (can't remember the name) is their best Pop track.
― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Monday, 22 September 2003 21:23 (twenty years ago) link
― Fabrice (Fabfunk), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 06:44 (twenty years ago) link
― Dave M. (rotten03), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 06:54 (twenty years ago) link
― george gosset (gegoss), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:43 (twenty years ago) link
― Fabrice (Fabfunk), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 06:25 (twenty years ago) link
People hating on Murray Street? Are you fucking kidding me?! Murray Street is an OUTSTANDING album that 99% of indie rock bands would have to consider themselves LUCKY to accomplish.
Wow; I don't know, Kilian. I mean I don't know how to respond to your disdain for Daydream nation. LIke, normally when I post around here I sort of try to acquit myself well and like mount intelligent defenses and stuff. But fuck it if you don't get Daydream Nation - one of the most consistently fascinating documents of four human beings picking up two guitars, a bass guitar, and a drum kit; - if you, kilian murphy, can't listen to that record and find meaning in it... well, I dunno. Fuck it, I guess.
― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 07:22 (twenty years ago) link
But Christ, Sonic Youth! Ah well, whatever.
― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 07:27 (twenty years ago) link
he's only saying that their long players, if played back-to-back, would start to grate: i think this could be said about most long players by most bands (though not many got to make them).
― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 09:56 (twenty years ago) link
― Mr. Snrub (Mr. Snrub), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 12:51 (twenty years ago) link
― Fabrice (Fabfunk), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 13:00 (twenty years ago) link
― cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 22:47 (twenty years ago) link
― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 23:45 (twenty years ago) link
a couple of Mr. Snrub's "destroys" strike me as so counter-productive that i'm assuming he's playing devil's advocate. but generally, isn't arguing about this song or that song just a bit like arguing about spare change in the case of this band ?
― george gosset (gegoss), Thursday, 25 September 2003 02:49 (twenty years ago) link
― Cacaman Flores, Thursday, 25 September 2003 16:16 (twenty years ago) link
― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 25 September 2003 16:33 (twenty years ago) link
I'd always thought that they were presenting their image as a send-up: "We love our indie roots, and still we're not afraid to let you know it." Still, many people love SY cause they can connect certain songs to specific events that happened in their lives. That's not unusual, however.
― Nichole Graham (Nichole Graham), Thursday, 25 September 2003 22:49 (twenty years ago) link
― Fabrice (Fabfunk), Friday, 26 September 2003 06:39 (twenty years ago) link
oh come on: i think its great that some 40 year olds are still making rock music and still having a group that they started with unlike awful 'solo' projects that rockstars have to cash in on their 'fame' (they do have solo projects but just as another thing, SY is always something they all come back to).
― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 26 September 2003 08:04 (twenty years ago) link
that is true, but not for sy and Jim O'Rourke, after ten years of frantic activity, and he's a rock star ? so sy are looking after him, ok.. but where does so-called Thurstin' f'r Moore get off calling O'Rourke "our Eno" ?
― george gosset (gegoss), Friday, 26 September 2003 08:21 (twenty years ago) link
― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Friday, 26 September 2003 08:25 (twenty years ago) link
George if thurston did call O'rouke their ''eno'' i'd say its probably a fair comparison: O'rouke makes solo records, collaborations and produces other people's records.
x-post: I thought it was a joke at first but thiking more abt it i think its a half-joke/half-compliment too.
― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 26 September 2003 08:29 (twenty years ago) link
― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Friday, 26 September 2003 08:35 (twenty years ago) link
― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 26 September 2003 08:40 (twenty years ago) link
― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Friday, 26 September 2003 08:56 (twenty years ago) link
― george gosset (gegoss), Friday, 26 September 2003 10:22 (twenty years ago) link
― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Friday, 26 September 2003 10:35 (twenty years ago) link
― george gosset (gegoss), Friday, 26 September 2003 16:22 (twenty years ago) link
I'd prefer if he got round to focussing on making GOOD records for a change.
― Dadaismus (Dada), Saturday, 27 September 2003 14:37 (twenty years ago) link
i love daydream nation. hence i said:
""DY" is incredible".
"I have trouble following you there.. You think there is bno need for them to have put out so many good albums??"
i used the word "decent" which is different to saying they've released lots of flat out Good albums. most of the post-daydream nation stuff i've heard seems solid, but not worth getting if you already have a couple of the Seriously Good SY records. Most of what they've done sounds like it has a hell of a lot in common with the album before - without much improvement. "Washing Machine" may be an exception.
― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Sunday, 28 September 2003 08:27 (twenty years ago) link
― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Sunday, 28 September 2003 08:55 (twenty years ago) link
tbh, daydream nation is the only one that fits into this category.
― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Sunday, 28 September 2003 08:56 (twenty years ago) link
― sundar subramanian (sundar), Sunday, 28 September 2003 13:46 (twenty years ago) link
― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Sunday, 28 September 2003 22:19 (twenty years ago) link
― seanp (seanp), Sunday, 28 September 2003 22:45 (twenty years ago) link
but people complained that they "didn't rock", or that "the best sonic youth rockers are covers like 'buublegum' or 'hotwire my heart'". Well covering someone else's song is collaboration of a sort too i suppose.
I remember back to when we waited for EVOL and then Sister to come out. Thinking back now, i believe the harmonic language of their alternative guitar rock was in place on those albums, but people who liked typical alternative "rock" just didn't think they went fast enough, etc. I remember thinking songs like 'Catholic Block' 'Pacific Highway' almost did rock, but that the alternative chords were not quite the right chords, and that therefore they 'did not rock' (and the group seemed to be implicitly acknowledging as much with a title like 'Catholic Block' and the act of 'hotwiring' someone else's song)
And then they proved they could and indeed did 'rock' for most people with Daydream Nation (which was a "told you so" moment for people that had had faith in them up till then) and this thread is testament to the fact that that double album is what brings sonic youth fans together, something it seems all their fans can agree on.
and then they got into big business with David Geffen's label. (imo) Goo seems like great comic crossover pop to me, with just enough heaviness. i thought this band was going to save the world from 'heavy metal' at that point.
Unfortunately, it seems Geffen/ grunge/ 'the free market' demanded that Butch Vig produce Dirty as a kind of alt rock manifest, for a new generation of people who liked 'Cool Thing' (which, with Chuck D there was pretty cool).
(And we had to have a loolapolozza (excuse my spelling, but it didn't come to my city or even Auckland (New Zealand), which felt like betrayal). sonic youth had already previously been booked to come to New Zealand but had opted for a support slot for Neil Young for Goo, a year earlier. We understood the economics of their dilemna however and forgave them for no Goo tour.)
(imo) Dirty was sonic youth aiming too low (at the Nirvana market). Maybe it should have been a single album (it came out as a double vinyl lp), or one album for this crowd, one for that, which you can do with 4 different sides of vinyl. Guns and Roses were doing something very similar with 8 sides of vinyl on the same label at the same time. I don't know how Dirty was intended to go, because i suppose everyone was gambling on vinyl vs. cd at that time. It did have five or six songs that i liked on it, but i bought the cd version of it, and so i got fed up with the rest of it. That was where they lost me.
(and the show i saw them do in Christchurch New Zealand in support of Dirty, it was awful, they played _none_ of the songs off Dayderam Nation, but they did play a whole lot of heavy rockers aimed at the metal in the audience, and sonic youth were very condescening to that audience -- uh, sorry, what do you expect from an audience you only play your heavy rockers too ? -- if you don't want kids stage diving off 20 foot PAs at your gigs, why encourage them with that music ? why not change direction on stage and play some of your subtle material ? did you leave those guitars at home ?)
(and lots of bands have been to the South Island of New Zealand since, but not sonic youth)
― george gosset (gegoss), Monday, 29 September 2003 00:34 (twenty years ago) link
Death Valley '69Tom ViolenceShadow of a DoubtExpressway to Yr SkullSchizophreniaBeauty Lies in the EyeTeen Age RiotSilver RocketThe SprawlTotal TrashCandleComputer AgeDirty BootsSugar KaneSuperstar
(77:47, weighted towards melodic tracks with the popular ones from 'Daydream Nation' as a fulcrum - I'd love it if somebody did a latter day disc as I haven't really kept up).
― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Thursday, 13 November 2003 01:03 (twenty years ago) link
Kool Thing100%Creme BruleeBull in the HeatherSweet ShineWashing MachineSaucer LikeThe Diamond SeaSundayFrench TicklerSmall Flowers Crack Concrete NYC Ghosts & FlowersThe Empty Page Disconnection Notice Radical Adults Lick Godhead Style
― scott m (mcd), Thursday, 13 November 2003 01:12 (twenty years ago) link
― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Thursday, 13 November 2003 01:13 (twenty years ago) link
― Mr. Snrub (Mr. Snrub), Thursday, 13 November 2003 01:19 (twenty years ago) link
― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 13 November 2003 01:21 (twenty years ago) link
― scott m (mcd), Thursday, 13 November 2003 01:25 (twenty years ago) link
― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 13 November 2003 01:28 (twenty years ago) link
― Baaderist (Fabfunk), Thursday, 13 November 2003 08:34 (twenty years ago) link
― george gosset (gegoss), Thursday, 13 November 2003 10:19 (twenty years ago) link
their blatent careerism and continued barking for some sort of icon status, it's pathetic. most good alt. bands hit their stride, did it, recorded it, and then went and did something else. not sonic youth. they're different from everybody else. yeah right.
so they need some talent/ideas, recruit o'rourke who sycophantically barks, and still, just like what Phil said upthread, Murray Street is such feeble garbage, so over the hill
they had this sept 11th event that they(1) cashed in on shamelesslyand(2) failed to address in any interesting way on the actual record (oh i forgot, unlike downtown bahgdad, disconnection from isp or electricity can be traumatic for americans if they can't sort it out within a few days)
most everybody i know thinks the same thing about sonic youth -- they should have disbanded years ago, have failed to be relevent except to themselves in the last ten years, are not the alt. flag-bearers for all the other bands they purport to be part of some lineage in, and would appear to be nyc scenester middle-class brats with nothing better to do -- why don't they(1) grow upand(2) shut up
― george gosset (gegoss), Thursday, 13 November 2003 10:33 (twenty years ago) link
― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Thursday, 13 November 2003 10:37 (twenty years ago) link
― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Thursday, 13 November 2003 10:44 (twenty years ago) link
isn't Watt in there in the "tuff-titty rap" ? burning up ? but didn't Watt help them around the studio ? if not, who did help them around the studio ? if they can do that stuff themselves why aren't they trying to save the world with rap/pop type stuff that youth might actually be interested in listening to ?
as to DV69, who wrote the words ? who points the gun ? who co-sings ? the riff's the easiest part of the song .. but "you're right" .. who did that, that great middle section ? the idea .. who's idea ? could they have come up with that idea without all five of them ?
if sy could rock like that then why isn't lunch guesting on seminal sy dross like "society is a hole" from that time ?
― george gosset (gegoss), Thursday, 13 November 2003 11:05 (twenty years ago) link