It's a cruel cruel summer: the sounds of deep tech / shuffle / cuttin shapes / upgrunt house / etc. etc. in 2014

Reading me for some ten plus years must have been quite a trial. You have my condolences.

yeah not all your writing reads like a maths essay about rhythm though. i don't think i've ever listened to music in the way you describe (or explain). like, do you count along???

One of the things garage did as part of its transition from speed garage (which had 4 evenly-spaced kicks per bar, one-two-three-four, like most deep tech) to 2-step (which sparingly placed kicks all over the place, but most commonly on the one and then on the third-off beat - i.e. right before where a fourth kick would go) was keep a kick on the first beat and the third beat but drop out the second and fourth.

i mean i actually know the difference between garage and speed garage when i listen to them but this is like, maths or physics or something to me

Lex, that's not willfully obfuscatory on Tim's part though, it's just the standard vocabulary used to describe rhythm. I think that people who are used to thinking about rhythm in this way (including all trained musicians) just instinctively know which beat of the bar they're on, you can feel it in the pulse of the music and it's particularly straightforward in loop-based music. But I can see how it would look confusing written down - the trick that Tim is describing is what gives two-step beats that kind of skippy feeling, as opposed to the more rigid speed garage (or even more rigid techno).

"reticular snare" and "trebly syncopation"??

but it's not really a vocab issue, it's more that this is just not how i think about or respond to music at all

Yeah okay "reticular snare" is a bit OTT but "trebly syncopation" is a completely valid thing to say about music.

I think you probably DO respond to these things, unless you dance to a rigid 4/4 tech-house track in the same way as a slinky UK garage cut, but these things are designed to provoke instant reactions, in the same way you can respond emotionally to a chord change without having to think about its construction.

Yeah, being a musician, a classically trained dancer (in tap of all styles, which is more rhythmically complex than just about any genre of music you hear), a producer, and a dj, each of those things has taught me to think about rhythm in very particular ways, to the point where a rather heavy portion of how I engage with music is thinking about how particular rhythms work. I just wish I had as rich an understanding of melody and especially harmony, which can hold as many complexities as rhythm, but many of them are lost on me on an intellectual level.

I mean, I don't go into a piece of music counting the beats, but if I'm trying to figure out how a particular rhythm works, sure I do.

right talking about rhythm isnt meant to happen ~while dancing~ or something, these are just terms to help us understand intellectually after the fact what we know instinctively.

rev, i'm curious about the ballroom production scene ... like i know chicago for example has a long running (since the early 1900s) black ballroom scene but it seems like the music is always de-emphasized—like I look up videos, event flyers & etc. and none mention the DJs, the music is always pushed to the background.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzSWtZvs0wo

Is this stuff developing in a localized scene anywhere, or is it pretty much interlinked soundcloud DJs? Obviously there are different sounds depending on where you are, I would def think Chicago has a different sound than Jersey. Are there clubs where this stuff is played all night without the actual balls taking place? Where can I hear individual tracks? That video above features Jack Mizrahi, btw, who had a spot on the deluxe tracks on JLo's album:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSZ5Aq3EGpo

The stuff being talked about in this thread is v obv in the context of a UK-centric dancefloor-oriented scene; I guess I'm curious to what degree the ballroom music is incidental (the way footwork is dance music so specifically functional) or if it's stuff that has traction outside, and what the relationship is between inside/outside, where the exact spaces for 'in' is, particularly in 2014.

right talking about rhythm isnt meant to happen ~while dancing~ or something, these are just terms to help us understand intellectually after the fact what we know instinctively.

Yep.

I probably do think about rhythm when I'm dancing more than most, but more about the interrelationship between the beats and what my body is doing than what specific things the producer has done with the beats.

Awesome mix dude :)

Cheers pal, I'm glad that you liked it 'cause I know you're not always mad about this stuff.
Should hopefully get part 2 recorded and uploaded tomorrow.

Deej: The only dedicated ballroom club night outside of the balls themselves I know of is Vogue Knights in New York, which is founded and promoted by Jack Mizrahi, with MikeQ as the resident DJ. NYC is definitely the center of the scene, although there are a few outposts like DC and Atlanta and other producers sprinkled here and there (like B. Ames is Houston-based). Vjuan Allure was the first to edit MAW's "The Ha Dance" in 2000, which marks the proper start of ballroom as genre, rather than simply tracks that were played at balls (hard percussive house tracks were definitely preferred), although his Ha edits gained traction in DC before NYC and other cities picked up on them. The production scene was mostly developed between producers swapping CDs and giving tracks to established ball DJs and started to become fully formed around the mid-2000s as Jay Karan (his stuff is absulutely fucking nuts, MikeQ and others started producing. I haven't gotten as much of a sense for localized sounds as much as different producers having distinct takes. I don't know anything about the Chicago ball scene, so you might know more there than I do.

Ballroom's relation to function is pretty similar to footwork, as far as being there to facilitate a very specific form of dance. I don't think it has as well-developed an infrastructure to distribute it to the outer world. There's stuff that's readily available but I have to go deep web to find a lot of the stuff I play, a lot of stuff can only be gotten directly from producers. There aren't whole albums of this stuff being released on established labels like footwork. Afaict, most or all of the core producers DJ at "in" spaces (balls, drag pageants, an event like Vogue Knights, other black gay/trans spaces) and most play at least occasionally in "out" spaces. Obviously there are a bunch of "out" producers producing and playing ballroom, but only rarely if ever in "in" spaces.

Probably the best place to hear individual tracks is the Qween Beat (MikeQ's label) soundcloud page. There's some chaff, but most of the important ballroom producers and emcees have been affiliated with Qween Beat at some point or other and that page has a lot of the cream of them, plus you can follow links back to the individual producers from there.

word this stuff is interesting to me.

i do want to note that perhaps the reason ppl around here dont fuck with it isnt nec. taste but bc its so hard to acquire!

oh yeah, there's this thread too thread of ballroom chants, vogueing beats, and associated cuntiness (MikeQ, B. Ames, Vjuan Allure, Jay Karan, etc.)

did not know it existed! *bookmarked*

Still not sure what's possessed me to start doing this again, but here's another mix:
http://www.mixcloud.com/MrAndyM/house-trip-volume-2/

Tracklist:
Hodgson - One Spliff
RS4 & Kane Law - Time Out
Calle Lebraun ft Abbee- Sometimes I (Fantasize)
Retrosynths - Everybody Dance
Kane Law - Free Your Mind
Kele La Roc - My Love (Majesty remix)
Matt Fear - Invasion
Mr & Mrs Smith - London To Dubai
X5 Dubs - Le Sex
Hugo Massien - I Know
Anton Romero - Keep Calm (Aizi Robinson remix)
A2H - Effin Cockneys
James What - In The Dark
Lee Edwards & Storm - Enchanted Nights
Russ Jay - Flavour
Majesty - Mr Backerman
RS4 - In The Dark
Nick Holder - Erotic Illusions (Steve Bug & Martin Landsky remix)
NRKY ft Lenzez - Old Skool Skank
Archie B - On & On
Tazer - Wet Dollars (Donaeo remix)
Second City - I Enter (X5 Dubs remix)
NRKY - Polly Crayon
Nightshift - Dreams
Camo Crooks - Maestro
Jack N Danny - Jump Around
Paul Robinson - Space Rider
KG3 - Believe
Truce ft Kenny Knots - Take Control

Download link here:
https://www.sendspace.com/file/y5p8to
(Also added on the Mixcloud page).

Hopefully not too much overkill in terms of length/number of tunes - for the last 20-30 minutes I was stuck in the zone of 'OK I should think about wrapping this up now - ohh alright, just one more tune' etc etc.

Rev btw the Mike Q Playground mix that you posted is ace. Just stuck on the Vjuan Allure Mixpak FM mix and it's sounding pretty good too so far.

rev dropping knowledge itt

i like this Divoli S'vere mix a ton:
http://dotheastralplane.com/2014/04/15/divoli-svere-mix-for-the-astral-plane/

Ctrl-f "upgrunt"
http://www.theguardian.com/music/2014/dec/30/how-deep-tech-became-clubbings-biggest-success-story

Great piece despite that shocking absence.

are Dusky deep tech? love them

They're not but I like them too.

Part 3 in the mix series now up:

http://www.mixcloud.com/MrAndyM/house-trip-volume-3/

Tracklist:
Just JDan - The Master
Jack N Danny - Flying High
Lost & Found - Lana's Lies
Hugo Massien ft Mavora - Damage
Ante Perry & Kolombo - Completely Positive (Walker & Royce remix)
Oliver Huntemann & Stephan Bodzin - Rubin
DJ Pioneer & TJ ft Dana McKeon - Circles (Truce dub mix)
Lucky Paul ft Mara TK - Elephant Island (Ossie remix)
Theo Nasa - Galaxy Jungle
Jay Cee - Steryophonic
A2H - Sorry's Not Enough
Jack N Danny - On & On
Skinnyfat - Necessity (Praise You)
Mr & Mrs Smith - F The Radio
Limitless - Darkest Part Of Me
Kid Tizoh - Mind Games
Creative Mind - House Of Evil
Jakkin Rabbit - Rock Steady
Hugo Massien - Myndgamez
Syap - Your Hate
Carnao Beats - The Witness
Route 94 - Misunderstood
Danny T - So Much Pressure (AR remix)
Majesty ft Anton Romero - Touch
Archie B - All Night Long
Omex - Murder Sound
Arun Verone - Short From Change
Playtime Productions & Majesty - Cruel Summer (Apollo 84 remix)
Erly - Siren

Download link (Sendspace):
https://www.sendspace.com/file/53v7di
Download link (Mediafire):
http://www.mediafire.com/listen/dl80yksj9n3jvku/HouseMix3.mp3

Holy shit @ this KG3 tune:
https://www.soundcloud.com/strangestatic/kg3-freak

Taken from this great radio set:

https://soundcloud.com/perchmc/aaron-vybe-perch-mc-strange-static-show-14-03-14

Seriously tho this Aaron Vybe radio set is amazing.

Yeah can't really go wrong with Strange Static radio sets.

I need to give some of their more recent ones a listen actually.

IT'S ALL OVER

https://soundcloud.com/hugomassien/hugo-massien-ultra-2015-dub

Hugo Massien is the best.

Also like the idea of Ultra-House.

not feeling that hugo massien tbh

https://soundcloud.com/pathogen-beats/strictly-underground-house-december-edition-mixed-for-wwwlocateyourshootcom

this set by pathogen though, pree the tune at 39:00, the gliding synths, the vocals, some perfect mutant grime house

tune after it sounds like some mojukin madness as well, some fuckery techno thats danceable but weird as fuck

much better than that contrived hugo jawn

https://soundcloud.com/aaronvybe/aaron-vybe-destruction-mix - this 1s not bad as well

having said that though

https://soundcloud.com/crowdedhouseinc/fudge-hugo-massienboxing-day-2014invite-only

this set is pretty fucked

Yeah, he's great. Not sure what your dig is about? It's definitely less subtle than a lot of Mokujin stuff.

Those mixes look great though! Will check them out.

Should mention in passing I also brought in my NYE inducting friends at a house party into deep tech with that Calle Lebraun mix! :D

just wasnt feeling the tune/hyperbole too much but ye hugo is def one to watch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-DgjPTxjVs

hugo massien - sbtv

Tracklisting
KG3 - Tell Me
Nightshift - Made You Look (Hugo Massien Remix VIP)
Hugo Massien x Blazey Bodynod - Pump U Up
Camo Crooks - Insomnia
Redlight - 9Ts (Tolerance Beatz ft. Beege Remix)
Nightshift - Tremors
Hugo Massien - Better Let Her
Clean Bandit & Jess Glynne - Real Love (Ollie Julien & Shaun Dean Remix)
Riaz Dhanani - On A Mission
Jay Cas - They Don’t Know
Hugo Massien - Fahrenheit
RS4 - Love You Girl (Dub)
Hugo Massien - Kontrol
Formula - You Make Me
J Brown - Pump It Up
KG3 - Believe
Hugo Massien - All Night

just to show theres no hard feelings ;)

Rediscovering Massien's "String Tek": such a great addition to the Nasty Crew --> "Gabryelle" --> ??? continuum.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIhpooLUiGw

TUNE

monster TUNE, controversial addition itt but on reflection allowable

https://soundcloud.com/spinnin-deep/pep-rash-rumors-original-mix

even less germane but my shit right now is THIS

spinnin > motown

― r|t|c, Saturday, 24 May 2014 18:15 Bookmark

I justify on the basis that i heard it in one of Nightshift's amaze mine eyes have seen the glory House Sessions sets.

On that note also: Marcellus Wallace & That Guy's "Heavyweight", though it's not circulating in standalone form yet.

https://soundcloud.com/spinnin-deep/pep-rash-rumors-original-mix

even less germane but my shit right now is THIS

― r|t|c, Tuesday, January 27, 2015 12:38 PM (12 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

holy shit @ this epochal banger, i am shocked to my very foundations

oh excellent that nightshift set was on my to do list

feel really bad for trilliam that all the major deep tech players seem to keep falling for these popular falsehoods rather than pursuing the one true path of rustic artisanal and definitely not contrived ruff sqwad 2002 playstation beats

seasoned fans will recognise of course that yes i am simultaneously using both realness and popist sticks to beat everyone itt with

deep tech players dropping tunes like "ghosts" et. al. is surely within the one true definition of realness, you have to understand the rules in yr bones to flout them at surface level with such swag.

wish I had forever screenshotted the spizzazzz explanation of R&B diva ballad realness.

in the soundcloud comments there for massien's 'ultra' (mind-altering) there's a guy in raptures (an american, who i suspect has posted earlier itt, possibly astrochimp?) who breathlessly invokes photek, which is v otm i feel, only not entirely in a positive way - there is def a "rupert and hugo advance the streets" vibe that is being glommed on to and that does a tasteless disservice to the rest of the scene

tune is sicker though. is anyone else hearing it as total depeche mode homage?!

in my head it fits nicely with this incredible thing from late last year which almost seems to perform the unintentionally witty feat of mashing up conspiciously consumptive 'bugatti' with like one of the on-u sound 12" dubs of 'people are people'

https://soundcloud.com/kanelawmusic/kane-laws-bugatti-played-by-mark-radford-on-rinse-fm

patrick topping, dj haus and other stuff have made me frequently wonder if a return to a really blocky 1980s yello/art of noise sound wasnt in the offing but idk

feel really bad for trilliam that all the major deep tech players seem to keep falling for these popular falsehoods rather than pursuing the one true path of rustic artisanal and definitely not contrived ruff sqwad 2002 playstation beats

huh ?

nothing wrong with djs playing either of them two tunes although ill admit they dont do much for me.

xpost yeah "Ultra" is totally Depeche Mode. It's that sense of simultaneous cleanliness and smut, like a latex-gloved hand poking out of a leather jacket.