"EVERY HUGE ARTIST HAS A BE HERE NOW" AKA the UK version

xp

i still hear sing on the radio occasionally and its still used in tv ads

The "Diana's death killed Britpop" connection is as spurious as suggesting that everything in the charts in 1981 sounded like Ghost Town. Pop doesn't respond to the zeitgeist in such a neat way. Britpop becoming irredeemably shit killed Britpop.

xposts to RM/RM

I'm 34, so I was about 16/17 when Be Here Now and FOTL came out. Maybe we're disagreeing cos we're looking at things from a qualitative vs commercial POV here, but I honestly don't remember interest in Oasis waning at all after Be Here Now, shit album or not. The scales may have fallen from the eyes of a few high-ranking musos at the time, but many reviews were positive and they continued to be a huge saturating force in the UK and abroad even up to about 2000 in my recollection.
I honestly remember the same thing with the Prodigy. Yeah they took ages to release anything after FOTL, but what did appear was cobblers and I don't remember that many people anticipating their return half as much as in the lead up to FOTL. This was based largely on the lameness of that record and the shark-jumping tactics it employed.

not what i said. I said it stalled Be Here Now

xp

xp "many reviews were positive" That is exactly the point. It was the greatest failure of critical judgement in the history of the UK music press. Everyone hailed it as a masterpiece and then felt nauseous with regret, hence the ferocity of the backlash. Even Noel grew to hate it. It's hard to argue with someone else's memory but I was writing about this stuff at the time and I've revisited it in detail since so, er, u r rong.

Whats The Story got bad reviews and the press got it wrong so they overcompensated with Be Here Now (BHN is still better than every Oasis album after but that is not saying much)

has anyone got any older examples of this kind of thing?

i was thinking tears for fears but there was such a long gap between albums so i doubt it counts

Stand By Me was still a massive hit, it was stopped from getting to number one by Elton but The Drugs Don't Work would have done if it had come out a week later. Around the World flew to number one in the new year. Commercially it did just fine at first. It did stop selling after about eight months unlike the first two albums which were still in the charts way after it. It did extremely well critically too. Sure, OK Computer, Ladies & Gentlemen We Are Floating In Space and Urban Hymns did a lot better but it still appeared in just about every list. Not sure exactly when the press started turning on it so much. The first sign I saw of it being slagged off was when Chris Evans did a sketch about it in a hospital on TFI Friday. It was something along the lines of him trying to bring it back to life and ending with "There's nothing we can do to save it" as he help up a copy of the album. Who knew he could be such a trend setter.

It was never going to hang around in the charts so long purely cuz it sold about 2million in the 1st month

True but hadn't Morning Glory sold double that by that point and people were still buying that way after.

Ironic diss from the epitome of late-Britpop malaise

My folks (as a surprise after seeing in advertised in the newspaper) bought me the Be Here Vinyl box for that xmas. Ive never played it. Used to see loads in second hand shops.

They were always going to be a major commercial force because they had a critical mass of fans who would go out and buy every record no matter how shit they became, they just weren't going to go away, but if you think they were the same force pre- and post-Be Here Now then you don't remember quite how culturally ubiquitous they were in 95-96.

Channel four did one of those best albums of all time countdowns in October the following year and Be Here Now made the top 30. The public were on its side at first. I remember the people on the show (Bob Geldof, Paul Gambaccini and Justine Frischmann) were all very disappointed to see it place so high. I think the biggest proof of what they lost with that album is the muted reaction Standing on the Shoulder of Giants got. Can't remember the exact sales but it was so low compared to Be Here Now.

RM/RM I'm not denying what you say about BHN's commerciality necessarily but I don't see how what you say negates FOTL following a similar qualitative path. Both records were hugely anticipated, both turned out to be a lot less exciting than had been anticipated. Neither is particularly fondly remembered by fans, even though either album did little to dent their respective bands' overall popularity for at least a couple of years.

Anyway this is a longer argument than I'd expected so..

Right enough J

Album Of The Millennium

Autumn 1997 Channel 4 and HMV, in association with The Guardian newspaper, joined forces to find out what the British public considers to be the best music of this millennium. Every type of music was eligible: from the Beatles to Beethoven; from country to classical; from pop to hip hop. It was the most ambitious survey ever undertaken.

Sgt Pepper

1. The Beatles - Sgt Peppers Lonely Hearts Club Band
2. The Stone Roses - The Stone Roses
3. The Beatles - Revolver
4. Radiohead - The Bends
5. Oasis - What's The Story? (Morning Glory)
6. Pink Floyd - Dark Side Of The Moon
7. Radiohead - OK Computer
8. Nirvana - Nevermind
9. Van Morrison - Astral Weeks
10. The Beatles - The White Album
11. Bob Dylan - Blood On The Tracks
12. The Beatles - Abbey Road
13. Miles Davis - A Kind Of Blue
14. Oasis - Definitely Maybe
15. The Smiths - The Queen Is Dead
16. Bob Dylan - Blonde On Blonde
17. Marvin Gaye - What's Going On?
18. R.E.M. - Automatic For The People
19. U2 - The Joshua Tree
20. David Bowie - The Rise And Fall Of Ziggy Stardust
21. Massive Attack - Blue Lines
22. Velvet Underground - Velvet Underground And Nico
23. Fleetwood - Mac Rumours
24. The Sex Pistols Never - Mind The Bollocks
25. Prodigy - The Fat Of The Land
26. The Beach Boys - Pet Sounds
27. Bob Dylan - Highway 61 Revisited
28. Alanis Morissette - Jagged Little Pill
29. Portishead - Dummy
30. Oasis - Be Here Now
31. Jimi Hendrix - Electric Ladyland
32. Primal Scream - Screamadelica
33. Paul Simon - Graceland
34. Pulp - Different Class
35. Joni Mitchell - Blue
36. The Clash - London Calling
37. Simon & Garfunkel - Bridge Over Troubled Water
38. The Rolling Stones - Exile On Main Street
39. The Beatles - Rubber Soul
40. Manic Street Preachers - Everything Must Go
41. Captain Beefheart And The Magic Band - Trout Mask Replica
42. Love - Forever Changes
43. David Bowie - Hunky Dory
44. Lou Reed - Transformer
45. Pink Floyd - Wish You Were Here
46. Bruce Springsteen - Born To Run
47. Meatloaf - Bat Out Of Hell
48. Blur - Parklife
49. Pink Floyd - The Wall
50. Joy Division - Closer
51. The Rolling Stones - Let It Bleed
52. Stevie Wonder - Songs In The Key Of Life
53. U2 - Achtung Baby
54. The Verve - Urban Hymns
55. George Michael - Older
56. The Clash - The Clash
57. Pixies - Doolittle
58. Bob Marley & The Wailers - Legend
59. Dire Straits - Brothers in Arms
60. Prodigy - Music For The Jilted Generation
61. The Band - The Band
62. Spice Girls - Spice
63. Leftfield - Leftism
64. Jimi Hendrix - Are You Experienced?
65. Led Zeppelin - Led Zeppelin IV
66. Manic Street Preachers - The Holy Bible
67. Michael Jackson - Thriller
68. Neil Young After - The Gold Rush
69. Queen - A Night At The Opera
70. The Doors - The Doors
71. Carole King - Tapestry
72. Mike Oldfield - Tubular Bells
73. Prince - Sign Of The Times
74. Led Zeppelin - Physical Graffiti
75. Bob Dylan - Bringing It All Back Home
76. Joy Division - Unknown Pleasures
77. Frank Sinatra - Songs For Swinging Lovers
78. Kate Bush - Hounds Of Love
79. Patti Smith - Horses
80. The Smiths - Hatful Of Hollow
81. John Lennon - Imagine
82. Suede - Dog Man Star
83. Beck - Odelay
84. Ocean Colour Scene - Moseley Shoals
85. The Smiths - The Smiths
86. Jeff Buckley - Grace
87. Led Zeppelin - Led Zeppelin II
88. Tricky - Maxinquaye
89. Van Morrison - Moondance
90. John Coltrane - Love Supreme
91. Bjork - Debut
92. Public Enemy - It Takes A Nation Of Millions….
93. R.E.M. - Out Of Time
94. Television - Marquee Moon
95. Tori Amos - Little Earthquakes
96. Michael Jackson - HIStory
97. DJ Shadow - Endtroducing
98. The Verve - A Northern Soul
99. The Eagles - Hotel California
100. Elton John - Goodbye Yellow Brick Road

Worth it for bob geldofs indignation about the stone roses. he thought only albums of his generation were worthy

Goes without saying but good god that list

Only British acts in the top 7. Would that happen today?

Yeah I remember that too. Bob and Paul were so disgusted The Stone Roses could be ahead of any Beatles (Even though they were number one anyway)

Sidestepping competing memories and opinions about musical quality for a minute, isn't it crucially significant that Be Here Now and New Jersey both sold roughly half as much as their predecessors? Ditto the Kaiser Chiefs, Scissor Sisters, Catatonia and Travis albums, whereas the Prodigy or Chems records sold twice as much. Bigger first-week sales but a 40-60% drop-off in the long run seems like as close to an objective working definition as you can get.

i know lots on here hate the roses but i was chuffed one of my fave albums got so high AND annoyed sir bob. Why should the canon stop after the 60s/70s .

Bigger first-week sales but a 40-60% drop-off in the long run seems like as close to an objective working definition as you can get.

good point

right, lets work through these

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_albums_of_the_1980s_in_the_United_Kingdom

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_albums_of_the_1970s_in_the_United_Kingdom

http://www.pure80spop.co.uk/bestsellersalbums.htm

http://www.popjustice.com/forum/threads/25287-Top-100-Best-Selling-Albums-Of-The-80s

must be a level 42 album thats appropriate

Think I mentioned this on the og New Jersey thread, but surely Favourite Worst Nightmare by Arctic Monkeys fits here?

But their last album was a comeback in every market, especially here.

is there a Genesis album that would fit?

But their last album was a comeback in every market, especially here.

Oh sure, not disputing that.

Not sure. Their last Collins album was We Can't Dance which was a huge hit. And with "Calling all stations", it's almost like it's a different band.

xpost genesis

We Can't Dance made the last New Jersey thread.

it def qualifies

we also put but seriously on the poll and man i gotta give it up for someone who plausibly released two new jerseys back to back

i mean talk about proof of omnipresence

i was going to say '13' by blur but i see i was beaten to it. i think Matt DC's suggestion of 'the great escape' kinda fits in a way, but it's more like the 'rattle and hum', in which the blur self-titled album is their 'achtung baby.'

if we're talking britpop, i might suggest supergrass 'in it for the money', which was more successful than the first album but i think it almost felt like they'd exhausted a lot of their energy already and the excitement was gone. like i think part of a NJ is that feeling that as happy or content you are to own the album in question, or at least you don't regret it, you as a fan no longer have a vested interest in getting the followup.

*speaking of U2, i'm a fan and i think in a sense 'how to dismantle an atomic' bomb fits here (also already mentioned!) funny thing is it seems to me obviously U2's weakest album, but also obviously that they thought they were being a bit experimental when it comes off as by-the-numbers. some of those songs are pretty great live, though, and vertigo is the better of their two 'highly compressed guitar hero singles' ('get on your boots' being the other.)

'no line on the horizon' is better than HTDAAB and 'songs of innocence' would probably be more highly regarded if it wasn't for the way it was delivered, which was something akin to how foie gras is made. i dunno, i like both their last two.

From the og thread:

so instead of studying for a test i'm trying to come up with TIERS
the New Jersey: a huge event album that's massive by all reasonable standards but is shadowed by the album(s) that ironically are the only reason it was massive, since it was pretty damn shallow on its own merits (i.e. New Jersey, Spellbound, For Those About To Rock, Spirits Having Flown, Afterburner, Fore!, Be Here Now in the UK)

the Fairweather Johnson: a huge event album that still sells better than it should've thanks to the band's previous success, but one could almost immediately sense fortunes going considerably southward even if one was a fan (i.e. Fairweather Johnson, Supposed Former Infatuation Junkie, Nine Lives, Be Here Now in the US)

― da croupier, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 23:25 (2 years ago) Permalink

Prepared to be shouted down on this one, but by this criteria is Pulp - This Is Hardcore sort of a UK Fairweather Johnson?

Replace 'still sells better than it should've' with 'still sells better than it might have otherwise', perhaps.

I let This Is Hardcore off the hook because it's a self-loathing rejection of pop success rather than a craven attempt to hold onto it. It was less Different Class Part 2 than Fuck Different Class, Fuck All of You.

it did come across more of an in utero self sabotage tbf

pulp was even higher profile with promotion etc in the us with this is hardcore, between that, singles like "party hard" (and in the us, "like a friend") and the fact that they submitted a fuckin bond theme i find the idea they were rejecting success kind of dubious

did the 2nd Darkness album have a big single/#1 album placing or was it just an almighty flop?

"if it wasn't for the way it was delivered, which was something akin to how foie gras is made."

I appreciate this line v much

dog latin there's a new prodigy track

did the 2nd Darkness album have a big single/#1 album placing or was it just an almighty flop?

Christmas single in between the two albums was a big hit, but the second album went silver to the debut's 4x platinum.

did the 2nd Darkness album have a big single/#1 album placing or was it just an almighty flop?

― Cosmic Slop, Monday, January 12, 2015 6:53 PM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

It did really startlingly poor business right off the bat. In at number 11 with a bullet. Two singles scraped the top 10 but left no trace. Only two years earlier they were inescapable.

I do recall being surprised at the time that This Is Hardcore got to number 1; despite the massiveness of Different Class (and the fact that TiH is pretty great) it didn't seem like a given at all. But it sold around 50,000 in the first week? which was not to be sniffed at, in early 98.

2nd Darkness more analogous to 2nd Duffy - confident late-November release for the follow up to the hugest thing imaginable; zero impact; no way back.

(Adele was playing catch up to Duffy for all of 2008 but her timing was rather better 2nd time around)

I forgot all about Duffy

I know that Be Here Now is often held up as being the album that "killed Britpop", and in some ways I agree with this thinking. In hindsight, it's fucking insane how much was expected of that album for a whole lot of people, and it's easy to forget how much was expected of that album at the time. Thinking about it now, from a 2015 perspective, there was absolutely no way that Oasis could possibly have delivered what Be Here Now was supposed to be in the minds of many, and when people heard it back then and were disappointed by it, I think there was this sense of people trying to convince themselves that it was a good record. Goodness knows why. Possibly they thought that Be Here Now was meant to be the Britpop record to end all records and they were gutted that's not what they got.

On the other hand, it's tempting to say that the death of Britpop actually began with not just the Oasis vs. Blur chart war, but the Oasis vs. Blur thing in general. While on one hand, the media attention from this created a huge surge in popularity, it was also a change from Britpop as musical statement (as Blur intended it to be on Modern Life Is Rubbish), to Britpop as a "cultural moment". Record companies started capitalising on the surge in popularity by signing a whole slew of bands, a lot of which weren't actually very good. The popularity of Oasis led to the popularity of retro-rock (dubbed by the NME as Noelrock) in general. Britpop stopped being about albums like Suede and Modern Life Is Rubbish and became more about (What's The Story) Morning Glory? and Moseley Shoals and "mad fer it" and "let's have it" and all that stuff.

So what happened as a result of all of that is that the likes of Blur moved on while retaining an audience, yet the retro-rockers (Oasis, Ocean Colour Scene etc.) stayed the same to diminishing returns, and people eventually got bored shitless and moved on.

HOWEVER!

I do seem to recall post-Be Here Now that there was this sense of "okay, what now? Oasis have blown it, who is going to be the next Oasis-level success?" in the press. The press latched onto the Manic Street Preachers (great things were expected from This Is My Truth Tell Me Yours), The Verve (Urban Hymns) and Radiohead (OK Computer). Of course, the Manics delivered their worst record to date, so it wasn't going to be them. The Verve split up, so it wasn't going to be them either. Radiohead had released what many were already deeming to be an absolute classic with OK Computer, so things started to go down that route: first Travis, then Coldplay and Muse.

In hindsight, Kid A could have easily been a Be Here Now if they'd chosen to just re-do OK Computer but bigger, but instead of going the Be Here Now route they went the Blur route and played the "get out" card.

if we're talking britpop, i might suggest supergrass 'in it for the money', which was more successful than the first album but i think it almost felt like they'd exhausted a lot of their energy already and the excitement was gone. like i think part of a NJ is that feeling that as happy or content you are to own the album in question, or at least you don't regret it, you as a fan no longer have a vested interest in getting the followup.

― LIKE If you are against racism (omar little), Monday, January 12, 2015 5:59 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I totally disagree. I considered In It For The Money their best record in 1997 and still consider it to be one of their two strongest records. It made me more excited for a follow-up than I Should Coco did. I continued to buy Supergrass albums up until they split, but if there is any record of theirs that I could point to and say "yeah, that's the turning point", then it's the self-titled record. 'Pumping On Your Stereo' and 'Moving' were the hits, but after that record they were definitely playing for the fanbase.

xp otm until "absolute classic" obv, best just to say be here now killed it and leave Radiohead out of britpop discussion- theyd exited the conversation at that stage anyway