Burial

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CoM text breaking did indeed happen with the Walker review. It'sbcz of the word that I am shortening to WWWWWWWWWWHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATZ.....ZKSCREAMSGOOOOOOOD.

Raw Patrick (Raw Patrick), Thursday, 1 June 2006 07:53 (eighteen years ago) link

I thought that a record as cinematic as The Drift demanded a cinemascopic treatment...also that particular passage had to stand as it was because it was perhaps the most painful thing I've ever written in CoM, or the thing which has caused me the most pain to write because it involved confronting personal demons which I had long strived to avoid, but which listening to the record had provoked.

In any event I have divided the passage up into digestible lines, and the Burial piece is now up for lovers of "nonsensical flowery prose."

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 1 June 2006 08:26 (eighteen years ago) link

Much more readable now.

Good job on the Burial, Marcello. And I might buy that Ishiguro on the way home from work.

Raw Patrick (Raw Patrick), Thursday, 1 June 2006 10:54 (eighteen years ago) link

when i said it was like urban tribe i just meant that it's all whispery haunted house noises, eerie synthsd and jay dee boom clack boom clack beats. so far it doesn't seem to have the range of UT. also it doesn't have the whole afro/jazz thing going on - this could be positive or negative, depending on yr mood.

renegade bear shot by cops on frat row (vahid), Thursday, 1 June 2006 14:07 (eighteen years ago) link

marcello, nothing personal, but your blog piece sums up why brit music writing disgusts me.

three paragraphs of deeply gross classist handwringing about the "working class" - do you really only see "wretchedness" every time you see someone in the lowest tax bracket? and i like this one: "they are given the illusion of education and enlightenment" - aren't you also culpable? why are you so willing to see the education of "people who work in call-centre servitude" as illusion?

followed by five paragraphs of blogging about blogging.

followed by several paragraphs of vaguely musicological nonsense:

"record looks and feels like something unofficial, unauthorised; an urgent samizdat, a desperate plea from an ending world, an artefact whose emotions are so necessary to communicate that packaging would constitute both delay and distraction."

dude, it looks like any techstep album from the early 2000s!!

"The beats are too shadowed and distant for dancing; this music is to be felt in other parts of the soul as well as listened to"

yuck, stale IDM rhetoric pt 9,000,000

"

renegade bear shot by cops on frat row (vahid), Thursday, 1 June 2006 14:17 (eighteen years ago) link

etc etc

renegade bear shot by cops on frat row (vahid), Thursday, 1 June 2006 14:17 (eighteen years ago) link

sorry. that was sort of weak. brits in failure to keep it real shocker. anyway, don't buy the burial album for any of the reasons marcello said, unless yr british. i think americans and brits just have different emotional buttons or something, it's really hard to take all of the hyperbole about burial seriously.

renegade bear shot by cops on frat row (vahid), Thursday, 1 June 2006 14:33 (eighteen years ago) link

let me bring the positivity to counter my out-of-line dissing of the UK - i hope ellen allien makes a faux-dubstep album!!

renegade bear shot by cops on frat row (vahid), Thursday, 1 June 2006 14:35 (eighteen years ago) link

I think "DNFTT" is the only rational response here.

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 1 June 2006 14:35 (eighteen years ago) link

only thing that can save dubstep from itself = IDM!! ellen allien, shadetek, junior boys, etc etc all have tremendous energy to add to the scene. the upshot is that unlike drill'n'bass this round of IDM-infused bass music will be LISTENABLE.

renegade bear shot by cops on frat row (vahid), Thursday, 1 June 2006 14:36 (eighteen years ago) link

i'm hardly a troll but maybe i'm trolling. still, is this thread about burial/dubstep or is it a vanity thread about CoM? if it's the latter, i have no place being here and i'll get off the thread. if it's the former, i think i'm within my rights to say that your piece on burial is pretty bad. and that your opinions are wrong.

renegade bear shot by cops on frat row (vahid), Thursday, 1 June 2006 14:40 (eighteen years ago) link

ILM is all about disagreement, right??

anyway you should be apologizing to ME, i've worked in a call center and i don't think you should be calling me "wretched".

renegade bear shot by cops on frat row (vahid), Thursday, 1 June 2006 14:41 (eighteen years ago) link

sometimes I'd like to live the American Dream vahid

I'm wondering if the relative unoriginality of the cover makes it any less powerful if you're coming to it with a fresh mind? In isolation I think it's a great cover.

I think Marcello was just trying to avoid the pat, idiotic "this is more of a listening album y'know" staple than reinforce IDM cliches. Though they are annoying, I'll take the anything over the former, and I think the latter is almost dead for anyone but sheltered "alternative music" fans by 2006.

fandango (fandango), Thursday, 1 June 2006 14:41 (eighteen years ago) link

and the "nonsensical flowery prose" takes a bow. i still can't wait to see what luciano brings out.

who doesn't use stale IDM rhetoric these days, vahid?

i second the faux-dubstep album - but isn't that what Various Productions is trying to do?

natedey (ndeyoung), Thursday, 1 June 2006 14:42 (eighteen years ago) link

I couldn't disagree more about IDM "saving" Dubstep (have you heard the Boxcutter album? Dreary.) but I agree it has pitfalls to avoid (from d'n'b mostly).

fandango (fandango), Thursday, 1 June 2006 14:45 (eighteen years ago) link

I've worked in a call centre and I don't take it personally, they can be wretched. Since our industry went south (no, not London) it's all a lot of people can do, and I mean over-educated people people with degrees that now are useless, not people happy for a break from unemployment, working themselves up, retraining, new skills and all that. And even these existing jobs are being outsourced to India a lot of the time.

fandango (fandango), Thursday, 1 June 2006 15:19 (eighteen years ago) link

boxcutter= amazingly well produced and engineered rubbish. A million dazzling effects and edits you've heard a million times before. Its almost the precise and diametric opposite of the Burial album...

gekoppel (Gekoppel), Thursday, 1 June 2006 16:21 (eighteen years ago) link

vahid's comment that the burial record looks like techstep from the early 2000s has sold me on this more than anything else.

marcello you made the ishiguro sound worth checking out. it sounds like a zenned out cross between houellebecq and murakami.

breakfast pants (disco stu), Thursday, 1 June 2006 18:49 (eighteen years ago) link

I think what annoys me about these "cinematic" dubstep beats is that they often sound so stiltedly unphysical. One of the points about having beats hovering at circa 135 bpm is that you can get a really great hip-focused groove going, but dubpstep extracts the hips and frequently what is left is this stilted anti-flow, this stiffness that sounds like the music has been broken or winded or crushed by a corsette, a machine that's had some vital part removed and can't work properly.

Techstep did this too (this is part of the similarity) but the speed and the shameless use of breakdowns and climaxes gave it a sense of a broken machine spiralling out of control. With dubstep - slower and seemingly suspicious of the notion of song dynamic - that never happens.

The Dom & Roland Industry comparison makes a lot of sense for me, above and beyond the fact that Industry is definitely my favourite techstep album. I think Burial beats out Dom & Roland on the texture front, the warp and weave of the samples etc. But D&R beats out Burial on the beats/grooves front because, even when it's basically a straightforward 2-step groove (maybe 4 tracks or so), there's a real energy and intensity to the groove, a friction between the physicality of the beats and the lush mournfulness of the textures and melodies - when this is combined with an excitingly syncopated rhythm (on tracks like "Thunder", "Chained On Both Sides" and especially the peerless "Elektra") it's unstoppable.

It's clear that Burial can construct excitingly syncopated rhythms and on the best tracks that's what he does, but frequently he still sounds caught within dubstep's horizon of wounded undynamic grooves, like a post-Timbaland version of the leaden, lumpen boom-bap which drags down so much comparable downtempo.

Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Thursday, 1 June 2006 22:15 (eighteen years ago) link

but dubpstep extracts the hips and frequently what is left is this stilted anti-flow, this stiffness that sounds like the music has been broken or winded or crushed by a corsette, a machine that's had some vital part removed and can't work properly.

OTM. i just cannot get as excited about this as other things going on.

trees (treesessplode), Thursday, 1 June 2006 22:58 (eighteen years ago) link

Isn't that, er, the point?

Finney's comments are akin to criticising Saint Etienne for not being Menswear.

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Friday, 2 June 2006 06:43 (eighteen years ago) link

???? Marcello help me unpack that analogy, I'm feeling tipsy and dense and can't even work out what the relationship b/w Saint Etienne and Menswear is right now, let alone how my comments relate to it.

NB 1. I don't have an issue with rhythms sounding like broken machines. It's just that ideally a broken machine should sound, well, dangerous, rather than merely, well mildly impaired.

NB 2. I'm not saying that the entire album suffers from this, only about half.

Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Friday, 2 June 2006 09:09 (eighteen years ago) link

Might you not consider it a simulacrum of "dangerous"? The punctum here lies in how it suggests, and perhaps even seeps "dangerous" without snarling it out in capital letters (which is another reason why "Spaceape" doesn't really work)?

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Friday, 2 June 2006 09:11 (eighteen years ago) link

industry is not my favorite techstep album, but it's very close to the top.

can someone finish this? industry is to blade runner as burial is to ... ? artificial intelligence??

breakfast pants (disco stu), Friday, 2 June 2006 12:59 (eighteen years ago) link

and can anyone do without using the word "punctum"?

jewess harvell (dubplatestyle), Friday, 2 June 2006 13:33 (eighteen years ago) link

Hi Jess!

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Friday, 2 June 2006 13:46 (eighteen years ago) link

What's the sample on "Night Bus" that I recognize so well?

gaseous (gaseous), Friday, 2 June 2006 20:08 (eighteen years ago) link

Not sure about "Night Bus," but fwiw Burial's "Nite Train" (from the EP) samples Michael Jackson's "Rock With You."

tate (Tate), Friday, 2 June 2006 21:48 (eighteen years ago) link

actually i was going to ask what the film sample on the last track was "i woke up, went into the bathroom for some aspirin..."

jed_ (jed), Friday, 2 June 2006 22:03 (eighteen years ago) link

"Might you not consider it a simulacrum of "dangerous"? The punctum here lies in how it suggests, and perhaps even seeps "dangerous" without snarling it out in capital letters (which is another reason why "Spaceape" doesn't really work)?"

I suspect I am not being particularly clear here:

I think (and it appears that I agree with you on this perhaps) the beats on Burial's album are best when they're not trying to be obviously dangerous, when they're at their loosest and prettiest, e.g. the first proper track and the track with the sampled reggae vocals towards the end (sorry I'm not totally on top of tracknames much yet). These tracks are still pretty dark sounding, but part of that is due to the thickness of the arrangements and the slightly foreboding use of spatialisation - the way the sounds emerge and recede so boldly. It's also partly due to what Simon R called the "murderous panache" (or something to that effect) of proper 2-step a la Artful Dodger - beats don't have to be obviously doom and gloom to feel threatening.

The weakest beats are the ones which cleave closest to the current dubstep norm of a sort of self-contained hard-brokenness. These ones seem to fall between two stools: they have that wounded, muscly quality of techstep, but none of the sense of release you get with the best techstep. It's most obvious on the Spaceape track but even with some of the better tracks like "Southern Comfort" I'm left thinking "the beat is the weakest part of this track."

Actually the Dom & Roland album shares this affliction to the extent that all techstep did - there's a track on it co-produced with Optical which is very hard and very carefully arranged, but so constipated in feel that it never generates any interesting tension. I guess if there's one word I'd use to describe bad dubstep beats it'd be constipated.

Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Friday, 2 June 2006 23:31 (eighteen years ago) link

beats fall like hardened stools

renegade bear shot by cops on frat row (vahid), Friday, 2 June 2006 23:35 (eighteen years ago) link

precisely! er

Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Friday, 2 June 2006 23:40 (eighteen years ago) link

dubstep ISNT about drums tho. Thats why its exciting (oddly.) Its post ecstatic dance music.

gekoppel (Gekoppel), Saturday, 3 June 2006 12:04 (eighteen years ago) link

Most of the dubstep I listen to is almost entirely made up of drums and little else, save some warbley bass.

jimnaseum (jimnaseum), Saturday, 3 June 2006 14:53 (eighteen years ago) link

you can't put mans in a room with no sub!

(or, trying to listen to this stuff on an iPod is frustratingly incomplete)

fandango (fandango), Saturday, 3 June 2006 15:07 (eighteen years ago) link

Totally. Late last year I spent an enjoyable Plaid (yeah, they were playing dubstep) gig leaning on the subs. Felt like the bass was going to choke me.

jimnaseum (jimnaseum), Saturday, 3 June 2006 15:26 (eighteen years ago) link

its all about the bass pressure, best experienced in a club- its a physical thing-- much more physical than any beat--- the tracks are specifically engineered to be as massive bass wise as possible on finely tuned club systems

gekoppel (Gekoppel), Saturday, 3 June 2006 16:09 (eighteen years ago) link

not surprised about plaid playing dubstep - i think one of my first thoughts when i heard "request line" was how much it sounded like plaid or two lone swordsmen.

renegade bear shot by cops on frat row (vahid), Saturday, 3 June 2006 18:27 (eighteen years ago) link

so ... where is the deep thinker known around these parts as BOY CHILD?

renegade bear shot by cops on frat row (vahid), Saturday, 3 June 2006 18:28 (eighteen years ago) link

I wouldn't mind hearing a whole track from this, 'cause I was not feeling the snippets linked on the other thread. There might have been some okay beats happening in there, but they're drenched in enough reverb as to be unintelligible and attack-free. Maybe I don't "get it".

Jordan (Jordan), Saturday, 3 June 2006 18:44 (eighteen years ago) link

"Night Bus" sample/simularity = Fennesz "Rivers of Sand"

gaseous (gaseous), Saturday, 3 June 2006 18:45 (eighteen years ago) link

Its just in a similar sounding minmor key I think. Same feel tho (aching melancholy)

gekoppel (Gekoppel), Saturday, 3 June 2006 19:28 (eighteen years ago) link

Midnight Request Line sounds like Plaid? Do you mean harmonically or in terms of sound design? Surely not the latter. Skream's sounds on MRL strike me as far too fluttery, slightly-cheapo preset-like to merit much of a Plaid comparison. (This is not a value judgment btw).

Tim, you said that you found the beat in "Southern Comfort" to be the weakest part of the track. Do you also consider it "constipated," i.e., do you include it among the dubstep tunes that don't "generate any tension"?

tate (Tate), Saturday, 3 June 2006 21:15 (eighteen years ago) link

hear a whole track here - http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/collective/A11818271

(albeit shitty real audio may not be worth the effort)

fandango (fandango), Saturday, 3 June 2006 23:27 (eighteen years ago) link

"Tim, you said that you found the beat in "Southern Comfort" to be the weakest part of the track. Do you also consider it "constipated," i.e., do you include it among the dubstep tunes that don't "generate any tension"? "

I guess I wouldn't go quite so far w/r/t "Southern Comfort", although there's something about the way it loops into itself which bugs me - the variation on every 8th bar is better than the usual beat. "You Hurt Me" has a v. similar beat structure but I like the beat more (also it has those awesome, albeit too sparing "DROP!" samples).

I love the rhythm programming on "Gutted" though - even though it's barely there!

In retrospect it's only "Spaceape" that is actively bad in this sense. Though i could take or leave "Prayer", and while "Wounder" works it's not for the beats.

If it was an EP along the lines of:

Distant Lights
Night Bus
You Hurt Me
Gutted
Broken Home
Forgive

... It would be unimpeachable.

Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Sunday, 4 June 2006 12:59 (eighteen years ago) link

does "spaceape" feature the vocal stylings of THE spaceape, the one from dubstep allstars vol 3?

because his presence on vol 3 IS "actively bad", in fact it's terrible, and i can't believe people aren't calling kode 9 out on it!

not only is it sort of embarassing - would any of these dudes rep for "dj kicks: rockers hi-fi"? - but in this case it's just ... yuck.

"Victims themselves of a close encounter / Desperate abductors, constructors / Become an infected vex / By an alien virus"?

dude ... shut the fuck up.

renegade bear shot by cops on frat row (vahid), Sunday, 4 June 2006 18:17 (eighteen years ago) link

Yeah, the one and same. Yr right in that its just an 00s update on old skool dub poetry type stuff, but its not as outright rotten as you make out! ALTHOUGH: he could probably do with some more rhymes...

gekoppel (Gekoppel), Sunday, 4 June 2006 18:24 (eighteen years ago) link

i don't think it's necessarily rotten - i really like the rockers hi-fi dj kicks! though i never dug on their albums or singles much ... i can see how it might work ... maybe the problem is that he doesn't sound NEEDED on "dubstep allstars vol 3"

renegade bear shot by cops on frat row (vahid), Sunday, 4 June 2006 18:28 (eighteen years ago) link

Yeah, I can't even listen to vol. 3 because of spaceape; he ruins it.

gaseous (gaseous), Sunday, 4 June 2006 19:29 (eighteen years ago) link

Yer, I mean at Dubstep raves there is usually an mc presence (normally a less "poetic" more old skool master of ceremonies) but on the most mixes they aren't there....

gekoppel (Gekoppel), Sunday, 4 June 2006 19:34 (eighteen years ago) link


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