Take a Sad Song and Extract Every Last Ounce of Spontaneity from It: the Beatles Uber-Ballad Poll

everyone's playing is pretty uninspired (and john flubs a few notes, if that's him playing bass)

It is, and Ian MacDonald wrote that Lennon's playing (and passing off what is essentially a rehearsal/run-through as a finished track) amounted to "sabotage" of McCartney's song.

which makes me think that when people say that the iconic songs that remain for Lennon and Harrison are post-Beatles ("Imagine" and "My Sweet Lord" ?) whereas for Macca it's his Beatles songs that will be remembered("Yesterday", "Hey Jude" ?)

he's got nine #1s in America and countless top tens. If not, "Maybe I'm Amazed" or "Jet" will do in a pinch.

Well, that's the thing: Macca's post beatles career has been way more successful of the four, but.

but what?

but Maybe I'm Amazed isn't a quarter as well known as Yesterday or even The Long And Winding Road.

The argument is that Lennon and Harrison have iconic solo songs, but Paul McCartney, who has had more hits and airplay than those two combined, doesn't? OK.

Try singing a bit of "Silly Love Songs" or "Band on the Run" to anyone over fifty who grew up on AM radio.

UK perspective is probably different from the US one, not that Macca isn't the most successful ex-Beatle here either.

xp UK perspective here indeed, but I feel that while those are famous songs, they're not I dunno 'iconic' - they work fine among a tapestry of other songs by Bread, the Carpenters, Andrew Gold and all sorts of other power pop, but I couldn't name a solo McCartney song that people define the man by: it's always Yesterday or Let It Be really.

oh yeah he was a bigger solo presence in the United States.

LOL Mull of Kintyre!

I couldn't even tell you how Mull of Kintyre goes, and that was a HUGE hit. The McCartney hits I grew up with was 'No More Lonely Nights' and 'The Frogs Chorus', but we sang things like 'Imagine', 'Obla-Di', 'Yellow Submarine' and 'Yesterday' in school as if they were part of a songbook.

I don't think he plays Mull of Kintyre anymore, but maybe that's because it was co-written by Denny Laine... and is dreary crap into the bargain.

"Band on the Run" is probably the most US-centric iconic solo Paul, I've heard that one the most times in public places, grocery stores, etc.

Tried to find LAWR official video on youtube. It's not there. There used to be an official Beatles account featuring most of the videos but it seems to be gone now.

He bought Denny's share back off him.

Oh, and btw, "but." is shorthand for what DL and Alfred said, um.. (looks).. Alfred.

of course, "Mull of Kintyre" !
but it's still far from "Let it Be" in terms of popularity. I mean, "Let it Be" is like the one song that Macca will play at the end of any concert (his or someone else's !)

My sister thought 'Obla-Di' was rude, it *was* the way she sang it: "Oh, bloody.."

and it's the song that was covered by various charity supergroups !

of course, "Mull of Kintyre" !

Maybe...but not in the US:

"Mull of Kintyre" was not a pop hit at all in the US, but did manage to reach #45 on the Easy Listening chart.[11][12]

but Maybe I'm Amazed isn't a quarter as well known as Yesterday or even The Long And Winding Road.

― boat of boats (dog latin), Wednesday, June 17, 2015 1:59 PM (25 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

That may have something to do with the fact that The Beatles discography covers a finite period of time (1962-1970), so it's very easy to see all of that as being "one" body of work. It was the band that McCartney became famous as a member of, and the songs have been played to death over the years. Newcomers to Beatle music are naturally more inclined to check out The Beatles music before they delve into the solo careers.

Paul McCartney's post-Beatles stuff, by comparison, is still an ongoing thing - it's a large and very vast discography which at this stage takes a large amount of time to sift through from end to end. Sure, it's easy to say that Wings could be treated as "one" thing too, but I don't think a lot of people do. I think most people see Paul McCartney's post-Beatles catalogue as Paul McCartney music. McCartney himself doesn't do his own solo output any favours: he's had hit after hit after hit post-Beatles (you'd be surprised at how many) and yet there's a lot that he doesn't play in live performances. His interviews tend to feature more anecdotes about The Beatles rather than his solo career, and because he is always pumping out fresh material, if he gets radio play, the focus will be on his newer material. That's not to say that his older stuff doesn't get airplay - it does - but he always seems to have something new out, and he has a lot of material, so it's a little difficult for people to take stock of all that McCartney has done over the years.

John Lennon's solo career is easy to sum up, again because it covers a finite period of time, and because he didn't make all that many solo albums... he spent half of his post-Beatles decade as a house husband. All of his singles and choice highlights could easily fit onto one CD, making his solo years easy to digest. In terms of radio play, there's a very small pool of singles for radio to pick from his solo career - and since he's passed away, it's these choice cuts which have naturally got played to death on the airwaves. His small pool of singles has had far more exposure than McCartney's vast ocean of singles, since McCartney hasn't stopped putting 'em out.

As for George Harrison: 'My Sweet Lord' is of course the biggie, and some of the All Things Must Pass tracks have become classics to dedicated Beatle followers/music geeks, but aside from that? As much as I love tracks like 'Blow Away', they're not as embedded in the public consciousness as 'My Sweet Lord' is, not by a million miles. His other big hit, 'Got My Mind Set On You', he didn't even fucking write!

I dunno man. When I think of John Lennon, it's him in his white suit and his white piano singing Imagine and Jealous Guy. He had a lot of other famous songs too - Nobody Told Me, Woman, Watching the Wheels etc. I don't picture McCartney or any of his songs in quite the same way.

I mean, here's a list of killer and/or popular McCartney singles right here:

1. Another Day
2. Too Many People (B-side of 'Uncle Albert/Admiral Halsey')
3. The Back Seat Of My Car
4. My Love
5. Live and Let Die
6. Jet
7. Band On The Run
8. Listen To What The Man Said
9. Letting Go
10. Silly Love Songs
11. Let 'Em In (Yes, I mean Billy Paul covered it and also scored a hit with it)
12. Maybe I'm Amazed
13. Mull Of Kintyre
14. With A Little Luck
15. Old Siam, Sir
16. Getting Closer
17. Arrow Through Me
18. Coming Up
19. Temporary Secretary
20. Ebony and Ivory
21. Take It Away
22. Say Say Say
23. Pipes Of Peace
24. No More Lonely Nights
25. We All Stand Together (hated by many for some of the most ridiculous reasons - it's a song for children, for fucks sake - and it's not actually that bad a song with the frog chorus noises removed and is actually very well orchestrated)
26. Spies Like Us
27. Press
28. Only Love Remains
29. Once Upon A Long Ago
30. My Brave Face
31. This One
32. Figure Of Eight
33. Hope Of Deliverance
34. Young Boy
35. Beautiful Night
36. Fine Line
37. Dance Tonight
38. Ever Present Past
39. Sing The Changes
40. Save Us

and that's before you get to the hidden gems that are on the albums.

I don't think anybody here thinks or says Macca has less or worse solo hits than his fellow Beatles
It's just that none of them reach the iconic level of "Imagine" as THE song that symbolizes the singer... except "Let it be" (if we consider it a solo song, like Lennon did) !

That said, did "Imagine" already had this iconic aspect before Lennon died (certainly not the level it reached after of course) ?

* and maybe, like, 5 of those above songs are likely to be well-known by the average person, right? I only know about half of them and things like Back Seat of My Car is hardly an iconic hit.

I dunno man. When I think of John Lennon, it's him in his white suit and his white piano singing Imagine and Jealous Guy. He had a lot of other famous songs too - Nobody Told Me, Woman, Watching the Wheels etc. I don't picture McCartney or any of his songs in quite the same way.

― boat of boats (dog latin), Wednesday, June 17, 2015 3:04 PM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

It's telling that three of the songs you mentioned are either from Double Fantasy or Milk and Honey - those tracks ('Nobody Told Me', 'Woman', 'Watching The Wheels') were all released as singles after Lennon was murdered. 'Jealous Guy', although it was first released on the Imagine album in 1971, wasn't released as a single until 1985 (again, after Lennon's death) - 'Imagine' is a strange one, because it was released as a single in the US but not in the UK in 1971 (it was a US #3) - however, it did make it to #6 in the UK when it was re-released to promote the Shaved Fish compilation. It did eventually make it to #1 in the UK, but again after Lennon's death.

Conclusion: airplay of Lennon's songs from his brief solo career skyrocketed after he died, obviously helping people become very familiar with his solo material. Well, the ones they could play, anyway: for some reason I can't imagine (hohoho) 'Cold Turkey', 'Woman Is The ****** Of The World' or 'Mother' getting much airtime.

Or any of the solo stuff from before the Beatles broke up.

I do remember "Working Class Hero" getting played at the fade of the BBC's Lennon tribute that night.

"Mother" and "The Dream is over" also got a fair bit of play around that time.

Also, "Give Peace a Chance" has always been up there.

.. which was before the Beatles broke up..

That's interesting and fair enough, Turrican. I wonder what UK hits did Lennon have in his time then?

eleanor rigby is the worst beatles song in this category

and maybe, like, 5 of those above songs are likely to be well-known by the average person, right? I only know about half of them and things like Back Seat of My Car is hardly an iconic hit.

― boat of boats (dog latin), Wednesday, June 17, 2015 3:22 PM (14 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Well, I didn't include all the singles! But of the ones I listed there, yeah, I'd say that half of them would be comfortably well-known to the average person, maybe more... and no, 'Back Seat Of My Car' wasn't a big hit, but it's a fucking great single and I'm sure it'll become iconic after McCartney passes away and everyone says how they thought his solo stuff was great all this time.

"Press" should be higher

"Peace a Chance" was written to be a Beatles song, it's was even credited Lennon-McCartney when released.

UK/US perspectives... keep those in mind. US is kind of lunatic abt the Beatles in a way the UK has never been.

Was it? I thought Lennon gave Macca credit as a return for services rendered on "The Ballad of John and Yoko."

Was it? I thought Lennon gave Macca credit as a return for services rendered on "The Ballad of John and Yoko."

yup.

That's interesting and fair enough, Turrican. I wonder what UK hits did Lennon have in his time then?

― boat of boats (dog latin), Wednesday, June 17, 2015 3:40 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

UK hits:

Give Peace A Chance (UK #2)
Instant Karma (UK #5)
Power To The People (UK #7)
Happy Xmas (War Is Over) (UK #2)
Imagine - 1975 release (UK #6)
(Just Like) Starting Over (UK - Peaked at #8, fell to #21, then #1 after Lennon's death)

UK flops:

Cold Turkey (UK #14)
Mind Games (UK #26)
Whatever Gets You Thru The Night (UK #36 - but was a US #1!)
#9 Dream (UK #23)
Stand By Me (UK #30)

#14 is hardly a flop

as for TLAWR, it was written as a Ray Charles sog and it kinda works...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhVy3Tx07vA

"Press" should be higher

― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, June 17, 2015 3:44 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

It wasn't a ranked list, but if it was then yeah, it'd be up there. I know you've always had a soft spot for that track!

#14 is hardly a flop

― The Manner of Crawly (Tom D.), Wednesday, June 17, 2015 3:53 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

It is when you're a Beatle. In 1969. After releasing a solo single that made it to #2. Yeah, I'd say it was a flop.

a very hard spot!

xpost

I think it did pretty well to reach #14 tbh (xp)

yeah #14 for the king beatle in 69 is clearly a flop !

ha – didn't Lennon return his medal on the grounds that "Cold Turkey" was a chart flop?

Hehehehe yeah, that was one of the reasons given...

eheh he was such a dick sometimes.