Take a Sad Song and Extract Every Last Ounce of Spontaneity from It: the Beatles Uber-Ballad Poll

flashbacks of endless takes for "Maxwell's Silver Hammer."

I think it's a bit unfair to say that George got into songwriting for financial reasons. 'Don't Bother Me' was on the second Beatles album, which came out the same year as their first. Also, he'd written stuff prior to them getting a record deal.

that's what I'm saying -- Paul said it as if he wanted to impugn George's integrity.

he and John wrote for the art.

I don't doubt that George was jealous of John and Paul's incomes from publishing *but* he was also probably p resentful of their dismissal of his efforts to get some of his own

this is better:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LdGGgOTXUA

I don't doubt that George was jealous of John and Paul's incomes from publishing *but* he was also probably p resentful of their dismissal of his efforts to get some of his own

― Οὖτις, Thursday, June 18, 2015 9:48 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I suspect that's one of the reasons why he set up his own publishing company (Harrisongs) in 1968, rather than have his tracks published through Northern Songs.

plus, I think George and Ringo still got a cut out of MacLen, right? Lennon mentioned it in one of his last interviews; Paul didn't want to but couldn't say no, according to John.

wait what how would that have worked

their publishing is so convoluted

To be honest, I don't think there could have been any decision that they could have possibly made that could have kept The Beatles together. They could have kept recording/issuing double albums to please all three songwriters, but would George really have got more space on a double album than he did on The Beatles? They could have did what Queen did eventually and credit all songs to all four members of the band, but would Lennon or McCartney have gone for that? They could have said "look, we all have X amount of space on an album and it's up to the individual songwriter what they want to fill that space with", but strangely I don't think McCartney would have gone for that. I think he enjoyed filtering Lennon and Harrison's contributions as much as he enjoyed getting his own contributions right. A situation like that would have allowed 'Cold Turkey' to go on a Beatles record, and it's well known that McCartney didn't want it to be a Beatles track.

I think the situation with The Beatles pretty much was: "John wants to do John music, George wants to do George music, Paul wants to do Paul music but would rather do Paul music with The Beatles and put the John and George music through a Paul filter. Ringo is Ringo."

Yeah, think that nails it.

I think when Lennon complained of the rest of the band being "sidemen for Paul", he basically meant that the rest of the band were getting fed up of submitting songs for The Beatles and either being told they couldn't do them, or finding that their compositions were being put through some kind of McCartney processor in order to fit around McCartney's tracks, or, they were getting to do their songs but on McCartney's terms.

However, judging by the way their solo albums sound, it was that same McCartney filter that was enabling their songs to become hits by that point.

So in one way, you could say that McCartney was being a bastard and a control freak, but on the other hand you could say that he was helping them out in a way.

Of course. That's how we got Abbey Road.

Yup, and that's what's so great about Abbey Road and people don't realise it. It has all the mainstream appeal of a Wings album like Band On The Run, but a consistency to it that comes from all the songwriters being involved. But it's easy to see why John and George couldn't go on working like that, as tempting as it is to think about how 'Maybe I'm Amazed' would have sounded nestling alongside 'Instant Karma' and 'What Is Life', with the same production values as Abbey Road has.

John had a habit of getting excited about some idea, then when he's gone off it deciding it was Paul's idea in the first place.

But it's easy to see why John and George couldn't go on working like that, as tempting as it is to think about how 'Maybe I'm Amazed' would have sounded nestling alongside 'Instant Karma' and 'What Is Life', with the same production values as Abbey Road has.

Richard Linklater had the same thought.

There's been quite a few attempts at putting the solo tracks into a 'Beatles' subsequent album.

Not seen one that actually works though.

Paul wants to do Paul music but would rather do Paul music with The Beatles and put the John and George music through a Paul filter.

What is this filter apart from great bass parts and backing vocals.

Like he shouldn't have to apologize for wanting to play the others' songs.

I doubt Paul would be cool with putting his songs through the John or George filter (altho tbh they probably couldn't maintain the required interest in his shittier material)

Again, what do any of these filters involve apart from playing your instrument and singing?

being told exactly how to play your instrument and sing, presumably (which Paul quite clearly did)

You're talking about "I've Got a Feeling?"

I mean, the songwriter's decision about the lead guitar idea he didn't like for "Hey Jude" strikes me as the kind of thing that goes on in bands all the time.

I'm sure that's not the only instance but yeah that was the first one that sprang to mind

xp

His version of "All Things Must Pass" from that concert is awesome!

― timellison, Thursday, June 18, 2015 5:28 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Did he introduce it by saying, "Here's one we thought wasn't good enough for the Beatles to record" ?

And speaking of the Scorsese doc, Paul reveals that George came up with the main guitar figure in "And I Love Her." He even said of the figure, "THAT'S the song!" Apparently not enough to warrant a co-writing credit.

There's been quite a few attempts at putting the solo tracks into a 'Beatles' subsequent album.

Not seen one that actually works though.

― Mark G, Thursday, June 18, 2015 10:27 PM (46 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Indeed. The differences in production values, for one. The fact that John and George developed very distinct solo identities, for another.

Again, what do any of these filters involve apart from playing your instrument and singing?

― timellison, Thursday, June 18, 2015 10:38 PM (38 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Playing your instrument, singing, production, arrangement.

I mean, listen to their solo albums and it speaks for itself. I'd bet that Paul had a much bigger hand in the arrangements of John and George's tracks than they ever did on his.

Mmm, very speculative. There was also George Martin.

Will you guys please look at this?

https://www.facebook.com/georgeharrison/photos/a.215228111344.138122.20929721344/10152858923651345/?type=1&theater

George TOOK A PICTURE OF PAUL.

Did he introduce it by saying, "Here's one we thought wasn't good enough for the Beatles to record" ?

Err, ahh, ahh...is this documented? Never heard this one. They were playing it during Let It Be sessions, I know. "We" = John and Paul or who?

Oh yeah, and song selection too... Paul quick to dismiss 'Cold Turkey' and several Harrison songs, yet Lennon and Harrison fucking loathe 'Maxwell's Silver Hammer' and it still manages to get onto an album?

And speaking of the Scorsese doc, Paul reveals that George came up with the main guitar figure in "And I Love Her." He even said of the figure, "THAT'S the song!" Apparently not enough to warrant a co-writing credit.

― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat

It isn't. If so, Al Kooper would've had one on "Like a Rolling Stone."

I'm growing weary of fighting but which George songs quick to dismiss?

that's what a guitarist is supposed to do -- come up with riffs. To solve this problem, you can do what REM-U2 have done and credit everybody.

"Not Guilty?" It's a good thing the Beatles didn't release "All Things Must Pass" on Let It Be!

credit everybody.

Exactly.

Jagger/Richards are without a doubt more stingy at giving out credits than Lennon/McCartney ever were.

If George should have ben credited as a co-writer of "And I Love Her," then perhaps Ringo should be a co-writer of "The End."

If you're going to hold that credits should follow a distinctive or signature riff, but not normal or obvious or stock parts, it seems to me that this is a slippery slope and a potentially endless topic.

Did Steve Gadd cowrite "Fifty Ways to Leave Your Lover"? If yes, then every session person who ever played something awesome should be credited. If no, then to what extent has any drummer ever written anything?

Is Ringo a cowriter of the Beatles' recording of "Roll Over Beethoven"? I don't think anybody told him what fills to play at which points, so presumably he composed his own parts.

re: "Jagger/Richards are without a doubt more stingy at giving out credits than Lennon/McCartney ever were." Ask Richard Ashcroft!

Or Bill Wyman, or Mick Taylor...

Believe Anthony Jackson got a writing credit for his bass part on "For The Love Of Money," but that was a notable exception.

Guys, I have to commend you on finding new nuanced and interesting things to say about the Beatles at this late stage in yhe history of ILX.

Oh yeah, and tim much love to you too, never change.

Sorry, I do you like your contributions, and wish I knew the emoticon to use in this situation.

back at you brother!