Taking sides: John Lennon vs Paul McCartney

blues lyrics do tend to be repeatedly cut-and-pasted like that, obvi, but it's equally obvi that lennon's particular cut came directly from elvis.

yeah--elvis is definitely the most proximate source

but my point is that it's in a long, long time of arguably misogynistic lyrics to popular songs

man, this convo is so boring. maybe if a few more people were to call me a xenophobe...

(xp) but anyway, it's a throwaway as beatles songs go, but a rather catchy throwaway imo. i'm sure it says something about lennon that he chose that particular blues lyric to write a song around. not sure what exactly it says, though.

he's just jealous guy IIRC

That's something he has in common with McCartney, except McCartney is jealous of a dead guy.

lennons 50's covers are cornier than anything paul did ever.

i like that the fourth post on this thread started in 2003 is a set of links to three earlier threads on the subject

but none of them are named "beatle battle", so there's clearly room for at least one more

You're such a sad little piece of shit, amateurist. Oh, so you're trolling me because of my humourlessness. Yeah, that's why your post was about me spelling something wrong, what a hilariously lack of humour. How well do you write in your second language? What about your third or fourth? Are you too chickenshit to answer?

I'm still kinda new to this place, does shitting on people due to where they're born qualify for temp bans? Or would that only work with sexism, racism, anti-semitism, etc. Because I don't want to be reminded constantly on this site that I'm not a real English speaker a moment more than I have to. I get that enough on my pretty internationally oriented job. It's not fun for me, it's not something I like, it's not something that doesn't kinda hurt me financially in my everyday life. I don't get why I should have to laugh at it.

dude.

this thread has become

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJQx9-GXAic

silly stoner gobbledygook vs overly literal vitriol

i prefer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrXfK9Osmvs

"literal vitriol" would be a good name for a sparks album

Dubba dubba dubba cha (xp)

guys let's stop fighting and sing yellow submarine, you're all upsetting Ringo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nE3zJgO-0S4

live together in perfect harmony / Side by side on my pyahno keyboard

https://courtneyssoundworld.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/paul_mccartney_ram_john_lennon_imagine_pig.jpg

Paul and the ram look better imo

Amusing stuff from Lennon though

who are the "people," Frederick? Name them.

― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn)

People criticize McCartney for corniness on here all the time.

I mean like it hasn't happened in the last HOUR maybe, but "stoner gobbledygook" is probably in the ballpark.

I recall a certain dialogue about "The Long and Winding Road" of recent vintage...

shocking!

I just don't get why people rag on McCartney for his corny sentiments, <b>while ignoring Lennon's violent misogyni.</b> Judge the music, if the lyrics bother you, <b>but the hypocrisy is stupid.</b>

― Frederik B, Monday, July 6, 2015 4:03 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

These be the people needing to be identified, Tim. On a site where "Run For Your Life" is probably more discussed/condemnded than all the other songs on Rubber Soul combined....

(oops, some bad html coding there!)

also condemnded .... go home, Vic, you're dunk.

People criticize McCartney for corniness on here all the time.

― timellison, Monday, July 6, 2015

I meant people "ignoring Lennon's violent misogyni."

Fair enough you guys.

ok since no one can appear to call me out by name I'll just step up here.

Has Paul ever apologized for his corniness? Or his egotism?

For Lennon's part, two years after "Run For Your Life"'s casual Elvis quoting he directly called himself out for his misogynistic asshole tendencies on "Getting Better". Lennon gets points for being nakedly self-critical over the course of his career imo, Paul just gets... Paul-ier as he goes on.

but I like them both, they do different things, it's not an either/or thing. But John's dead, he's stopped saying stupid things. Paul still has some stupid things to get off his chest, apparently.

and tbh historically on this site I think Lennon gets bashed plenty for his misogyny, esp in comparison to some of his contemporaries (Mick springs to mind)

john's scathing answer to george's "miss o'dell"

The Esquire piece is up, by the way.

http://www.esquire.co.uk/culture/music/8511/paul-mccartney-interview/

Hey guys! Lots of responses since I last checked this thread... what have I missed!?

Oh.

*removes bookmark*

better run for your life if you can, james redd.

Should have put that last post in Italics, implying that Turrican was removing bookmark.

Anyway let me take out my box of refrigerator magnets of Beatles received wisdom and see if I can find any interesting way to arrange them.

I don't really care who was the leader of the Beatles or who did the "most," either during the time they were playing together or after they broke up. I don't even want to argue the musical merits of the four of them. Really there is just something maddening about Paul's public persona. It seems like there is some deficit of self-awareness on his part, lack of grace or wit in dealing with his Beatle past and the other three band members. John must have been an annoying jerk a lot of the time, but it seems like he was just as hard on himself as he was on everybody else, that there was something charming and likable about him, and that he partakes of an artistic persona that we know and love from Alex Chilton and Lou Reed, having whatever the Scouse equivalent of shpilkes is.

It seems that even if one were to try to mount a defense on Macca's behalf nothing would be good enough for him, because he wants to beat John at his own game -"I was avant-garde first!" etc, which is a fool's errand. He missed the class where you learn that the best way to get credit is to give credit.

I have some irl friends that hate Lennon for his misogyny. I don't know what they've read about him because I haven't heard much beyond "He's a piece of shit".

All of the Beatles probably did some horrible stuff when they were on top of the world in 1964 and no one will ever know. Lines of girls waiting outside their hotel rooms. Being in your early 20s and being a rich and famous international rock star, probably not the best time/place to foster healthy relationships of any kind.

At least he seems to have fought for Yoko Ono as a valuable musician in her own right, putting her on Beatles albums, releasing her/their concept art through their label, etc.

mccartney has spent 50 years as, more or less, the most famous person in the world

tbh i think he's done about as well as anyone could in such a situation. plus he wrote some good songs

The year before Lennon died John was on year 4 of being a stay at home dad. Which must have taken some amount of humility.

There were, how do you say, "other factors" at work there besides humility.

I have some irl friends that hate Lennon for his misogyny. I don't know what they've read about him because I haven't heard much beyond "He's a piece of shit".

Like, you know he had a wife before Yoko that he treated like absolute garbage their entire marriage, right?

We keep slipping between "Lennon was a misogynist in life" and "Lennon was a misogynist in song," which, OK, fine, but please be clear.

Still feel like there is something slightly lamentable about Macca's shtick which boils down to "I'm sorry my mum didn't pass away in as dramatic a fashion as John's and I can't wear my heart on my sleeve and beat my breast in an atavistic fashion, I am well aware that I come off as of the stiff upper lip Music Hall tradition but I am still an artist do u see, Mr. Apollo not Mr. Dionysus but why should that matter, can Mr. Dionysus do a Little Richard Oooh-wooh like I can? Never in the history of art! Shut up! The beauty is still on duty."

beatles only really had superpowers when they were together. black majik! john gave it a go for a bit. look where it got him!

And in the digital age, McCartney feels even more slighted by the fact that Lennon never had to read the comments.

hard to deny his ebullience during this final interview:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaTy3kSxyoo

Blowing my mind that Paul still has the same bass he's had since 1963. That's some good luck for a travelling musician!