Salsa is dead, reggaeton is dead: Long live the rolling Afro-Latin music thread 2009

"Dr. Phil" started this thread that never quite took off--
OK, I'LL start it: Rolling Banda/Duranguense/Narcocorrido/Flashy Matching Suits Regional Mexican Thread 2009

x-post re Grupo Niche... Haven't seen 'em but I think the current version keeps touring alot so I'm guessing they're still good

So nobody else cares about De Marcos' AfroCuban Allstars? Too retro and not pop or street enough or Buena Vista backlash or all of those reasons I guess.

From what you said about them, it didn't sound like you cared about them yourself. They aren't just retro. Their Step Forward or Steps Forward album, or whatever it was called, dipped into timba, and so it was not only BVSC boring but annoying because of the timba elements.

...is the current incarnation of grupo niche any good?

I think they could be worth seeing. Mind you, the one and only time I saw them was a few years back. I'm not sure if the lineup has changed significantly since then.

I finally got to hear all of Grupo Fantasma's Sonidos Gold, and it's definitely one of my favorite albums from 2008. I think they handle cumbia best, but their extended salsa track "Rumba y Guaguanco" is good as well. Their sound is heavy on surf guitar, afropop/funk/ska horns, and sometimes dubby production. They're kind of derivative, but things end up sounding fresh enough. I definitely recommend checking it out. It's not primarily salsa, and it might appeal more than a straight salsa album to people who prefer, boogaloo to salsa (not that it's boogaloo, but in a way it's in a similar spirit). But their Afro-Latin percussion sounds pretty hot to me. (There is a cameo appearance by Larry Harlow, though it's nothing too noteworthy.)

http://www.myspace.com/fantasmatics

Whoops, I missed your post-All Stars-concert post, curmudgeon.

Henry Knowles from New York City, the most famous Salsa DJ in the world will be the special guest DJ Friday at Divino Lounge 7345 Wisconsin Ave. Bethesda, MD.

Should I go to this?

he holds a seeminly popular after-work mondays in new york i've been meaning to go to but haven't checked out yet, might be ok

More on Grupo Fantasma: one thing they do more than I realized until I sat down and listened more closely is to switch up from one rhythm to another (most often, well twice at least, cumbia to salsa). The fact that I hadn't really registered how much they do this reflects how organically its done. Build tension: jump to a different rhythm. They also blend genres, like afrobeat and samba (which blend pretty easily). I'll have more to say when I get some technical issues resolved. (Notes at home but I've got a virus on my old flashdrive and probably on my PC, etc. etc.)

And as curmudgeon pointed out previously, they are favorites of Prince, who had them playing at his place in Las Vegas for an ongoing gig.

Re: Group Niche (not sure why I didn't say this before), I'm wondering if Osvaldo Román is still with the band. Since he has this solo album (with Diego Gale), which doesn't sound too promising judging by these clips:

http://www.descarga.com/cgi-bin/db/23510.10?sKFo6jRB;;446

probably not, everyone on the flyer looks really young

Another thing about Grupo Fantasma: although comparisons are frequently made to the Fania All Stars (probably because of the Larry Harlow connection), some of what they are doing seems to me to have way more in common with 70s Eddie Palmieri. The abrupt cut from the rumba intro. on Fantasma's "Rumba y Guaguanco" is kind of like things you will here on, say, Palmieri's Lucumi Macumba Voodoo. Also the reverb and effects and stuff seems more Palmieri-ish. At any rate, nothing here really reminds me of the Fania All Stars (though I admit there's a good chunk of their catalog I haven't heard).

More on Sonidos Gold:

01 – El Sabio Soy Yo. Funk intro. then moves into cumbia/reggae. “Surf guitar” or “detective movie music guitar” or whatever you want to call it.

02 – Levantate. (Cumbia/salsa) There’s a rich layering of sounds here, even some violin in the mix. Builds up mid-track and switch-up to son clave.

03 – Arroz Con Frijoles. (Samba/afrobeat into samba) 3:04 switches up to pure samba (or at least it sounds that way to me).

04 – Bacalao Con Pan. (Funk/salsa) I guess that’s funk guitar? Vocals go off kind of sonero-like. More of a clave feel comes in at about 2:00 minutes in, though it’s still got one foot in funk somehow.

05 – Rumba y Guaguanco. (Rumba/salsa) Is this really rumba per se or some sort of orisha song? I'm still not sure. Heavy reverb on the vocals. The clapping seems untraditional (too simple to be traditional Afro-Cuban rhythm?) but works nicely. Maybe salsa producers should take note on the successful dub-like production here as an alternative to certain purist notions of salsa dura production. This is really really hot by the middle. Some unhinged-in-a-good-way trombone. Quite a bit of trombone throughout the album actually.

06 – Rebotar. (Cumbia con clave) This melody reminds me faintly of the old (much-quoted in salsa and Latin jazz solos) bolero “Historia de Amor.” No idea if that’s intentional. Switch-up at 3:08, into something more clave-inflected. Long vintage (farfisa?) keyboard solo. & back to cumbia.

07 – Cumbia De Los Pajaritos. (Cumbia Instrumental) Solid cumbia beginning with lots of reverb-y guitar. Pretty dubby overall.

08 – Gimme Some. (Funk) Maybe most outright funk so far, though still bolstered by Latin percussion. Plays off Santana's "No One to Depend On" and, I think, "Evil Ways." A little obvious sub-James-Brown yelling, for fun. Lengthy saxophone solo.

09 – El Desconocido. (Cumbia) Killer cumbia beginning. Lots of electric guitar (with effects) in this one. This was the track I heard on the radio that really caught my attention. I like this at least as much as the tracks where they mix rhythms.

10 – Se Te Mira. (Salsa) Salsa type percussion. Then in with horns and clave. This really is some kind of salsa/funk mix I guess. Sneaky intro to “Soltero” at the end of “Se Te Mira.”

11 – Soltero. (Cumbia) Cumbia. Heavy on trombone.

12 – Perso Fra I Mesquites. (Instrumental somethingorother?) I’m not really sure what this rhythm is, but I feel I surely should know. But the sound is very South/western surf guitar ish. Squelchy guitar effects. I think the unexpected violin soloing saves it from descending to mere filler status. Not sure how to label the violin playing which seems “eastern” to me somehow but maybe not.

One of these days I'm gonna walk out on you people and start a (mediocre) blog.

Ha. RS, I like that Grupo Fantasma cd too, just haven't listened to it in awhile.

Anybody else check out all (11 I think) of those Panamanian reggaeton cuts over the Neyo "Miss Independent" sampled rhythm? Wayne links to 'em on the wayne and wax blog/website.

not sure which post you're referring to. also, did not realize the book is out!

Near the bottom of his April 3rd posting. They may be Panamanian dancehall reggae artists and not reggaeton.

Re the reggaeton book, while Wayne is certainly holding it in his hand in a photo, when I went to Amazon it said it was not available yet.

RS, I like that Grupo Fantasma cd too, just haven't listened to it in awhile.

Weird. Why haven't you made any comment about it (aside from mentioning that Prince likes it) in the time I've been bringing it up? Apparently for a lot of people it's just very average. I think it's above average.

I thought I did, but maybe not. Maybe cuz it's a 2008 cd, I thought I said something about them back then. I wrote a Washington City Paper preview item for 'em a little while back, and years ago when they had a slightly different membership I reviewed their free show at the Kennedy Center for the Washington Post. Back then I posted this on a thread:

Haikunym, interesting you should just mention cumbia and its relation to ska and polka as I just saw the Laredo, Texas formed,Austin-based mostly all Mexican-American Grupo Fantasma do a nice set of mostly all cumbia(although the singing was just ok). They told me afterwards that they're into old-school Colombian cumbia as well as cumbia they've heard in a few surviving dive bars across the borders which they say are attended largely by dancers and hookers.

Like Bio Ritmo, they've been trying in DC to reach a crossover Anglo audience, playing rock clubs like Black Cat rather than Latin clubs.

What do you think of the singing on Sonidos Gold? I think it's pretty solid. The rest of the music is strong enough to carry it, anyway. The vocals aren't exactly spectacular, but I like them.

I think because they do funk, cumbia, Santana style stuff, and salsa and have backed Prince, and do lots of gigs aimed at English-speakers, they get ignored or dismissed by some purists no matter how good they sound. Now I've never been crazy about their vocals, but they're better on Sonidos Gold then I remember them in the past. I think they're a good party band. Others may sincerely think they're just average.

I heard one song from the new Jimmy Bosch album last night,“Mujeres Manda,” featuring Johana Castaneda. I was not impressed with either the track overall or her vocals.

I also heard a cut from the new album by Choco Orta album, but I didn't even regonize it as such until it was announced. It didn't make much of an impression, but judging from the samples here, I might want to buy this anyway:

http://music.barnesandnoble.com/Ahora-Mismo/Choco-Orta/e/094922112156/?itm=1

(Otherwise, KUNM's salsa show (which isn't really just salsa, more like the range of what we (theoretically) discuss on this thread) often plays way too much timba for my taste and I often end up turning it off long before it ends.)

Well, Grupo Fantasma are somewhat peripheral to salsa per se, but on this album anyway they seem pretty solidly rooted in cumbia. I haven't heard any of their earlier albums. I do think the salsa tracks are good though. I think the end result of their mixing different styles of music is not the mish-mash some might expect.

Based on the stingy audio clips I've heard, I do think there are going to be at least a couple songs I like on the new Jimmy Bosch CD.

So at long last you're calling off your Jimmy Bosch fatwah?

I've always liked a song here and there by him. (Of course, the same is true for the Spanish Harlem Orchestra and Los Soneros del Barrio.) I think he's overrated, but I think pretty much every new "salsa dura" outfit out of NYC is overrated (if only in NYC salsa circles).

I've got a good feeling about this Choco Orta CD, based on these brief clips I'm hearing. I think it will be solid, maybe nothing exceptional, but solid, and since there are hardly any decent soneras around right now, that itself makes it exceptional. I think she hasn't gotten the opportunities she deserves.

Just checked out some Youtube videos of her. She's got a brassy voice, nothing sweet and ethereal about it. So even when she's singing a romantic ballad there's a powerful weight to her tone.

So I did not make it out to "greatest salsa dj in the world" Henry Knowles out in Bethesda, MD last night.

I am also gonna miss on Sunday the 19th "dance lessons from 4-5 pm followed by a Salsa Sabios presentation by Nancy Alonso of WPFW on the life and career of Puerto Rico’s most prolific salsa composer, Tite Curet Alonso from 5-6 pm. A CD with some of his greatest hits will be given to the first 20 people to participate in the Salsa Sabios session. You must rsvp to receive a CD. Open dancing is from 6-10 pm. ...at The Meeting Place Restaurant, 1707 L St. NW DC"

Some good stuff I've found poking around on emusic (esp. the first one):

Plena Libre- Evolucion
http://www.emusic.com/album/-Evolucion-MP3-Download/11261940.html

La India Canela - Merengue Típico from the Dominican Republic
http://www.emusic.com/album/La-India-Canela-Merengue-T%C3%ADpico-from-the-Dominican-Republic-MP3-Download/11182175.html

Various - Quisqueya en el Hudson: Dominican Music in New York
http://www.emusic.com/album/Various-Artists-Smithsonian-Folkways-Quisqueya-en-el-Hudson-Dominican-Music-in-New-Yor-MP3-Download/10887688.html

Joaquin Diaz - Merengue Alegre
http://www.emusic.com/album/Joaquin-Diaz-Merengue-Alegre-MP3-Download/10898317.html

Plena Libre are fun. I saw 'em at the Smithsonian Folklife Festival in DC once. Not sure I can explain what plena and bomba music is in relation to other Latin salsa/tropical styles, but I know I like it.

I saw Plena Libre once at the Painted Bride in Philadelphia and they put on a very lively show.

Plena and bomba are both specifically Puerto Rican. Bomba is pretty African-rooted and I think plena is has more of a Spanish influence, and maybe has more North Africa by way of Spain. Beyond that I start talking gibberish. Maybe I already have. Perhaps Nina can say more if I can coax her to visit this thread.

A little OT: I caught some flamenco performances (dance with live musicians playing) at Albuquerque's Founders Day this past Saturday. I'm not there yet, but I could see myself getting into it at some point. My mind was echoing with the vocal lines and rhythms as I walked home. I think seeing the music with the dance would make it easier for me to get a handle on it, although I still don't quite understand how the performances unfold. (There was also some Navajo dancing, some mariachi, and some New Mexican music, which is basically close to Mexican, to my ears.)

You're gradually becoming a local out there!

Speaking of live music, I missed Dominican sonero Raulin Rosendo this past weekend and naturally there were no reviews in the Washington Post or blogs. I read that he's supposed to be very charismatic live.

Gonna miss the battle of the 2 reggaetonish club shows on Thursday--Voltio at Terra Mare, and Pitbull at Ibiza. Mayvbe Fauxmarc will come back down from NY and see one of 'em.

I like the songs from Latin popster Ximena Sarinana that I've heard on myspace. She sounds like Julieta Venegas to me, but some are comparing her to both Fiona Apple and Nora Jones. She's at the 930 Club in DC tonight.

i'd check out voltio if it wasn't in arlington, and i can't really get behind pitbull lately... i wouldn't mind not hearing calle ocho ever again

anyone familiar with this board:

http://pulsemusic.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=latin

En Ingles

I was in Dublin and Belfast this past weekend, and it really weirded me out that there was as far as I could tell absolutely zero Latin cultural presence - I mean, there wasn't even a Taco Bell. It was a pretty massive culture shock for me after living in a Colombian-dominated town in NJ for so long.

In other news, I got the Fania "Masterworks" reissue of Eddie Palmieri's Vamonos Pa'l Monte in the mail yesterday, and it comes with four bonus tracks, three of which are previously unreleased studio jams, each one more than 10 minutes long ("VP Blues," the first of them, is 14 minutes long, with some crazy-ass organ soloing from Charlie Palmieri). If you don't already have this album in some version, this is the one to get.

too late, already own

there's gotta be something of at least a salsa scene going on in scotland somewhere, in miami picked up putumayos's "salsa around the world" from 2003 and there was a track by "salsa celtica" on it, in spanish, pretty lush

Yea, many Europeans love salsa, but its probably not obvious as there aren't many Hispanic immigrants from the Americas going there.

Fauxmarc, on another item, I guess they didn't want to compete with Pitbull at Ibiza, so the Voltio show at Terra Mare in Va has been moved to Thursday May 14th. Thursdays, alas, rarely work for me.

Billboard Latin Music Awards Thursday night April 23, in association with a seminar/conference thing they're holding in Florida.

Comment on their website:

ALOT OF THESE PEOPLE ARE FROM SPAIN WHICH EQUALS EUROPEAN WHICH EQUALS WHITE!! AND THE REST ARE WHITE HISPANICS WHO EVENTUALLY ALL COME FROM EUROPE WHICH EQUALS WHITE!! WHERE ARE THE BLACK AND INDIAN HISPANIC WHICH ARE THE MAJORITY OF THE SO CALLED LATIN AMERICAN WORLD WHY IS THE LATIN GRAMMYS FULL OF THESE RICH WHITE EURO SPANIARDS

La Mulata Rumbera has a new more comprehensive blog (and she didn't even tell me it was up yet):

http://arrozconbeans.com/

Thanks.

I forgot to watch those Billboard Awards on Telemundo the other night:

2009 Billboard Latin Music Awards Nominees & * Winners

HOT LATIN SONGS

Hot Latin Song Of The Year
* "Te Quiero" Flex
"No Me Doy Por Vencido" Luis Fonsi
"Donde Están Corazon" Enrique Iglesias
"Si No Te Hubieras Ido" Mana

Hot Latin Songs Artist Of The Year
* Enrique Iglesias
Flex
Vicente Fernandez
Juanes

Hot Latin Song Of The Year, Male
* "Te Quiero" Flex
"Para Siempre" Vicente Fernandez
"No Me Doy Por Vencido" Luis Fonsi
"Donde Están Corazon" Enrique Iglesias

Hot Latin Song Of The Year, Female
* "Dime" Ivy Queen
"Culpable O Inocente" Jenni Rivera
"Inolvidable" Jenni Rivera
"El Presente" Julieta Venegas

Hot Latin Song Of The Year, Duo Or Group
* "Si No Te Hubieras Ido" Mana
"Dame Tu Amor" Alacranes Musical
"Hasta El Dia De Hoy" Los Dareyes De La Sierra
"La Cumbia Del Rio" Los Pikadientes De Caborca

Hot Latin Song Of The Year, Debut
* "Te Quiero" Flex
"Hasta El Dia De Hoy" Los Dareyes De La Sierra
"La Cumbia Del Rio" Los Pikadientes De Caborca
"Amantes Escondidos" German Montero

TOP LATIN ALBUMS

Latin Album Of The Year
* "95/08" Enrique Iglesias
"Te Quiero" Flex
"Arde El Cielo" Mana
"Kings Of Bachata: Sold Out At Madison Square Garden" Aventura

Top Latin Albums Artist Of The Year
* Vicente Fernandez
Flex
Enrique Iglesias
Marco Antonio Solis

Top Latin Album Of The Year, Male
* "95/08" Enrique Iglesias
"Te Quiero" Flex
"Una Noche En Madrid: Marco Antonio Solis En Vivo" Marco Antonio Solis
"Talento De Barrio (Soundtrack)" Daddy Yankee

Top Latin Album Of The Year, Female
* "Jenni" Jenni Rivera"
"Real…En Vivo" Ednita Nazario
"Insatisfecha" Diana Reyes
"Julieta Venegas: MTV Unplugged" Julieta Venegas

Top Latin Album Of The Year, Duo Or Group
* "Kings Of Bachata: Sold Out At Madison Square Garden" Aventura
"Arde El Cielo" Mana
"Si Tu Te Vas" Los Temerarios
"Tu Inspiracion" Alacranes Musical

Top Latin Album Of The Year, Debut
* "Te Quiero" Flex
"Wisin Y Yandel Presentan La Mente Maestra" DJ Nesty
"Vamonos Pa'l Rio" La Pikadientes De Caborca
"Con Banda" Los Dareyes De La Sierra

LATIN POP

Latin Pop Airplay Song Of The Year, Male
* "Donde Estan Corazon" Enrique Iglesias
"Te Quiero" Flex
"No Me Doy Por Vencido" Luis Fonsi
"Gotas De Agua Dulce" Juanes

Latin Pop Airplay Song Of The Year, Female
* "Cinco Minutos" Gloria Trevi
"Donde Estara Mi Primavera" Myriam Hernandez
"El Presente" Julieta Venegas
"Ahora Entendi" Yuridia

Latin Pop Airplay Song Of The Year, Duo Or Group
* "Si No Te Hubieras Ido" Mana
"Cada Que…" Belanova
"No Te Quiero Nada" Ha*Ash
"Inolvidable" Reik

Latin Pop Album Of The Year, Solo
* "95/08" Enrique Iglesias
"5to Piso" Ricardo Arjona
"Palabras Del Silencio" Luis Fonsi
"Cómplices" Luis Miguel

Latin Pop Album Of The Year, Duo Or Group
* "Arde El Cielo" Mana
"Mejores Cantos Religiosos" Grupo Nueva Vida
"Planet Kumbia" AB Quintanilla Presenta Kumbia All Starz
"Hasta Ahora" Sin Bandera

TROPICAL

Tropical Airplay Song Of The Year, Male
* "Te Quiero" Flex
"Sin Perdon" Hector Acosta
"Donde Estan Esos Amigos" El Chaval De La Bachata
"Amor Desperdiciado" Frank Reyes

Tropical Airplay Song Of The Year, Female
* "Dime" Ivy Queen
"Pintame De Colores" Gloria Estefan
"Quiero Tenerte" Marala
"Cosas Del Amor" Olga Tanon Featuring Milly Quezada Or Jenni Rivera

Tropical Airplay Song Of The Year, Duo Or Group
* "El Perdedor" Aventura
"En Aquel Lugar" Adolescent's Orquesta
"Todo Lo Que Soy" Marcy Place Featuring Don Omar
"Ahora Es" Wisin & Yandel

Tropical Album Of The Year, Solo
* "Una Navidad Con Gilberto" Gilberto Santa Rosa
"Mitad/Mitad" Hector Acosta
"Historia De Un Sonero" Victor Manuelle
"Soy" Victor Manuelle

Tropical Album Of The Year, Duo Or Group
* "K.O.B.: Live" Aventura
"Buena Vista Social Club At Carnegie Hall" Buena Vista Social Club
"En Vivo Desde Bellas Artes" Monchy & Alexandra
"Chapter Dos" Xtreme

REGIONAL MEXICAN

Regional Mexican Airplay Song Of The Year, Male
* "Para Siempre" Vicente Fernandez
"La Derrota" Vicente Fernandez
"Amantes Escondidos" German Montero
"El Proximo Viernes" Espinoza Paz

Regional Mexican Airplay Song Of The Year, Female
* "Culpable O Inocente" Jenni Rivera
"Inolvidable" Jenni Rivera
"Me Muero" Diana Reyes
"Aire" Luz Rios Featuring Joan Sebastian

Regional Mexican Airplay Song Of The Year, Duo Or Group
* "Hasta El Dia De Hoy" Los Dareyes De La Sierra
"Dame Tu Amor" Alacranes Musical
"Y Que Quede Claro" La Arrolladora Banda El Limon
"La Cumbia Del Rio" Los Pikadientes De Caborca

Regional Mexican Album Of The Year, Solo Artist
* "Una Noche De Madrid: Marco Antonio Solis En Vivo" Marco Antonio Solis
"Primera Fila" Vicente Fernandez
"Jenni" Jenni Rivera
"No Molestar" Marco Antonio Solis

Regional Mexican Album Of The Year, Duo Or Group
* "Si Tu Te Vas" Los Temerarios
"Tu Inspiracion" Alacranes Musical
"Con Banda" Los Dareyes De La Sierra
"Vamonos Pa'l Rio" Los Pikadientes De Caborca

LATIN RHYTHM

Latin Rhythm Airplay Song Of The Year, Solo
* "Te Quiero" Flex
"Permitame" Tony Dize
"Dime" Ivy Queen
"Pose" Daddy Yankee

Latin Rhythm Airplay Song Of The Year, Duo Or Group
* "El Perdedor" Aventura
"Na Na Na" Angel & Khriz
"Ahora Es" Wisin & Yandel
"Siguelo" Wisin & Yandel

Latin Rhythm Album Of The Year, Solo
* "Te Quiero" Flex
"Wisin Y Yandel Presentan La Mente Maestra" DJ Nesty
"La Melodia De La Calle" Tony Dize
"Talento De Barrio (Soundtrack) Daddy Yankee

Latin Rhythm Album Of The Year, Duo Or Group
* "Wisin Vs. Yandel: Los Extraterrestres" Wisin & Yandel
"La Novela" Akwid
"Nuevas Metas" La Factoria
"The Royalty/La Realeza" RKM & Ken-Y

Ruben Blades y Los Seis del Solar on the Billboard awards

Aventura y Wisin y Yandel y Akon "It's All Up to You" on the Billboard 2009 awards