anyone saying that he had a problem with west indian immigrants in the uk at the time is just wrong.
CLAPTON HIMSELF was the one who said he had a problem with West Indian immigrants in the UK.
― Sara Sara Sara, Thursday, 22 May 2008 20:27 (sixteen years ago) link
Well, given that they're his friends, I would assume they're more tolerant of him than people who don't know him. I think that's true of everyone, though; you tend to be nicer to people you know.
My point was that bringing up criticism of the welfare system as a strawman example of What Racists Do seems really odd, particularly since it has nothing to do with the thread or the counter-example you were constructing.
― HI DERE, Thursday, 22 May 2008 20:29 (sixteen years ago) link
That's worded poorly, I don't mean you were saying racists hate welfare, I meant you were saying that people assume that people who hate welfare are racists, and there's a gigantic implicit assumption in there that needs to happen in order for that to make sense.
― HI DERE, Thursday, 22 May 2008 20:30 (sixteen years ago) link
huh welfare hating has been coded racism since st least reagan - obv not across the board - but still a fine example
― jhøshea, Thursday, 22 May 2008 20:33 (sixteen years ago) link
I can't tell which responses are serious, but would kinda like to note that despite the names and the western habit of considering all non-white people west of Thailand to be the same color, India and the West Indies are really, really far away from each other.
― nabisco, Thursday, 22 May 2008 20:35 (sixteen years ago) link
yes but their names are v similar dont u see
― jhøshea, Thursday, 22 May 2008 20:37 (sixteen years ago) link
Enoch Powell and Clapton both referred specifically to "black" immigrants, Powell at least was educated enough to know exactly what he meant, but it's hard to read Clapton as referring to anybody other than West Indian immigrants either.
― Noodle Vague, Thursday, 22 May 2008 20:39 (sixteen years ago) link
xpost OK, well, I can't think of a better example without making a ridiculous leap, like, say you're Ziggy Marley's touring keyboard player and you spend the whole tour reading David Duke's book or something.
My only point is that it's totally possible to 'have black friends' and not necessarily do / say / believe things that are constantly advancing the causes of black people.
This is what happens whe you try to write serious, clear posts on ILM while listening to Half Japenmese really, really loud
― If Assholes Could Fly This Place Would Be An Airport, Thursday, 22 May 2008 20:39 (sixteen years ago) link
u didnt tell us u were half japanese - this changes everything
― jhøshea, Thursday, 22 May 2008 20:41 (sixteen years ago) link
Surely there's a difference between "to the right of Che Guevara" and "behind Enoch Powell"??
xposts
― Sundar, Thursday, 22 May 2008 20:42 (sixteen years ago) link
I'm not saying the guy shouldn't take some hits for these comments, but you guys are putting a little too much in when you take a musician's ideas as anything approaching cogent, reasoned thought on something as difficult as British immigration policy.
― B.L.A.M., Thursday, 22 May 2008 20:43 (sixteen years ago) link
OTM
― If Assholes Could Fly This Place Would Be An Airport, Thursday, 22 May 2008 20:44 (sixteen years ago) link
It's also possible to have black friends and say / do / believe things that actively impede the causes of black people. This doesn't make you a particularly good friend.
― HI DERE, Thursday, 22 May 2008 20:44 (sixteen years ago) link
i hate ziggy marley's touring keyboardist, i don't care if that makes me racist
― M@tt He1ges0n, Thursday, 22 May 2008 20:44 (sixteen years ago) link
I don't think anybody's doing that, they're mostly saying "look, over the years Eric Clapton has repeatedly championed the views of a notoriously racist politician" and then drawing their own conclusions from that.
― Noodle Vague, Thursday, 22 May 2008 20:46 (sixteen years ago) link
ziggy marleys half japanese touring keyboardist here w/a book recommendation 4 u
― jhøshea, Thursday, 22 May 2008 20:46 (sixteen years ago) link
OK, I see your point there HI DERE. I guess the argument could be made that Clapton is kinda being two faced here.
I was merely defending the right of anyone who may live in a cushy gated community and / or has a voting record similar to Archie Bunker to claim they have black friends and not have it result in a liberal laugh riot, but I guess that's probably for another thread and another time
― If Assholes Could Fly This Place Would Be An Airport, Thursday, 22 May 2008 20:50 (sixteen years ago) link
i just voted for africa on the toto song poll so i'm not a racist anymore
― M@tt He1ges0n, Thursday, 22 May 2008 20:55 (sixteen years ago) link
Today is the first day of the rest of your life, Matt. A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step. A chain is only as strong as it's weakest link. Oh wait...
― If Assholes Could Fly This Place Would Be An Airport, Thursday, 22 May 2008 20:57 (sixteen years ago) link
just to be clear airports the liberal laugh riot comes from the obv fact that having black friends in no way precludes one from being a racist and to display proof of black friends in defense against racism charges absurdly illustrates ones lack of understanding of racism altogether thereby fanning racism suspicions
― jhøshea, Thursday, 22 May 2008 20:59 (sixteen years ago) link
my wife's family is friends with an australian family who are very nice and friendly folks but the dad is racist as fuck. he always talks about enoch powell. so i guess i would be suspicious of clapton on those grounds.
― M@tt He1ges0n, Thursday, 22 May 2008 21:01 (sixteen years ago) link
this guy is pretty hilarious looking
http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/11_01/powellL0411_468x825.jpghttp://www.martinfrost.ws/htmlfiles/enoch_powell.jpghttp://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/4/4c/Enoch_Powell.GIF
― jhøshea, Thursday, 22 May 2008 21:04 (sixteen years ago) link
if trolls could fly ...
― deej, Thursday, 22 May 2008 21:05 (sixteen years ago) link
good job of hiding the strings holding up his smile
― Granny Dainger, Thursday, 22 May 2008 21:08 (sixteen years ago) link
having black friends in no way precludes one from being a racist
I agree with this
to display proof of black friends in defense against racism charges absurdly illustrates ones lack of understanding of racism altogether thereby fanning racism suspicions
but not neccessarily with this. How does it 'absurdly illustate' anything if it's true? I mean, unless you're leading a double life, I don't think this is an altogether 'ridiculous' defense against racism, especially if the person accusing you of racism has never even met a non white person themselves. Kinda hard to be a seething, frothing racist loonie if your best buddies on your bowling team are all black, no?
― If Assholes Could Fly This Place Would Be An Airport, Thursday, 22 May 2008 21:09 (sixteen years ago) link
Is that really what Enoch Powell looks like?
― If Assholes Could Fly This Place Would Be An Airport, Thursday, 22 May 2008 21:10 (sixteen years ago) link
Not all racists are seething, frothing loonies, is the point being made here.
― HI DERE, Thursday, 22 May 2008 21:10 (sixteen years ago) link
Powell was castigated as an extremist by senior figures in the Conservative Party. This is the same party that less than 5 years earlier had fought a by-election with the slogan "If You Want a Nigger for Your Neighbour, Vote Labour".
― Noodle Vague, Thursday, 22 May 2008 21:11 (sixteen years ago) link
^shut the fuck up!! is that true? woah x 1000000
― M@tt He1ges0n, Thursday, 22 May 2008 21:12 (sixteen years ago) link
if having black friends in no way precludes one from being a racist then having black friends is a fallacious defense against racism charges
see
― jhøshea, Thursday, 22 May 2008 21:13 (sixteen years ago) link
Smethwick By-Election, 1964
xp
― Dom Passantino, Thursday, 22 May 2008 21:14 (sixteen years ago) link
1+1 may equal two, but whats wrong with saying it equals three?
― deej, Thursday, 22 May 2008 21:17 (sixteen years ago) link
rivers of blood http://youtube.com/watch?v=zMTndhA21O0
pretty interesting - never heard of this guy before
― jhøshea, Thursday, 22 May 2008 21:31 (sixteen years ago) link
So, wait...
It seems to me that the reason the "But I have black friends!" defense works in some peoples' minds is that they can point and say "I hate those people, and they happen to be black. I don't hate them BECAUSE they're black, per Exhibit 1 - My Black Friends." This makes some sense to me.
Now, this is entirely different to me than a person who tries to defend themselves as not racist, despite undeniably racist behavior, by pointing to people who they regard as their friends who are black.
― B.L.A.M., Thursday, 22 May 2008 21:39 (sixteen years ago) link
-- jhøshea, Thursday, 22 May 2008 22:31 (10 minutes ago) Bookmark Link
64% of British people don't believe that Powell, specifically the Rivers of Blood speech, was racist.
― Dom Passantino, Thursday, 22 May 2008 21:42 (sixteen years ago) link
And also - what is black, anyway? Chuck D.? Morgan Freeman? Janet Jackson? Mahalia Jackson? Kofe Annan? Joe Morgan? Toni Morrison? Mariah Carey? Tyler Perry? Peter Tosh? Pele? Kimbo Slice?
― B.L.A.M., Thursday, 22 May 2008 21:42 (sixteen years ago) link
what are you going on about
― The Brainwasher, Thursday, 22 May 2008 21:43 (sixteen years ago) link
Victor Wooten? Paul Robeson?
― B.L.A.M., Thursday, 22 May 2008 21:44 (sixteen years ago) link
I'm just being stupid. My bad.
-- B.L.A.M., Thursday, 22 May 2008 22:42 (1 minute ago) Bookmark Link
Poll.
― Dom Passantino, Thursday, 22 May 2008 21:44 (sixteen years ago) link
keep in mind, powell was a pre-eminent classical scholar, and wrote books about roman history and latin in his adult life. therefore, he can't be racist or foolish.
― Frogman Henry, Thursday, 22 May 2008 21:47 (sixteen years ago) link
ha many xposts
i know this so i point at q-tip and he says...
― PappaWheelie V, Thursday, 22 May 2008 21:47 (sixteen years ago) link
ha many xposts must get dissed?
lol
― jhøshea, Thursday, 22 May 2008 21:48 (sixteen years ago) link
Powell was a graduate of SOAS! That shit always surprises me.
― Dom Passantino, Thursday, 22 May 2008 21:49 (sixteen years ago) link
you guys are all ingorant when god makes a cd than you would not even feel his gory
― Niblick Painting Escarole, Thursday, 22 May 2008 21:49 (sixteen years ago) link
spark it up dom srsly
― deeznuts, Thursday, 22 May 2008 21:50 (sixteen years ago) link
I am not the best speller sorry I am not like god shining on his licks
― Niblick Painting Escarole, Thursday, 22 May 2008 21:50 (sixteen years ago) link
Powell was a graduate of SOAS! That shit always surprises me
Powell and a lot of his acolytes liked to pull that "racialist not racist" sleight-of-hand tho don't they.
― Noodle Vague, Thursday, 22 May 2008 21:52 (sixteen years ago) link