i think this was the thread where i did the math and realized that sabotage is my favorite sabbath.
ususally.
― now is the time to winterize your manscape (will), Monday, 6 April 2009 20:22 (fifteen years ago) link
all the mags I read had Vol IV as the album. Don't know how it's viewed now.xp
― pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Monday, 6 April 2009 20:23 (fifteen years ago) link
I made a quantitative argument on some sabbath thread that sabotage >>>> vol 4
― 鬼の手 (Edward III), Monday, 6 April 2009 20:25 (fifteen years ago) link
my mate would agree
― pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Monday, 6 April 2009 20:30 (fifteen years ago) link
Maybe someone should do a best sabbath album that wasn't ozzy or dio
― pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Monday, 6 April 2009 20:38 (fifteen years ago) link
Born Again would smoke that poll
― Bill Magill, Monday, 6 April 2009 21:01 (fifteen years ago) link
oh, here's my vol 4 vs. sabotage breakdown from Black Sabbath - "Symptom Of the Universe"
weird, I was listening to sabotage non-stop over the holidays and decided my favorite sabbath albums are paranoid, master of reality, and sabotage.
this poll had me listening to vol 4 again like mad, but after all these years I still don't get the love for that album. you wanna talk about inconsistency?
"wheels of confusion" - yawn"tomorrow's dream" - ok"changes" - awesome mellotron but if you're a third of the way through yr sabbath album and the best song so far is a ballad there is a problem"fx" - oh wait you are right this album rocks!"supernaut" - don't get it. not a bad a song, definitely a good one. but I'm clearly not feeling it the way others are."snowblind" - now this is a great song!"cornucopia" - another great song!"laguna sunrise" - love the iommi mellow instrumentals. this isn't better than "orchid" but it's pretty damn good. wow, maybe this album is turning around!"st vitus dance" - nope. note to sabbath: you are not the allman bros."under the sun" - can't even remember what this one sounds like. I think it's good + doomy? I'm too wracked with disappointment to pay attention.
compare with sabotage:"hole in the sky" - great song, and love the way they start with the noise of fiddling and getting ready to start, it's like this is a BAND"don't start (too late)" - it's filler but it's so short who cares"symptom of the universe" - omfg OMFG"megalomania" - okay at this point I've got almost 20 minutes of riff perfection, why you no like this album?"the thrill of it all" - a good-not-great song, but that's all I need to keep my high going at this point"supertzar" - kind of dopey but kind of cool in that wtf-is-sabbath-doing-now way"am I going insane?" - underrated song, also like how they bury the pop tune in the back of the album"the writ" - the only problem with this song is that it can't support an 8 minute runtime, gets draggy but starts out great especially if it's cranked
― Edward III, Monday, January 19, 2009 12:28 PM (2 months ago) Bookmark
― 鬼の手 (Edward III), Monday, 6 April 2009 21:04 (fifteen years ago) link
Best Non Ozzy/Dio Black Sabbath Studio Album
― pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Monday, 6 April 2009 21:07 (fifteen years ago) link
Good try, but you stumble out of the gates on the Volume 4 rundown. Wheels of Confusion is an absolute monster. Plus the Supernaut thing kills me.
― Bill Magill, Monday, 6 April 2009 21:08 (fifteen years ago) link
and how can you not love Tomorrow's Dream?
― pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Monday, 6 April 2009 21:21 (fifteen years ago) link
^yeah, I actually had a hard time wrapping my mind around this myself.
― jagged-electronically mäandernden underbody (Drugs A. Money), Monday, 6 April 2009 22:35 (fifteen years ago) link
as far as IV being the best, I totally agree...challops?
IV > Paranoid: this is kind of hard to justify, except the fact that Paranoid was the first Sabbath album I ever bought, and I liked it, but I was already v. familiar with half the songs, and the other half didn't really jump out at me, giving me a first impression of the album as suffocating and monochromatic...I mean, there's songs on it I love...Planet Caravan, Fairies Wear Boots, Paranoid, War Pigs, and even the songs that didn't really stick with me are hard to argue against, like the opening to Electric Funeral, but put it all together, and...I don't know, just seems a bit too monolithic to me I guess...
IV > Master of Reality: A bit easier, there's like four songs on this album, and only Children of the Grave (the best thing Sabbath ever did) shits on the stuff on IV from anything resembling a great height...I mean the album gets a little closer once I realized that After Forever was the earlier superior original article, and St. Vitus Dance was the rewrite, but still...I'm not exactly sure which three songs are stronger: Sweet Leaf/Children/Into the Void or Supernaut/Snowblind/Cornucopia, but it doesn't matter; without these IV is still within striking distance of a sprwaling druggy masterpiece...
― jagged-electronically mäandernden underbody (Drugs A. Money), Monday, 6 April 2009 22:50 (fifteen years ago) link
these = its three songs
― jagged-electronically mäandernden underbody (Drugs A. Money), Monday, 6 April 2009 22:51 (fifteen years ago) link
I find it strange that vol IV isnt the canon album for you guys.
― pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Monday, 6 April 2009 23:38 (fifteen years ago) link
worth running this poll again?
― pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Tuesday, 7 April 2009 13:03 (fifteen years ago) link
"I find it strange that vol IV isnt the canon album for you guys."
I don't understand this at all. It's a great album, and for me has Sabbath's best song, but if you're looking at the so called "canon", at least in the US, it's undoubtedly Paranoid. I've obviously gone on ad nauseum about how I think Master of Reality is the best. Incidentally, the guys in Sabbath themselves would vote for SBS for what it's worth.
― Bill Magill, Tuesday, 7 April 2009 13:24 (fifteen years ago) link
Me, I usually rely on RYM to give me some kind of indicator of an album's canonical status:
http://rateyourmusic.com/artist/black_sabbath
Paranoid leads the way in ratings, reviews and overall score. Not that that's anywhere near definitive, of course.
― Myonga Vön Bontee, Tuesday, 7 April 2009 15:15 (fifteen years ago) link
http://www.foreverdoomed.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=9621 what DFFD votes
― pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Tuesday, 7 April 2009 18:53 (fifteen years ago) link
I've just picked up Sabotage after years of meaning to buy it, but being put off by the cover and an unsubstantiated notion that it is a sub-par Sabbath album. And it's great. The only poor song is Supertzar.
Now I need to persuade myself to get Heaven and Hell..
― Duke, Monday, 16 November 2009 18:00 (fourteen years ago) link
how dare you? supertzar's amazing, and the best song on that album...
― m the g, Monday, 16 November 2009 18:21 (fourteen years ago) link
Heaven and Hell is awesome! Might as well go ahead and pick up The Mob Rules too. I can't believe how much I've fallen for that Dio area, great stuff.
― & other try hard shitfests (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Monday, 16 November 2009 18:23 (fourteen years ago) link
mob rules is fuckin RUTHLESS
― mr. que, covering up the vital parts, lest he embarrass the ladi (M@tt He1ges0n), Monday, 16 November 2009 18:24 (fourteen years ago) link
"...and an unsubstantiated notion that it is a sub-par Sabbath album."
I've never been aware of this "notion".
Yeah, Mob Rules fucking kills, you gotta get that.
― Bill Magill, Monday, 16 November 2009 18:41 (fourteen years ago) link
i know loads of people who say Sabotage is their fave album.
― pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Monday, 16 November 2009 19:47 (fourteen years ago) link
I've never been aware of this "notion"
That's because it was my own notion. And, as I say, unsubstantiated. I dunno, maybe it's the cover alone, maybe it's my poor memory of listening to this album at friends' places as a kid -- I just got it into my head that Sabotage was a bit of a clanger. Wrong I was.
Thanks for the Mob Rules recommendation. Will give it a listen.
― Duke, Monday, 16 November 2009 19:49 (fourteen years ago) link
I'll admit the cover of Sabotage is hilariously bad. A bone-headed idea ruined by terrible execution.
― Bill Magill, Monday, 16 November 2009 21:17 (fourteen years ago) link
yeah, it's the worst from a series of truly bizarre covers.
I will get behind any of the ozzy/dio era studio albums, personally. was recently blown away by how much I liked never say die, for example.
― original bgm, Monday, 16 November 2009 21:21 (fourteen years ago) link
My eyes are always drawn to Bill Ward's red tights.
― Duke, Monday, 16 November 2009 21:26 (fourteen years ago) link
def a bold fashion choice
― original bgm, Monday, 16 November 2009 21:37 (fourteen years ago) link
Ozzy's kimono was also a fine example of "out of the box" thinking. And Geezer looks like he just time-traveled in from a 1982 Eddie Money video shoot.
― Bill Magill, Monday, 16 November 2009 21:59 (fourteen years ago) link
is there a thread for the remasters? the bonus discs are pretty dope
― luol deng (am0n), Monday, 16 November 2009 22:07 (fourteen years ago) link
Bill what do you think the worst Sabbath album is
serious question
― Valid point, imaginary rude person (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 16 November 2009 22:14 (fourteen years ago) link
Seventh Star or Forbidden. Tyr's pretty bad too.
― Bill Magill, Monday, 16 November 2009 22:21 (fourteen years ago) link
How about you?
― Bill Magill, Monday, 16 November 2009 22:22 (fourteen years ago) link
Just listening to Vol4. Someone above bemoaned the lack of love for Wheels Of Confusion. I *adore* the beginning of the track, and I love its different parts, but to me all of these parts don't quite work as an ensemble: the song as a whole sounds poorly tacked together (to put it perhaps a little brutally). At one point I even think (probably wrongly) that the timing is off ("lost in the wheels of confusion"). The transitions between the different riffs somehow jar a little.
― Duke, Monday, 16 November 2009 22:38 (fourteen years ago) link
dunno I haven't heard 'em all! I haven't heard the stuff between Sabbath Bloody Sabbath and the Dio albums. I do dig Heaven and Hell and Mob Rules
― Valid point, imaginary rude person (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 16 November 2009 22:46 (fourteen years ago) link
"what do you think the worst Sabbath album is"
It's definitely Forbidden. But really there are no good ones that don't have Ozzy, Dio, or Ian Gillain singing. And the absurd awfulness of the others is never to do with the singer. It's just universally bad songwriting and production. The singers are all fine.
― Nate Carson, Tuesday, 17 November 2009 03:34 (fourteen years ago) link
the new album is so good
― Stormy Davis, Tuesday, 17 November 2009 03:46 (fourteen years ago) link
so is this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUkwv5yZyhA
Yeah I am really into the new record. Favorite track at the moment is still Follow the Tears. I will assuredly spin that at my Dj gig tonight. The 3-sided LP is gorgeous.
― Nate Carson, Tuesday, 17 November 2009 04:27 (fourteen years ago) link
god, "Follow the Tears" is such a monster track ... really dig the bridge part, where Dio goes into "We'll be there for you / I believed and I can tell you it's not true" ... it sounds floaty and psychedelic dropped into the middle of this amazing doom track
― Stormy Davis, Tuesday, 17 November 2009 04:35 (fourteen years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJ7EBF6IQn4
― Stormy Davis, Tuesday, 17 November 2009 04:36 (fourteen years ago) link
"Atom and Evil" and "Bible Black" are so good too
― Stormy Davis, Tuesday, 17 November 2009 04:38 (fourteen years ago) link
sabbath bloody sabbath title track 3:20--4:50 best 90 seconds of metal ever recorded
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Tuesday, 17 November 2009 06:29 (fourteen years ago) link
" I haven't heard the stuff between Sabbath Bloody Sabbath and the Dio albums. "
Forget what you have heard and listen to this stuff because it's great.
Too bad you feel that way about Wheels of Confusion, Duke, that's one of their best songs ever. Sounds like the fucking apocolypse on that "Lost in the Wheeels...." part.
― Bill Magill, Tuesday, 17 November 2009 14:17 (fourteen years ago) link
ou-ou-ou-ou, not enuff sabotage luv-uv-uv-uv in them poll results i don't think.
― t**t, Tuesday, 17 November 2009 15:13 (fourteen years ago) link
I haven't heard the stuff between Sabbath Bloody Sabbath and the Dio albums.
that includes sabotage! rectify! rectify!
― 鬼の手 (Edward III), Tuesday, 17 November 2009 15:21 (fourteen years ago) link
Sabotage is placed about right in that poll.
― Bill Magill, Tuesday, 17 November 2009 15:36 (fourteen years ago) link
Sabotage's about three places lower than it should be, I'd say.
And so's Bloody Sabbath.
― t**t, Tuesday, 17 November 2009 18:29 (fourteen years ago) link
My personal poll of Ozzy era albums:
1) Master of Reality2) Vol. 43) Sabbath Bloody Sabbath4) Never Say Die (yes, really)5) Sabotage6) Black Sabbath7) Paranoid (Yes, really)8) Technical Ecstasy
feel free to print that out and toss darts at it.
― Bill Magill, Tuesday, 17 November 2009 18:36 (fourteen years ago) link