New Christgau Consumer Guide From MSN Music

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you should send a copy of that to the webmaster at his website (who i think is tom hull?). they're trying to put together a bibliography.

I do this for money as well as love. So just in case this is the last Expert Witness not just at Noisey, which I'm sad to announce it is, but anywhere, it sticks to albums I'm way late on and albums I wanted to be sure to weigh in on. Enjoy. Consume, even. https://t.co/G12GQcSKav

— Robert Christgau (@rxgau) June 28, 2019

Possibly he and I retire the same day--we can join a bridge club. (He'll be back, I'm sure...this thread is 12 years old.)

new subscription-only newsletter:

://robertchristgau.substack.com/

did that link not work? it's here:

https://robertchristgau.substack.com/

Not sure where to post this, but this podcast with Christgau and his wife, fellow critic Carola Dibbell, talking about the new and revised Rolling Stone 500 Greatest Albums of all time poll is a fun listen:

https://robertchristgau.substack.com/p/auriculum-ep-5-bob-and-carola-and

That was a good listen (and I don't think I've ever heard Carola with Bob on any type of podcast/interview before, so that was especially nice). He does make a good case built of logical contradictions - i.e. don't believe in "canons," but personal canons make quite a bit of sense, and the difference between taste and judgment (and knowing how to balance those as a critic).

And that DeBarge album is good...but I would say Christgau's overrating it. I've listened to it several times in a row, and there's a long list of of '80s R&B albums that do a lot more for me.

Excellent call on The Rolling Stones Now!, I'm Still in Love with You, With the Beatles (not the album mentioned, but it's got the track he gushed over) and Wild Honey, all great albums typically overlooked - understandably but not deservingly so.

With Chuck Berry, I would've cheated on gone with The Chess Box. It's like 85% great, but that's still an amazing percentage for a three-CD box set, and most of that 15% is on the last disc.

if the debarge record is in a special way, xgau is not overrating it

Joe Levy? And Sandy Smallens? Taking me back, way back.

You go, Carola, for choosing Here, My Dear.

Looking forward to a listen, though I wish I could download (can I?).

Btw, just glancing at his best of the last decade list essay, I've got to admit, I'm pretty impressed *and* perplexed that so many decades down the line he still puts the New York Dolls on par with, say, Thelonious Monk as far as his personal favorites go. Like, even if you like the Dolls a lot, that's just two records (I suppose three, if you include the "reunion," which Xgau also gives an A+), and if it was between those first two and, say, the first four from the Ramones, I'm still surprised anyone would pick the two Dolls, even if they loved them.

idk I have certain albums that have travelled list to list for 25 years (The Hissing of Summer Lawns, Technique, Hearsay.

For sure. I've had albums that have stayed favorites since I was 13! I guess I've just never quite understood the Dolls as much more than a concept, let alone as a band anyone would say is vying to be their absolute favorite. Those albums are good, I just don't think they're *that* good. Maybe you had to be there.

what does Christgau mean about metal's connection to European notions of grandeur?

Europe bad iirc.

Wagnerian?

Oh so like German Romantic?

If we're going to play the faux profound generalization game, he could also talk about metal's connection to American anti-intellectualism.

I think the "New Yorkness" of the Dolls has a lot of resonance of Xgau that many wouldn't share. His feature on their comeback album is the final piece in his collection Is It Still Good To Ya?, he seems to see David Johansen as an avatar of eternal vitality.

"Yurrupean" = pretentious and racially prejudiced, see his ABBA review: "I'm sure their disinclination to sing like Negroes reassures the Europopuli". However, "musically, all Americans are part African".

The Dean of 'Murican Rock Critics indeed.

I didn't listen to the podcast but the idea that metal is "classical music for dummies" (iirc his words, from a Fucking Champs review) (and thus not real rock n roll) is a recurring one in his writing.

Disdain for classical music also a recurring theme.

he could also talk about metal's connection to American anti-intellectualism.

And this is connected ime (he isn't Lester Bangs; he has no love for anti-intellectualism) - the fact that the American lumpenproletariat went for prog and metal, with all its dated fantastical tropes and bombast, as opposed to literate songwriters or pomo ironists or whatever, didn't redeem it, I don't think. (Rush made a killing on the zonked-teen circuit, Ian Anderson was the small-town free-thinker lost in the big city, etc.)

Could it be that he's ultimately a bit of an American exceptionalist asshole who should stop projecting his racist essentialism onto continents he knows jack shit about?

i'd take the dolls albums over the first four ramones albums, easy. and i've got a copy "ramones leave home" that they signed for me at free being records on 2nd ave (right near the gem spa where the dolls posed on their 1st album) that you'd have to pry from my hands. they're both great but the dolls resonate through more dimensions of emotional and humanistic and even conceptual space.

wait are we calling xgau racist because he doesn't like european music because it *doesn't* have that thread of african-descended music running through it? that's next level, man.

That's not what I had in mind specifically (see, for instance, his comments about Hendrix as a 'psychedelic uncle Tom', or, as discussed in another thread, Shakira's 'belly dancer genes'), although the implication that European music is 100% white is pretty fucking bizarre as well and eye-rollingly US-centric.

just a little mind-boggling to hear the guy who turned me on to so many of my favorite black artists being spoken of in those terms, that's all. i wonder sometimes if our racist detectors have become too finely calibrated.

I guess I understand the appeal of the Dolls' Bowery Boys-meets-Chuck Berry schtick to a certain subset of East Coast pseuds. (Why they appealed to anyone outside lower Manhattan remains a mystery to me.) But the Ramones are more focused, and less beholden to the past (despite playing more covers), and their songs are a thousand times better. They moved the music forward in ways the Dolls didn't.

I don't think it's crazy to say that there was a streak of racial essentialism in his writing and that he was also a progressive voice for his time and promoter of music by non-white artists.xp

I'm not saying he should be outright cancelled or whatever, I was just a) taken aback when I found out that he has a history of using, and doubling down on, racist language in his reviews, and b) I hate how – in North America, at least – he gets a free pass for spewing crap about 'Europe' (what does that even mean? what is 'European grandeur'? French grandeur? Albanian grandeur? Sami grandeur? Portuguese grandeur? Maltese grandeur? etc.).

2xp yep, I agree with Sund4r.

The 'a)' should have been inserted before 'I was just', but you get my drift.

Can: Soon Over Babaluma [Spoon, 1996]
A basically instrumental excursion that aficionados rank with the sprawling Tago Mago, this 1974 Kraut-rock opus is to the Miles Davis of the era as acid jazz is to real jazz. It's never pompous, discernibly smart, playful, even goofy. If you give it your all you can make out a few shards of internal logic. But the light tone avoids texture, density, or pain. The jazzy pulse is innocent of swing, funk, or sex. And if it generates any intrinsic interest, as opposed to the conceptual kick of being so singularly European, after half a dozen plays I should have some inkling what that interest is. B-

Being from Europe, what a concept!

He missed a chance to argue that the music is good thanks to Damo Suzuki's echt-Japanese DNA.

His take on Nina Simone's Baltimore is also a bit o_O: 'a woman who not only avoids coming out with the "bitch" in "Rich Girl" but hobbles the rhythm as well has real problems.'

if you are not saying he should be "outright cancelled," what's the point of constantly recycling the few review out of his millions that push your buttons?

Shooting the shit? And expressing my dislike of his brand?

His snide anti-European piques are legion, though.

k, got it.

(Also answering Alfred's question)

That too. :)

The most clearly I've seen him spell it out:

It never seems to occur to him that, for many of us, metal's classical affinities are the very thing that renders it unlistenable--that as far as we're concerned, the instrumentally dexterous, rhetoric-drenched, and often melodramatic approach to meaning the two musics share is what rock and roll was put on earth to save us from.

https://www.robertchristgau.com/xg/bkrev/walser-cp.php

Where to begin…

if the debarge record is in a special way, xgau is not overrating it

yeah, what? pretty much the only thing I wish I'd listened to him about sooner.

I've always sensed that Xgau's anti-metal stance stems at least in part from his anti-prog stance. Both at their absolute best he'll sort of acknowgdlge begrudgingly, though he's always remained thoroughly suspicious of each. For example, here is his review of "USA," his highest rated King Crimson album, which invokes a lot of the tropes we've just discussed:

Since the nearness of death was good for this band, I figured a posthumous live album might be even better, and though lyrics and vocals are still pompous annoyances, these musical themes (including the off-the-cuff "Asbury Park") are among their best. In Central Park they have no choice but to skip the subtlety and turn it up. The excitement thus generated is more Wagner than Little Richard--this record is a case study in the Europeanness of English heavy metal. But that doesn't mean it's not classic.

Herr Christgau's tendency to conflate Europe and Germany betrays his Teutonic roots, come to think of it.

Master of Puppets [Elektra, 1986]
I feel at a generational disadvantage with this music not because my weary bones can't take its power and speed but because I was born too soon to have my dendrites rerouted by progressive radio. This band's momentum can be pretty impressive, and as with a lot of fast metal (as well as some sludge) they seem to have acceptable political motivations--antiwar, anticonformity, even anticoke, fine. But the revolutionary heroes I envisage aren't male chauvinists too inexperienced to know better; they don't have hair like Samson and pecs like Arnold Schwarzenegger. That's the image Metallica calls up, and I'm no more likely to invoke their strength of my own free will than I am The 1812 Overture's.

You go, Carola, for choosing Here, My Dear.

Yeah, that too - great album, I remember when it wasn't easy to find for a little while.

Btw, just glancing at his best of the last decade list essay, I've got to admit, I'm pretty impressed *and* perplexed that so many decades down the line he still puts the New York Dolls on par with, say, Thelonious Monk as far as his personal favorites go. Like, even if you like the Dolls a lot, that's just two records and if it was between those first two and, say, the first four from the Ramones, I'm still surprised anyone would pick the two Dolls, even if they loved them.

idk, makes sense to me. I think the world of the Dolls, and in their case, their legacy really is that concentrated, and for a pretty logical reason. I think they had it in them to record a third great album in 1975, but they only had a two-record contract and there was no interest in renewing. David Johansen went on to make a great debut solo LP, Johnny formed the Heartbreakers, etc...I would only pick one rather than both, but it's not an easy call. The first gets the edge for the songs, but the second has an edge for other reasons as well.

if the debarge record is in a special way, xgau is not overrating it

Yeah, I didn't really know it before so I'll give it time. I like it, but it probably wasn't a great idea to approach it with lofty expectations.

No doubt Christgau can come across as an opinionated asshole in his writing. I guess that's part of his brand. Unfortunately that kind of brand for a writer is very out of fashion these days. Or at least it has a way of provoking social media pile-ons in a way that didn't exist way back when. Being intentionally provocative hasn't aged well, in the era of the 24-hour online outrage cycle. He was ahead of his time in championing underrated black musical styles and calling out (predominantly white) rock critics for being provincial about not taking them seriously, and also made an effort to nurture and provide space for up and coming black critics at the Voice, but he also could use provocative racial terms in a way that provokes a lot of cringe today (and probably did to some extent even back then). He contains multitudes.

I haven't really listened to him talk before. I think he actually comes across better here than he often does in his writing. Maybe having Carola there softened him a bit, but he sounds fairly self-deprecating. He admits that he has a personal allergy to the European classical tradition, which also makes metal mostly a blind spot for him. I have no problem with that. I don't think critics should strive to be objective judges of all music, because it's impossible and kind of boring. I think sometimes his writing is too condensed and somehow a bit superficial, like he is sketching out the bones of an argument without really filling in enough of the sinew that should hold it together, and he's a bit too reliant on the sort of wise-guy dismissal of other views, but his intelligence really shines through when you listen to him in conversation. I think part of his style as a critic is importing high-brow terms and concepts from academic criticism to the rock sphere, so perhaps for him using street-level insults and moaning about "Yurrup" is a way to balance that out and show he's not an egghead.

metallica's pecs weren't that impressive