it was hardly the valedictory lap that Bowie's last album has been. Granted Lou didn't die the day after came out or anything, but I doubt that would have improved its reception. Certainly since Lou died it hasn't really gotten a critical reappraisal (which might still happen!) It's a bleak album imo, done in a style and with collaborators that he knew would throw people for a loop, at the very least.
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 26 January 2016 23:59 (eight years ago) link
it's definitely bleak, but maybe aside from "junior dad" it doesn't seem "old-man-about-to-die" bleak to me?
― tylerw, Wednesday, 27 January 2016 00:01 (eight years ago) link
yeah there doesn't seem to be a lot of personal reflection or soul-searching or career-summing up in it.
I mean, Little Dog is obviously personal but
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 27 January 2016 00:07 (eight years ago) link
All that bit about "spermless" or whatever it was? I only heard it once, entirely. (The ILX lulu, however...)
Raging against the dying of the light, etc..
― Mark G, Wednesday, 27 January 2016 00:11 (eight years ago) link
Who would be the best company in a bar: Iggy > Bowie >>> Lou
"You know, you have to be real careful where you sit downIn a bar these days"
― The Return of the Thin White Pope (Tom D.), Wednesday, 27 January 2016 00:12 (eight years ago) link
For me, the Velvet Underground makes it no contest.
― clemenza, Wednesday, 27 January 2016 00:12 (eight years ago) link
(btw that is Tony DeFries in the background of the photo at the top of the thread)
write in vote for b.g.
― lute bro (brimstead), Wednesday, 27 January 2016 00:35 (eight years ago) link
gah that's "made man". Ban me
Bowie's defense of Lulu looks a bit more calcualted now tbf.
― campreverb, Wednesday, 27 January 2016 00:39 (eight years ago) link
iggy all the way
― bicyclescope (mattresslessness), Wednesday, 27 January 2016 00:43 (eight years ago) link
Poor Marc Bolan is in that picture too
― Iago Galdston, Wednesday, 27 January 2016 00:50 (eight years ago) link
Don't really dig Iggy or Bowie or Lou all that much tbh.
― Mr. Snrub, Wednesday, 27 January 2016 00:51 (eight years ago) link
or you tbh
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 27 January 2016 01:05 (eight years ago) link
any velvets album > any bowie album
― iatee, Wednesday, 27 January 2016 01:30 (eight years ago) link
that's like saying any Dylan album > any Petty album
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 27 January 2016 01:36 (eight years ago) link
or Shakespeare > O'Neill
Meh, I'd say there are a few Bowie albums that are preferable to Loaded.
― doug watson, Wednesday, 27 January 2016 02:52 (eight years ago) link
a disciple's albums rarely surpass a master's.
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 27 January 2016 03:06 (eight years ago) link
fun house is my pick of the litter. bowie was warhol and had the most cosmic imagination. lou came from long island accountant money and acted like it. bowie
― reggie (qualmsley), Wednesday, 27 January 2016 03:07 (eight years ago) link
this is David Bowie for me but Lou Reed is like 1B.
― Bee OK, Wednesday, 27 January 2016 03:23 (eight years ago) link
nah, lou is definitely more of a 2B
― Karl Malone, Wednesday, 27 January 2016 03:27 (eight years ago) link
Yeah, I don't see this as being the relationship at all. The Velvet Underground were a great band. Their '66-'67 output is better than Bowie's. "Space Oddity" is not the work of a VU disciple, though. If you want to make the argument that the VU were the godfathers of it all with glam and punk, I mean, OK? I'm not buying it so much tonight.
― timellison, Wednesday, 27 January 2016 03:35 (eight years ago) link
It's more fun for me to think of them as a cool '60s band from New York. And to think of the Stooges and Marc Bolan and a bunch of others as innovators. David Bowie.
― timellison, Wednesday, 27 January 2016 03:36 (eight years ago) link
My point is that the Velvets don't even belong in the conversation.
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 27 January 2016 03:44 (eight years ago) link
Why?
― timellison, Wednesday, 27 January 2016 03:48 (eight years ago) link
Too big, too encompassing, too weird. It's like saying Joyce is better than Colm Toibin. Why would you compare a supremely gifted novelist and short story writer to a novelist of singular protean skill like Joyce because they share a lineage? It does the lesser writer no favors.
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 27 January 2016 03:51 (eight years ago) link
I don't see the Velvets that way. They were a very cool band but I'm not at all convinced that their scope was ultimately greater than, let's say the period covered by Changesonebowie, much less in such a rarefied league that you can't even compare the two.
― timellison, Wednesday, 27 January 2016 04:02 (eight years ago) link
Velvets aren't as weird as Bowie imo. They were minmal and droney but Bowie is far more baroque and grotesque. Velvets have no Goblin King pop moment either. Bono singing "Perfect Day 2000 Remix" doesn't count. I will take many Bowie albums over "Loaded" any day.
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 27 January 2016 04:03 (eight years ago) link
Bowie had pop hits early in his career, and far greater success with novelty hits subsequently over the decades.
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 27 January 2016 04:04 (eight years ago) link
Tony Defries is a British former pop music manager. Defries worked in the 1960s music scene with such figures as Mickie Most, Allen Klein, before turning his attention to David Bowie. Defries' company MainMan had a management structure that combined ingredients of the movie studio with those of the independent producer/record label/music publisher. The company management included Jamie Andrews as vice-president and later president. Defries represented Bowie through his rise to stardom, reputedly making more money from the deal than the star himself. He also helped to launch the solo careers of Iggy Pop, Lou Reed, Mick Ronson, Mott the Hoople, Luther Vandross and John Mellencamp. His MainMan Group of companies assisted in the creation of many independent record and publishing companies that were later acquired by major conglomerates.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Defries
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Defries
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 27 January 2016 04:16 (eight years ago) link
Bowie vs Iggy is tough cos didn't Bowie basically save the Stooges?
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 27 January 2016 04:19 (eight years ago) link
Bowie is far more baroque and grotesque
LOL gtfo Velvets were both of these, in spades. Among other things.
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 27 January 2016 04:21 (eight years ago) link
Life On Mars vs. what is the most baroque Velvets song?
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 27 January 2016 04:48 (eight years ago) link
Murder Mystery? Lady Godiva?
The viola and glockenspiel on "Stephanie Says," the glockenspiel on "Sunday Morning." Maybe the extended chords on "Femme Fatale." Maybe something like the melodicism and imagery of "All Tomorrow's Parties."
― timellison, Wednesday, 27 January 2016 05:12 (eight years ago) link
This thread is taking a stagenosedive
― Look at that Pavement POLL (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 27 January 2016 05:14 (eight years ago) link
I'm just throwing out things I think are about as close to baroque rock as, say, Love. Would probably give a narrower definition of baroque rock proper, though.
― timellison, Wednesday, 27 January 2016 05:29 (eight years ago) link
Iggy's the least gifted of the three, but the Stooges records (particularly Funhouse) meant more to me than anything Lou and Bowie ever did. Have to vote for Igg.
― circa1916, Wednesday, 27 January 2016 07:12 (eight years ago) link
If by "save" you mean keep alive via artificial means, sure. Artistically, though, there's no universe in which Raw Power is a better album than Fun House, or even a fit sequel.
― the top man in the language department (誤訳侮辱), Wednesday, 27 January 2016 10:16 (eight years ago) link
Lou and David wish they were Iggy.
xpost it's a fit sequel, but.
― Mark G, Wednesday, 27 January 2016 10:22 (eight years ago) link
naaah, Lou only wished one thing : to play for the coach.by the way, I have listened to "Blue Mask". It's ok but I guess I don't really need 80s Lou... (although I have to admit "Women" made me laugh !).
― AlXTC from Paris, Wednesday, 27 January 2016 10:28 (eight years ago) link
there's no universe in which Raw Power is a better album than Fun House, or even a fit sequel.
Wrongest statement of 2016 so far. Long way to go though tbf.
― The Return of the Thin White Pope (Tom D.), Wednesday, 27 January 2016 11:40 (eight years ago) link
Lou. I'll take the Velvets' four albums (along with The Blue Mask) over Bowie's and Iggy's entire catalogues.
― Jazzbo, Wednesday, 27 January 2016 12:03 (eight years ago) link
by the way, I have listened to "Blue Mask". It's ok but I guess I don't really need 80s Lou...
hey Lou doesn't need YOU either, he's just an average guy
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 27 January 2016 16:38 (eight years ago) link
I love women. I think they're great.
― AlXTC from Paris, Wednesday, 27 January 2016 16:39 (eight years ago) link
more thoughts re: the Velvets vs. Bowie - the one thing Bowie did, thematically, that the Velvets didn't was science fiction. Lou was not interested in that shit. But musically an awful lot of Bowie's styles can be traced back to the Velvets in some way or another (which he would and did freely acknowledge), I think Alfred is v otm about the master:disciple relationship.
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 27 January 2016 16:40 (eight years ago) link
SATELLITE OF LOVE tho
― tylerw, Wednesday, 27 January 2016 16:42 (eight years ago) link
but yeah, Lou wasn't really a sci-fi dude as far as i know (he was into EC horror comics, i believe)
― tylerw, Wednesday, 27 January 2016 16:43 (eight years ago) link
hmm yeah satellite of love is kind of proto-space oddity - the alienation of space/technology
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 27 January 2016 16:50 (eight years ago) link