Who's the Main Man : Bowie, Iggy or Lou ?

well I'm not really sure which one was written first (I doubt you know either)

certainly Space Oddity was *released* first

it's possible that was Lou copping "Space Oddity", I suppose, dunno if he ever discussed that particular song anywhere

The Byrds "Hey Mr. Spaceman" and "Eight Miles High"

also "telstar"

that's probably ground zero

those songs aren't really about alienation iirc

I mean there are tons of songs about outer space, aliens, astronauts etc. but Space Oddity and Satellite of Love are more about how *lonely* being in outer space could be, and about how technology separates people from one another

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CQA3jzmvA4

heh I wonder if Lou and Tom Wilson ever chatted about Sun Ra

'please mr kennedy (don't you shoot me into outer space)'

puh-puh-puh-puhleeze

uh-OH

hadn't thought of it before, but yeah, satellite of love *could've* been Lou kinda taking a sly shot at "space oddity"... think that "satellite" was written in late '69.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/VCWveMY8vzU?feature=player_detailpage"; frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

(ack, sorry, Shirley Collins with Space Girl)

look if we're just going to post songs about space we can start another thread cuz as a subject that goes *waaaaaay* back (Hank Snow's "Honeymoon on a Rocketship" is 1953 and I'm sure there's earlier stuff than that)

xp

Never really saw "Satellite of Love" as being about alienation and the loneliness of space. It's more about watching TV than outer space.

Where is the loneliness, is "Soon it'll be filled with parkin' cars" supposed to be alienating?

Lou and David's writing styles are so different though - David's a romantic and Lou's colloquial. It's the prosaic qualities in Lou's work that keep me coming back to understand my life through his, but David let's me fly.

Was never big on Iggy but have a lot of respect for his work of course.

love is gone into outer space, only accessible via TV

xp

Was Space Oddity a well known song in the US in 1969?

Nope. It wasn't a hit here until 1973 (#15).

So Lou probably more familiar with Sun Ra in '69 than David Bowie after all.

My parents had the single.

Then again I first heard Iggy Pop in a movie movie theater showing "Problem Child" and now the Iggy-Bowie songs are in commercials for cruise ships. Kind of amazing how successful these three turned out to be. From junkies to afternoon TV.

Iggy's the least gifted of the three, but the Stooges records (particularly Funhouse) meant more to me than anything Lou and Bowie ever did. Have to vote for Igg.

― circa1916, Wednesday, 27 January 2016 07:12 (14 hours ago) Permalink

^^^ cosign this; while my knowledge of these three dudes' discographies is far from comprehensive, Fun House and The Idiot would be #1 & #2 on my list by such a huge margin (VU s/t & Ziggy Stardust *might* be in sniffing distance, depending on which way the wind blows), it more than makes up for the fact that no other Iggy/Stooges material would crack the top 10

PS: I still ride for Bowie's brilliantly insane mixing of Raw Power -- Raw Power in general I have a lot of love for, there are some wonderful songs on there -- but if you come in here running your mouth about how it's a better record than Fun House I will smash my beer bottle, wave it at you and demand that you get out

Who's the Main Man : Bowie, Iggy or Lou ?
He will walk through the wall if you want him to

i agree about the bowie mix of raw power being the better one. personally i've always found the iggy remix really hard to sit through.

if you come in here running your mouth about how it's a better record than Fun House I will smash my beer bottle, wave it at you and demand that you get out

No-one has that though... possibly ever.

ahem

Bowie vs Iggy is tough cos didn't Bowie basically save the Stooges?

― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 27 January 2016 04:19 (Yesterday) Permalink

If by "save" you mean keep alive via artificial means, sure. Artistically, though, there's no universe in which Raw Power is a better album than Fun House, or even a fit sequel.

― the top man in the language department (誤訳侮辱), Wednesday, January 27, 2016 10:16 AM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

there's no universe in which Raw Power is a better album than Fun House, or even a fit sequel.

Wrongest statement of 2016 so far. Long way to go though tbf.

― The Return of the Thin White Pope (Tom D.), Wednesday, January 27, 2016 11:40 AM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

But I never her. OK that was confusing because I meant the statement about it not being a 'fit sequel'.

.. which it is.

And how.

Area mean loudly proclaims Raw Power Funhouse fit sequel status.

Hray!

Thurston Moore has said in an interview or essay somewhere that he's more a Raw Power guy than a Funhouse guy. It was apparently the first Iggy he heard, being sold by the Mick Rock cover photo.

have always preferred Raw Power to Fun House but only narrowly and probably in part because Raw Power really reached my speeding teenage soul. Kinda feel like everybody in here is now officially too old to be doing the NO WAY, THE ONE IS A MIGHTY TOWER OF EXCELLENCE AND SHITS FROM THE TOP OF A COCONUT TREE ON THE OTHER, WHO COULD BE SO BAFFLINGLY STUPID AS TO PREFER THE WRONG ONE tho, c'mon yall

question is moot

i am the main man

are you now are you now

My anti-RP arguments can be boiled down as follows:

1) Sonically, it's always been a big ol' mess and there's really no salvaging it. If ugly-on-purpose (as opposed to ugly beauty) is your thing, great, but it's not mine.

2) I get the appeal of speed as JCLC describes it, but that's not and never has been as big a value for me as bringing the heavy. Fun House brings the heavy.

3) Steve Mackay > no Steve Mackay

4) Fun House swings; Raw Power careens. (This relates back to #2, because the best heavy music - Black Sabbath being example #1 here - swings.)

Also, when I say "fit sequel" I'm mostly saying that Raw Power is not a logical follow-up to Fun House in the way that Fun House was a logical follow-up to The Stooges. It feels like, by yanking the core components of the band out of place - new lead guitarist! The old lead guitarist is the bassist now! The bassist, who was actually really, really important to the core sound, is gone! - they created an entirely new band rather than allowing the old band to continue to refine and develop its sound in an organic manner. (Of course, they were probably way too high and pissed off at each other to do that, so radical intervention was required if there was even gonna be a band at all. Which suggests that maybe there shouldn't have been, anymore? Hence my statement about keeping the band alive by artificial means.)

It feels like, by yanking the core components of the band out of place - new lead guitarist! The old lead guitarist is the bassist now! The bassist, who was actually really, really important to the core sound, is gone! - they created an entirely new band rather than allowing the old band to continue to refine and develop its sound in an organic manner.

I would say this is absolutely true. Funhouse is a considerably more musical record - the band's playing really way, they find an amazing sound. Raw Power just reached waaaaaay deep down inside me when I was a teenager, it'll always own my heart. And Iggy hits some lyrical moments that're among his very best - "there's nothing in my dreams, just some ugly memories" - Jesus. That album cover - the opening solo on "Search and Destroy" - the ghastly void of "Shake Appeal" - it's like a 70s horror movie to me. Not The Omen: The Hills Have Eyes.

But yeah I mean from a technical standpoint the recording and playing and groove and everything is better on Raw Power. It's better in every sense except that Raw Power reaches me way deeper, so it's better to me.

"really way better" in 1st line, sorry

You also misspelled "Fun House" in that last sentence.

誤訳侮辱 otm on all points. Just want to add that I always felt the "logical" follow-up to Fun House would've been something that built on/extended what they were doing on "L.A. Blues" (but that's just wild fantasy speculation on my part).

y'all gonna hate me for this but I'm convinced the logical follow-up to Fun House is Joy Division (live, not in-studio)

You also misspelled "Fun House" in that last sentence.

ha, right. playing much better on Fun House. I don't think anybody could reasonably argue the opposite unless they were on some Lester Bangs "the best playing is the sloppiest" thing or something.

I always felt the "logical" follow-up to Fun House would've been something that built on/extended what they were doing on "L.A. Blues" (but that's just wild fantasy speculation on my part).

Just a side note to mention that if this is what you're looking for, check out Spain Is The Place, an album featuring Ricardo Tejero on alto sax, Colin Webster on tenor and baritone saxes, and Marco Serrato and Borja Diaz of Orthodox on bass and drums. It's coming out soon on Raw Tonk Records, but there's a track on Soundcloud already:

https://soundcloud.com/rawtonkrecords/tejerowebsterserratodiaz-el-gordillo

The Fun House box is fascinating for a number of reasons, chief among them how meticulous they were in their approach. On one false start (I think it's a take of "Loose"), Iggy stops everyone and says, "I forgot to say 'hey!' at the beginning!"