Who's the Main Man : Bowie, Iggy or Lou ?

Was Space Oddity a well known song in the US in 1969?

Nope. It wasn't a hit here until 1973 (#15).

So Lou probably more familiar with Sun Ra in '69 than David Bowie after all.

My parents had the single.

Then again I first heard Iggy Pop in a movie movie theater showing "Problem Child" and now the Iggy-Bowie songs are in commercials for cruise ships. Kind of amazing how successful these three turned out to be. From junkies to afternoon TV.

Iggy's the least gifted of the three, but the Stooges records (particularly Funhouse) meant more to me than anything Lou and Bowie ever did. Have to vote for Igg.

― circa1916, Wednesday, 27 January 2016 07:12 (14 hours ago) Permalink

^^^ cosign this; while my knowledge of these three dudes' discographies is far from comprehensive, Fun House and The Idiot would be #1 & #2 on my list by such a huge margin (VU s/t & Ziggy Stardust *might* be in sniffing distance, depending on which way the wind blows), it more than makes up for the fact that no other Iggy/Stooges material would crack the top 10

PS: I still ride for Bowie's brilliantly insane mixing of Raw Power -- Raw Power in general I have a lot of love for, there are some wonderful songs on there -- but if you come in here running your mouth about how it's a better record than Fun House I will smash my beer bottle, wave it at you and demand that you get out

Who's the Main Man : Bowie, Iggy or Lou ?
He will walk through the wall if you want him to

i agree about the bowie mix of raw power being the better one. personally i've always found the iggy remix really hard to sit through.

if you come in here running your mouth about how it's a better record than Fun House I will smash my beer bottle, wave it at you and demand that you get out

No-one has that though... possibly ever.

ahem

Bowie vs Iggy is tough cos didn't Bowie basically save the Stooges?

― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 27 January 2016 04:19 (Yesterday) Permalink

If by "save" you mean keep alive via artificial means, sure. Artistically, though, there's no universe in which Raw Power is a better album than Fun House, or even a fit sequel.

― the top man in the language department (誤訳侮辱), Wednesday, January 27, 2016 10:16 AM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

there's no universe in which Raw Power is a better album than Fun House, or even a fit sequel.

Wrongest statement of 2016 so far. Long way to go though tbf.

― The Return of the Thin White Pope (Tom D.), Wednesday, January 27, 2016 11:40 AM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

But I never her. OK that was confusing because I meant the statement about it not being a 'fit sequel'.

.. which it is.

And how.

Area mean loudly proclaims Raw Power Funhouse fit sequel status.

Hray!

Thurston Moore has said in an interview or essay somewhere that he's more a Raw Power guy than a Funhouse guy. It was apparently the first Iggy he heard, being sold by the Mick Rock cover photo.

have always preferred Raw Power to Fun House but only narrowly and probably in part because Raw Power really reached my speeding teenage soul. Kinda feel like everybody in here is now officially too old to be doing the NO WAY, THE ONE IS A MIGHTY TOWER OF EXCELLENCE AND SHITS FROM THE TOP OF A COCONUT TREE ON THE OTHER, WHO COULD BE SO BAFFLINGLY STUPID AS TO PREFER THE WRONG ONE tho, c'mon yall

question is moot

i am the main man

are you now are you now

My anti-RP arguments can be boiled down as follows:

1) Sonically, it's always been a big ol' mess and there's really no salvaging it. If ugly-on-purpose (as opposed to ugly beauty) is your thing, great, but it's not mine.

2) I get the appeal of speed as JCLC describes it, but that's not and never has been as big a value for me as bringing the heavy. Fun House brings the heavy.

3) Steve Mackay > no Steve Mackay

4) Fun House swings; Raw Power careens. (This relates back to #2, because the best heavy music - Black Sabbath being example #1 here - swings.)

Also, when I say "fit sequel" I'm mostly saying that Raw Power is not a logical follow-up to Fun House in the way that Fun House was a logical follow-up to The Stooges. It feels like, by yanking the core components of the band out of place - new lead guitarist! The old lead guitarist is the bassist now! The bassist, who was actually really, really important to the core sound, is gone! - they created an entirely new band rather than allowing the old band to continue to refine and develop its sound in an organic manner. (Of course, they were probably way too high and pissed off at each other to do that, so radical intervention was required if there was even gonna be a band at all. Which suggests that maybe there shouldn't have been, anymore? Hence my statement about keeping the band alive by artificial means.)

It feels like, by yanking the core components of the band out of place - new lead guitarist! The old lead guitarist is the bassist now! The bassist, who was actually really, really important to the core sound, is gone! - they created an entirely new band rather than allowing the old band to continue to refine and develop its sound in an organic manner.

I would say this is absolutely true. Funhouse is a considerably more musical record - the band's playing really way, they find an amazing sound. Raw Power just reached waaaaaay deep down inside me when I was a teenager, it'll always own my heart. And Iggy hits some lyrical moments that're among his very best - "there's nothing in my dreams, just some ugly memories" - Jesus. That album cover - the opening solo on "Search and Destroy" - the ghastly void of "Shake Appeal" - it's like a 70s horror movie to me. Not The Omen: The Hills Have Eyes.

But yeah I mean from a technical standpoint the recording and playing and groove and everything is better on Raw Power. It's better in every sense except that Raw Power reaches me way deeper, so it's better to me.

"really way better" in 1st line, sorry

You also misspelled "Fun House" in that last sentence.

誤訳侮辱 otm on all points. Just want to add that I always felt the "logical" follow-up to Fun House would've been something that built on/extended what they were doing on "L.A. Blues" (but that's just wild fantasy speculation on my part).

y'all gonna hate me for this but I'm convinced the logical follow-up to Fun House is Joy Division (live, not in-studio)

You also misspelled "Fun House" in that last sentence.

ha, right. playing much better on Fun House. I don't think anybody could reasonably argue the opposite unless they were on some Lester Bangs "the best playing is the sloppiest" thing or something.

I always felt the "logical" follow-up to Fun House would've been something that built on/extended what they were doing on "L.A. Blues" (but that's just wild fantasy speculation on my part).

Just a side note to mention that if this is what you're looking for, check out Spain Is The Place, an album featuring Ricardo Tejero on alto sax, Colin Webster on tenor and baritone saxes, and Marco Serrato and Borja Diaz of Orthodox on bass and drums. It's coming out soon on Raw Tonk Records, but there's a track on Soundcloud already:

https://soundcloud.com/rawtonkrecords/tejerowebsterserratodiaz-el-gordillo

The Fun House box is fascinating for a number of reasons, chief among them how meticulous they were in their approach. On one false start (I think it's a take of "Loose"), Iggy stops everyone and says, "I forgot to say 'hey!' at the beginning!"

xp A few Takayanagi records have already scratched that itch for me, but that sounds good.

The true answer is Jagger but yeah, he's a notch above. It's obviously Lou otherwise. Let's not get carried away with Bowie love. Nothing he did is in the same realm as the VU. Iggy is an afterthought, I'd go Rotten before Iggy.

I think what most impresses me about Fun House is that it covers all this ground -- obviously I can't know how "Down on the street" or "T.V. Eye" sounded in 1970, but they rock in a way that I feel okay describing as 'straightforward' -- whereas by the end of side B, The Stooges have brought us to the edge of sheer formless sonic chaos & left us squinting into the darkness after them -- spellbound by Iggy's charisma, the aforementioned swingin' basslines, the fiercely rudimentary drumming, we don't notice the change is upon us until it's too late.

I had originally described this pseudo-narrative progression as the album "making sense" when taken as a whole, but as I tried to elaborate on that notion, I realized that I mean something closer to the opposite: The album doesn't make any sense, at least none that I can express in words. But it produces effects, powerful effects, effects that I seek in vain from other rock music, finding only faint traces, reflections and echoes that point me right back to Fun House. Faced with this reality, I have to posit some higher, invisible metaphysical realm of "art", a plane of existence on which, thanks to some hidden numerological craziness, Fun House would, in fact, make sense; because my brain simply can't admit that, in a record whose ecstasy stirs me in the deepest regions of my soul, there might be nothing speaking through the music except brutal nihilism & meaningless contingency.

(btw the failed mysticism of my last post is in no way a repudiation of meticulousness, or an assertion that "beginner's luck" had anything to do with it -- rather, I'm denying that craftmanship in the recording process, or any other intentional factor, can sufficiently account for the powerful aura which eventually settled over the finished product)

The true answer is Jagger but yeah, he's a notch above. It's obviously Lou otherwise. Let's not get carried away with Bowie love. Nothing he did is in the same realm as the VU. Iggy is an afterthought, I'd go Rotten before Iggy.

And we have a new Wrongest Opinion champion for this thread. Congratulations.

Thanks! Who did I steal the title from?

Tuomas

But yeah, I stand behind it. What part is wrong? Fun House is great but I'm not sure if it's because of Iggy. Nevermind the Bollocks is godly because of Rotten no doubt. Bowie is impressive/interesting but not often truly great. Surely not on the level of songwriting that is Reed's VU run. It goes Sister Ray > Station to Station >>> Dirt

yeah disagree w/ everything in that post except iggy vs. rotten (i'll take metal box/second edition over anything iggy did after funhouse).

Sister Ray > Station to Station >>> Dirt
― simmel, Thursday, January 28, 2016 5:56 PM (27 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post

Sister Ray is super overrated. I imagine many garage bands in the 60s were capable bashing out 30-minute drone jams. They just didn't get put to tape.

^^^

Thurston Moore has said in an interview or essay somewhere that he's more a Raw Power guy than a Funhouse guy. It was apparently the first Iggy he heard, being sold by the Mick Rock cover photo.

Hey, it's my old mate Thurston! RP was the first Stooges album I heard, in fact it was years before I heard Funhouse, by which time I'd already heard the first album and several Iggy solo albums, LOL the olden days.

Sister Ray is super overrated. I imagine many garage bands in the 60s were capable bashing out 30-minute drone jams. They just didn't get put to tape.

We have a possible new contender for wrongest statement of 2016. Like just anyone could pull off the sounds Reed and Cale are producing on this track!

Or Tucker. Or Morrison.

The VU would be my #1 contender for that "things you admire but don't like" thread, if I could say I admired them. The best I can offer is that I recognize and concede the breadth of their influence, while believing that literally everything that's come in their wake, down to the most half-assed Jesus & Mary Chain B-side, is better than their own work.

^^^newer contender for wrongest statement of 2016

http://static.rogerebert.com/redactor_assets/pictures/far-flung-correspondents/he-coulda-been-a-contender/on-the-waterfront-charley-head-rest.jpg

otm

Kind of my introduction to all three way back when...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPvWoEiaEqU

loved that doc, taped all 10 episodes and watched them over and over again. That one and the funk one were totally revelatory to me.