School me on SONOS and other home streaming systems

Yeah both my wife and I have Android phones and will I think continue to for the foreseeable future, so the Chromecast Audio looks a pretty easy solution. Although getting my entire library into the cloud, while probably sensible in the long term, still feels like a massive ballache.

Are there really no options that involve just whacking a hard drive into the back of them? TV streaming boxes have been offering that functionality for years, with the ability to zip files round the network vi wifi.

Quality is an issue for me (this is a really good Linn system that we were amazingly lucky to get second-hand) so any option has to sound good on that kind of setup. Then again streaming any source to the Apple Express sounds good in that setup, and I doubt the Chromecast will be a big step down from that.

NAS + Sonos Connect might be the way to go, happy to pay a bit more for something robust in the longer-term. But that Marantz box in the first response does look tasty.

Really useful thread, thanks! I figured I was unlikely to be the only person wondering about this stuff.

I'm running a Chromecast Audio through optical to Musical Fidelity VDAC II into s Cambridge Audio amp and nice speakers. Even using Spotify it gets pretty close to vinyl and CD, there's still some harshness which I think midrange speakers that aren't so revealing might be better... But all said I spent $35 for the CCA and $150 off eBay for the DAC and it's great

One thing to point out, Chromecast Audio doesn't "stream" from your phone. It has its own broadband WiFi connection. Your phone just "points" the CCA towards what you want to play. That means it's not compressed like Bluetooth streaming and even better you can go to another app like YouTube or take a phone call and it won't affect the music. Even if you turn your phone off it will continue to play until the end of the current album or play list.

I'm sure Chromecast works best with Android devices, but I've had good luck using my iPhone and a regular, video-oriented Chromecast -- no problems using the iPhone to control Spotify or YouTube on the Chromecast.

also need something the family can use . . . everyone else in the house will want something that just works

This might actually be my favorite things about Sonos. My wife had just about given up on listening to music between her frustration with Airplay and the impracticality of CDs/vinyl on our main stereo with two kids under the age of 5 running about pressing any button within reach. Now she has music playing all day long and is rediscovering her love for forgotten bands, the kids are being exposed to so much more music, everyone is asking for more speakers throughout the house . . .

I got my parents into Sonos w/ Spotify. My mom is the kind of person who types GOOGLE.COM in the search bar on Google.com. She can work the Sonos from her phone.

Anyone here with experience replacing a Squeezebox 2/3/Touch with a Sonos Connect? I guess since it doesn't have a screen you need an iPad or something to control it?

I was also thinking about this recently. My hifi is very old and i haven't listened to any of my cds or vinyl in years. It's also difficult to find a space for it in my current living room.

How are the actually sonos speakers? I don't care sooo much about sound quality but I certainly don't want anything that sounds like a portable bluetooth speaker.

Or is it a better option to investigate a new standalone hifi and then get a sonos connect or similar?

Sonos app makes it unusable to me. True heads can't even listen to Youtube & my 64 gb itunes library never fully syncs. Currently use apple airplay thru vintage gear but it buffers so I'm interested in other options as well.

Thanks for the tips in this thread, I've been looking for a streaming device too. I have only one audio set in one room I would need to stream to, so I ended up ordering Chromecast Audio... However, upon looking at Google own streaming app, Google Play, it noticed that it transcodes all the FLAC into MP3s. And I know Plex does the same... Most of the music files on my computer are FLACs, and Chromecast itself supports that format, so are there any good music streaming apps that would stream FLACs to Chromecast without transcoding them?

I agree with ums that chromecast audio is THE best bargain on the market. But for multiroom purposes I think Sonos, HEOS or Bluesound are better (though more expensive) choices, in part because of the dedicated control app.

Sonos Connect is a great way to get started with streaming on your current stereo system, it's probably the most stable and developed system on the market. Heos Link and Bluesound Node 2 are good alternatives, they offer more connectivity (usb, optical input, bluetooth-adapter, subwoofer pre-out, triggers) and improved sound (24 bit support, better built-in DACs, better optical outputs).

If you're looking to replace you current amplifier, you'll need active speakers or streamer-amps. The stand alone speakers (like the Sonos Play 1) are impressive but can be a bit tiresome to listen to for very long - unless you're allergic to passive speakers I'd recommend the Sonos Connect Amp, Heos Amp or Bluesound Powernode 2 with a set of budget passive speakers for your main listening room. Price will be similar to a Play:5 or a stereo pair of Play:3s, sound is going to be a lot better.

No matter what system you choose, I think you'll experience improved functionality with a NAS - so if streaming your own collection of music files is important, I think that's a solid investment.

As a final note, I'll add that your streaming system is never going to function any better than your router - so if you're using the one supplied by your ISP, getting a proper router (~80$) can make all the difference.

No matter what system you choose, I think you'll experience improved functionality with a NAS - so if streaming your own collection of music files is important, I think that's a solid investment.

Sorry if I sound stupid, but what's a NAS and how do you acquire it?

and can i eat it?

NAS, Network Attached Server. dedicated file server running something like FreeNas or MediaVault.

NAS : network storage.
basically a big hard disc that you access via your home network.
they are not too pricey these days :

http://www.pcworld.co.uk/gbuk/computing-accessories/data-storage/data-storage/wd-my-cloud-personal-cloud-storage-4-tb-21817659-pdt.html

i use the NAS/Sonos Connect setup, and its brilliant.
not fussed re speakers round the house, just needed to get my digital archive into my stereo, and figured this was the best option for my needs.
and yeah, the desktop app is very easy to use, and i love the way you can flip from digital radio, various streaming services (i got 12 months free deezer when i bought the sonos connect), and your local digital library without any trouble whatsoever.

Rather than full-blown NAS enclosure… can i kill 2 birds/1 stone: buy a new, stronger router with a USB port, plug a terabyte hard drive into that, then point Sonos and/or CCA towards that?

So basically it's an external hard drive that also works as a cloud? The price is pretty steep, but I guess it'd eventually pay itself back since you don't have to pay a monthly/yearly like with net-based cloud services...

One thing that seems a bit worrying, in order for it work you have to keep it and your modem on all the time, right? That seems like a bit of fire hazard, or am I overtly cautious?

(xpost)

yes, to keep your network up and running, then you do need to leave the router on.
i dont think this is a fire hazard !
re router+ USB : no idea, i would suspect it is possible, just depends on how the router maps the USB drive.
if you can access the USB drive as a standard external network drive, then i see no reason why you cant point Sonos to that location and pick up the digital files.

One thing that seems a bit worrying, in order for it work you have to keep it and your modem on all the time, right? That seems like a bit of fire hazard, or am I overtly cautious?

people turn off their modem/router???

One thing that seems a bit worrying, in order for it work you have to keep it and your modem on all the time, right? That seems like a bit of fire hazard, or am I overtly cautious?

You're being overly cautious. The equipment is designed to be on 24/7 and to just burst into flames would represent a major design flaw. Virtually every office building in the developed world has a server on constantly, if your concerns were realistic they'd be burning down all the time.

I don't think I've turned a router off except to reboot it in about 15 years.

Rather than full-blown NAS enclosure… can i kill 2 birds/1 stone: buy a new, stronger router with a USB port, plug a terabyte hard drive into that, then point Sonos and/or CCA towards that?

I think my BT Homehub might do this but I've never worked out how to actually set it up properly.

if you think about it there is also electricity CONSTANTLY running into the house. you can prove this by flipping a light switch on, there is no latency, i.e. the electricity is storing up behind the walls in an active state.

haha that is not how electricity works

Like even if any of that post made sense, "you can prove this by flipping a light switch on, there is no latency" is cartoon funny - the idea you could see the delay between your fingers flipping a switch and a light turning on if it wasn't "storing up behind the walls".

You're being overly cautious. The equipment is designed to be on 24/7 and to just burst into flames would represent a major design flaw. Virtually every office building in the developed world has a server on constantly, if your concerns were realistic they'd be burning down all the time.

Yeah, I get this, but those servers have inbuilt cooling, unlike my modem, which gets fairly hot if I keep it on for two days in a row. I assume this NAS has its own cooling system, though?

i acquired a sonos player last year and the sound is really good but

It ticks every one of your requirements except being able to plug in an external hard drive.

this was just a bit of a deal-breaker - i play all my music off an external HD and the speaker seemed to be requiring that i never switch my laptop off? i don't really see how that's remotely desirable.

Yeah I think this is why people are talking about servers/moving everything to the cloud. Always-on laptop is the scenario I want to avoid.

what about an always-on raspberry pi?

it really confused me when i got it because it was like...how on earth did sonos not take that into account when designing their weird system?

xp

I have the older version of the Marantz mentioned near the top of the thread.

I went for this because, after selling all my high-end gear in 2012 and going with a basic separates system (10yo Sony DVD player into 30yo Cyrus amp), and then giving those up too, I wanted to start from scratch with something good but simple. The sound quality is great (basically just the Marantz into Q-Acoustics monitors and Sennheiser headphones), but there are a few niggles with it dropping off my network with some regularity - so it can't find Spotify, or my iPhone / tablet app can't find the Marantz. CD playback was essential for me (again, it would be nice here if, seeing as it's a networked device, it could do a Gracenote-style lookup and not just say "11 tracks 55:12" like a dumb CD player), but there is a cheaper model without.

It also has a useless Last.fm mode (support for that was withdrawn before I bought mine), good FM/DAB and NAS/USB/Bluetooth/AirPlay connections (the last of which I use a lot when I can't be bothered navigating Spotify via the clunky Marantz app).

As an amp, it's perfectly fine - I route the TV and MD deck in via S/PDIF, and the turntable pre-amp via analogue. I think that's about all the connections taken up, mind.

it's tempting to think there's a NAS out there that you can dump your music onto, and feed your Spotify Premium details, and it would provide a unified search/playlist interface to? with RCA out?

I'm looking to reconfigure my home audio system, hopefully in a way that also integrates with my TV. My main music source is Spotify and my main TV platform is Roku. The essential apps for me on Roku are Netflix, Amazon, YouTube, Twitch, and Spotify. Unfortunately, the Roku Spotify app is pretty bad. It doesn't allow you to play from folders, only from individual playlists, and it doesn't support local files, only songs in Spotify's library. I've tried doing screen mirroring from my Android phone to Roku for Spotify, but Roku's screen mirroring is junk, it crashes a lot and pretty much disrupts my wi-fi.

I don't think SONOS is the answer to this, but I'm curious about Chromecast. My main reservations are the lack of Amazon and the concern that casting from my phone to my TV/stereo will cause similar wi-fi issues as the Roku.

I wonder if there are any players that would do the same as what the Marantz does, but also work as an bluray/net video player with an HDMI out and surround sound? I have 5.1 speaker set and I watch movies and play music through the same Yamaha A/V receiver... It feels pretty pointless to have separate systems for music and videos, but most audiophile players/receivers seem to be for audio only.

(xpost)

I have been looking at that Marantz thing for a while actually. If it had phono input I would have bought it already. But I've been in a state of indecision for a while now about whether to get that plus separate phono preamp OR vintage integrated amp plus bluetooth adapter (plus separate CD player I guess).

Oppo players might they are supposed to be great dacs

yeah it would be cool if Roku or Plex could just Handle It All, preferably through a unified search interface.

Again not to sound like I'm on the payroll but a Chromecast Audio & DAC would be preferrable to a DAC w Bluetooth adapter imo

I'm fairly clueless about these things... I have a Yamaha receiver with a supposedly good inbuilt DAC, if I plug the Chromecast Audio to the Yamaha via the optical S/PDIF (which it apparently has), would that be enough, or would I still need a separate DAC in between them?

Nope, no further DAC needed.

Thanks!

I've plugged my external hard drive into my BT router and it worked well enough to start with (basics: I was able to access my iTunes library) but every time my laptop went to sleep I had to reconnect/rediscover the drive. It was a pain in the tits. I get this with my airport express, too (in that it seems to drop off the network if not used for anything much longer than about a half hour and I have to turn it off and on again). I assume it's the low-quality of the router, unless it's something obvious I'm missing?

I'm rapidly talking/being talked into a Chromecast Audio here. Is it audibly better quality than an airport express or the same deal?

Sonos + Spotify is probably the easiest solution, but as someone who refuses to subscribe to music streaming services (it only works on Sonos if you're a paying Spotify user), I've been thinking about getting a network drive to store all my music.

I stayed at a house last summer where the owner had installed Sonos speakers all through the house, including the bathroom and on the patio outside. It was so great to be able to control the music in different rooms and to decide when we wanted to listen to the same thing throughout the house. Almost tempted me into subscribing to Spotify...

Google Music or Amazon Prime music allows you to stream and upload your purchased music and then you can stream it

Sonos is great. We collected bits and pieces second hand (including waterproof controller for bathroom) and I couldn't be without it now. The controllers all broke but they replaced them with wizzy new ones and you can control with your phone anyway. Used with one existing amplifier unit/speakers but their own don't seem that bad. Have refused to pay for Premium Spotify to use with it though, that's my main downside.

We have a sort of music server too, made life easier.

re: those people looking to integrate music and tv -- Sonos does have a soundbar (not cheap) that'll take audio from your TV and distribute it to other Sonos components, and you can set it up with a couple of the small Play:1 speakers and a sub if you want 5.1 surround. If your TV or set top box supports Spotify and something like Plex for local files you're all set (or just use your phone to control music if you don't care about a unified interface).

I look at how much it would cost to deck out our place with Sonos speakers and I look at my kids and think "I would like to feed and clothe these guys without dipping into their college fund"

I'm not sure it's necessary to deck out the place with speakers - an amp and a set of stereo speakers in the living room is great! Want sound ind more rooms? Turn it up!

Buy cheap active speakers for kids' computers - you don't need to be able to synchronize playback between rooms. It's more like a fun luxury.

well my kids aren't 2 yet so the closest they will be coming to getting computer speakers is if we buy some squeaky toy speakers

what i am really looking for is the following:
- no wires
- can stream music from spotify tablet or laptop
- sounds nice in my living room (~30m^2)

would 2x play:1's do the job?

having speakers in more rooms not really important to me. is sonos still the best fit?

If that's all you need then £30 Chromecast audio should do the job? Assuming you have speakers already, that is.

Cheap one-room solution: find a used Phillips Streamium player. They're around and they're pretty good, even if Phillips got out of the game a couple years ago.

all these years and that $35 little Google Chromecast audio is still working for me

they don't make 'em like that any more!

forgot to turn off auto update, so let's see if it's fixed my main and critical gripe of saying it can't find any speakers when you open the app... and that's a nope.

reading about the wiim and now starting to regret the money i have punted sonos' way.

the missing "add to queue" option is very strange. a page says it's coming back in a future update to this update, but how can you push a version without it? I also miss the volume numbers for precisely setting the volume of sleep noise or music in the kids' room. Suppose I mostly use the spotify app anyhow.

there's some good discussion of alternatives to Sonos on this thread:

Maintaining a Digital Music Collection

There’s an option for “Save to Sonos Favorites” (for a playlist, track, or album); and when you try it, it just says “Something went wrong. Try again.”(??)

reading about the wiim and now starting to regret the money i have punted sonos' way.

I hear you - the trigger for rebuilding was wanting to bring my vinyl back to life and the sonos sunk cost thing pulled me towards a sonos amp or sonos port for a bit of my research but nah - they're still very respectable streaming speakers to have around the house but I'm happier out.

wow.the previous app would eventually pick up the speakers if you left it on for a bit or restarted a few times. the new one doesn't, and can't find any products if I try and set up a new system.

it's found them now. then loses and finds them again every time I reopen.

the sonos experience in a nutshell

just had a message from a fellow Sonos user via Twitter :

"Don’t upgrade to the new Sonos app!
Nothing works any more
"

hope others here are not suffering as badly as this guy is ..

good god the new app is utter dogshit. how could they make something already quite bad worse

it seems i was forced to update to the new sonos app later than most people were, but i've finally been forced to update and, good god, this is by far the biggest fuck-you sonos has ever fucked me with (and there was a lot of comopetition).

in addition to everything else that's bonkers about this update, am i missing something or can i no longer create a playlist?

yeah, i have heard a lot from my friend re how bad this has been.
the sonos forums are just full of chaos and anger.

i refused to update and at some point it told me my library wasn't available anymore and that i needed to update to fix that
i said fuck that and just listened to radio and bandcamp - and now the library is magically back

between Spotify and sonos im kinda getting over the idea of listening to music at all anymore tbh

I splurged on the Sonos Ace headphones – my old pair died, I've never owned a "really nice" pair of headphones, and there was a discount available to me.

How are they so far?

I like them... the sound is nice, and the settings can be adjusted thru the Sonos app – even when they're paired with a different device – or by fiddling with the side button. The app has an EQ with three sliders, which suits me fine. Apparently they'll do the Sonos Wifi thing only with a soundbar (which I don't have), so for my purposes they just work like standard headphones.

The pads are the kind that fully enclose your ears, which I find a little weird (my last pair sort of rested on top of my ears). They're metal but lightweight, and seem nicely put together.

Surprising so many people use the Sonos app. I've had Sonos for years and exclusively use Apple Music app to control it. Works fine.

Opposite for me; I’m always surprised to see how many people buy Sonos speakers only to use Airplay instead of the app! Getting away from all of the limitations of Airplay was one of the primary reasons I went with Sonos.

sonos earphones don’t integrate with rest of your sonos system so you can’t hand off from one to another ?

Apparently they couldn't build wifi into them without killing the battery life. So it's kinda just like buying whatever other pricey wireless headphones?

Yeah you can hand off TV audio from your soundbar, but that’s it for now. Supposedly the soundbar connection does use WiFi though, so there’s speculation that there could potentially be more integration with the system down the line.

I primarily use the Sonos app to connect my turntable to my Sonos speakers, which is run through a Connect. The app redesign unfortunately makes this completely unintuitive and pushes streaming apps to the forefront.

Getting away from all of the limitations of Airplay was one of the primary reasons I went with Sonos.

Hmmm...what are the limitations? Maybe I should move to the app.

Well the app sucks now so maybe wait a few months

I still use an old-ass Sonos speaker with the old-ass android app, works fine most of the time. I mean sometimes it stops working entirely but then it's time to put on a record.

Anyone use the Windows desktop app? Do the recent updates cripple it as much as the mobile app? I've been scared to update mine since it seems to be the only way to properly manage my queue.

for some reason the app likes to lose track of my Amp (I've got an Amp driving my old speakers connected to my tv) which sometimes knocks out the surround sound (two Play:1 speakers) on the other side of the room. so the app lets me stream directly to those and a couple other speakers I have but the room's no longer coordinated

might be a me problem. restarting my router makes everything speak again so it might be forgetting how to route between the wired device and the wifi ones

Well the app sucks now so maybe wait a few months

yeah they REALLY fucked it up. I want to beat up everybody who was at the meeting where they ok'd it

Hmmm...what are the limitations? Maybe I should move to the app

Depending on how you use the system, Airplay might not be a limitation for you. Like if it’s just you using it, Airplay might be fine, or if you’re Airplaying from a computer rather than a phone. The big thing for me is that when you use the app the speakers themselves are handling the streaming, rather than your phone pulling the stream and then sending it to the speakers. With the app your phone is basically just a remote control for the streamer rather than being the streamer itself. For family use especially this makes some things possible that you can’t easily do with Airplay:

- At night I can start a stream of rain sounds in one kid’s room, white noise in another kid’s room, and music in my room.

- My wife and I are often listening to music together; either one of us can drop a song that we suddenly want to hear into the queue from our own devices without interrupting the rest of the queue.

- If I start playing music in the morning that the family is listening to I can leave home with my phone to pick up breakfast without the music being interrupted. Or during a party I can walk out of WiFi range in the yard and the music doesn’t stop.

- Any one of us can adjust the volume of the room that we’re in regardless of who started the stream.

That stuff is useful for me on pretty much a daily basis, but probably doesn’t matter for a lot of people. Other perks are not using up phone battery power, and Apple Music streams lossless through the app which Airplay can’t do (though I think it might be getting that in iOS 18 later this year?). But I should add that I still have the older S2 app on my phone which has always worked great for me; my wife updated to the new app and as DJP said it’s got some issues.

I primarily use the Sonos app to connect my turntable to my Sonos speakers, which is run through a Connect. The app redesign unfortunately makes this completely unintuitive and pushes streaming apps to the forefront.

Yeah they dropped the Autoplay option from the Connect input settings in the new app. Supposedly it’s on the list of things that will be coming back in an update and that should make it much easier.

The new app must be a crazy fucking refactor if they can't reuse an autoplay function

but detecting nonzero voltage on a line-in and switching that speaker on doesn't seem to involve "new APIs"