Are you cool with forks making Spotify playlists out of every rolling thread without permission?

pottery

― iatee, Thursday, 4 February 2016 05:38 (5 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Classic ref btw

i dont do spotify cos i have an archive full of undiscovered gems i need to listen to,
however, i have absolutely no problem with forks, or glenn, doing their thing on ilm.

xp So those people wouldn't have entered the threads anyway and probably won't listen to a playlist either, but might, possibly. And if they do, if this has any affect on rolling threads, I would assume making it easier for people to hear what's being discussed would bring more people IN, not the other way around. I know some people face their browsers crashing if they try opening up an entire thread of embeds.

Some of you might not like listening to a playlist of music and that's great, but it's convenient for many and an obvious way to discover new sounds. But, ok, this impossibly grouchy attitude is sure to make the act of sharing music more joyful! And accusations of disturbing the holy bond of posters in certain threads and their particular ritual of sharing music will not at all make it scarier to join the clique!

The idea of someone who would potentially contribute to a thread skipping that because of a playlist is to me absurd and I don't believe it's ever applied to anyone.

I don't know if I've ever contributed to a rolling thread but I've been using them to check things out for years.

Exactly.

I'm still going through the ILM 2015 mega-playlist and you could argue this is even "lazier" in that it theoretically pulls all the 'best' stuff from the pigeonhole playlists.

ILM has perhaps plateaued or matured in terms of curation or gatekeeping - whether it's thru YouTube or Spotify or something else doesn't matter. Before these things existed people would scan threads and download whatever people were recommending - with no guarantee of contributing to any discussion on it.

10+ years ago there were things like the CD-Rs per year, Rough Guides To...now we have more easily assembled and shared playlists and I appreciate that to death because of what it took to get there. With every development someone complains it's now too easy or too unfair. All Spotify and ppl like forks and glenn do is change how it's done - eradicating old problems but introducing some new ones in their place. I used to feel overwhelmed going into the biggest HMV stores, now I have 100+ playlists I'd like to hear (when I'm not doing my own...).

The thing is that Youtube links have a tendency to expire pretty quickly, go back to a rolling thread from a year or two back and see how many of the links now go nowhere, and people posting on rolling threads don't always put a title or artist name in there when they post. Spotify's availability is patchy, especially in eg dance music, but these playlists are pretty useful nonetheless.

feel like it's just giving into the anti-rolling thread whingers and allowing them a means to bypass actually engaging with genre threads and their regulars, genre discussions, the nitty-gritty of what's actually changing or going on. analogous to the wider trend of plucking some cool sound you heard on the internet out of its context and then abdicating any need to learn about that context bc "convenience" "spoonfeeding" whatever. none of the rolling threads move especially fast these days and if you have so little interest in house or r&b or afropop or whatever that you can't even bring yourself to read them...i mean it doesn't matter how little you know, i'm a complete novice/dilettante in the afropop thread but the absolute least i can do when i catch up is to post about what i like and why i like it, not scurry off to the safety bubble of a spotify playlist

I find Doglatinesque discourse blagging as annoying as the next man, but even assuming there's a sufficient contingent of people like that, they wouldn't be engaging in the first place anyway. Some rolling threads are pretty good in terms of the discursive element, others are woeful. In general I feel like there's a lot more music and a lot less insight on a lot of rolling threads these days, especially compared to, say, the bobbins threads from 10 years ago, and everything being on Youtube is a big part of that. But honestly using words like spoonfeeding is projecting a lot. Like, YOU DON'T KNOW how much effort people are otherwise putting in to understand the genre. I regularly use playlists as a jumping off point, exploring other bits of the artist's discography or related compilations or whatever. They're an enhancement, not a substitute.

In any case, 'effort' (in terms of music discovery at least) is pretty fucking overrated. The effort should be in the listening and the understanding, how you come across it is irrelevant. It's not as if listening to a few Youtube embeds or a podcast or radio show once a week makes you some kind of supreme crate digger, and it won't guarantee you have more of interest to say at the end of it. Valuing one form of digital access above another is essentially the techier equivalent of those middle aged bores who think that not having to get a bus to an Our Price means that young people don't sufficiently appreciate music.

FYI let the record state the Benny B's regular genre mixes are ILM's single greatest resource and possibly its most unappreciated.

matt dc saving all his best posts for his erstwhile fellow site mods huh

i cry nepotism

Nashwan's post goes back to my earlier point that ILM was at its peak in terms of discussion and engagement in the post-Soulseek, pre-Youtube era, where everything in theory accessible but also just inaccessible enough. It meant that people could consume huge amounts of music, but at the same time actually had to make an effort to describe a record, and to think about why people might love it, or go out and seek something out on the basis of a description alone. The difference between this thread and the 2015 bobbins thread is vast.

The afrobeats thread is often one of the best for talking about changing scene dynamics, and wider political issues around the music, but we're in early February and there are already nearly 50 links in there. That's brilliant, there's a shitload of great music in there, but very little actual discussion.

Clicking through hundreds of Youtube embeds is, for me at least, one of the least enjoyable ways to listen to music, so anything that bundles enough of it up for listening on my commute is good with me.

i guess people forget that record stores these days have websites with sound clips and stuff

get the fuck over yourself if you have a problem with this

Basically any argument that festishizes the mode of discovery and makes a direct connection with level of passion/engagement is probably bullshit.

I hate Spotify, I hate the Spotify playlists (and fwiw I generally dislike the rolling threads). I'm voting 'no.'

I feel excluded from the threads that have Spotify playlists because of my opposition to streaming services that rip off artists, and I certainly don't like the idea of checking my conscience at the door and becoming part of what I see is the problem just to participate in a thread. Sorry if that sounds sanctimonious, it's just how I feel about it.

quite possibly the dumbest thing I have ever read on ilx

A bus to Our Price? In my day we'd pass round the score carved on a block of cheese and you'd just have to hope the rats hadn't eaten all the good bits by the time it got to your turn.

i don't listen to the playlists, i don't use spotify, i couldn't give a shit if he stopped doing the playlists tomorrow. but ffs forks is a saint who cares so much about music and does so much for this board. how can anyone in good conscience want to shit on his little playlist thing? ilx is public. youtube is public. spotify is public, QED. leave forks alone

(I suppose the exception to my rule is actual societal engagement and discovery - if you're going to deep tech nights every week then your engagement with the music and the culture is likely to be greater than someone checking a rolling thread or listening to a radio show or playlist. But not everyone has the ability to do that, and one form of solitary engagement is much the same as the rest as far as I'm concerned. Box tickers tend to be box tickers however they approach the music, and passionate partisans the same.)

idk who jimmy dyspeptic wine is but Matt p you are being a fucking nasty self righteous dick to forks about this and it's not cool

I don't use Spotify but honestly, how could this be a bad thing?

xp and what flops said.

I'm against it, fuck Spotify and fuck sending them business

someone who has literally posted thousands of YouTube embeds to ilx

fuck you, Shakey

this poll should be locked imo

wtf @ being excluded from thread because you're not using spotify? nothing changes in the rolling threads because of forks, everyone is still free to post and talk and listen. I didn't have spotify until a couple weeks ago and that never prevented me from posting in these threads, reading what people had to say, listening via bandcamp or youtube or whatever else I could find. Forks coming in and collecting stuff doesn't remove anything from the thread.

forks knows way more about the ins and outs of the music industry than any of you blowhard armchair critics, and has shown through 15 years of being part of our community to be someone who cares deeply about the ethics of the music industry. I'm sure he has solid reasons and a clear conscience, despite the complexity of the issue. the reflexive stupidity of saying 'ban him' because you have some half baked idea about how a company is bad is just embarrassing. so sad that this is even a half-serious discussion on this board

last i checked this was a public message board- did that change at some point?

wait hold the presses an indie fan doesn't care about politics

omg you are such a loser dude

forks yesterday

http://buibolg.ie/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/3.5.a-butterfly-collector-small.jpg

Yeah, now we're a wholly-owned subsidiary of the Spotify Corp. Thanks a lot, forks!

xxp

Holy fucking shit that stuff about baking Glenn is out of line and should be removed by a mod you fucking masniacs

forks i have no beef with you and ultimately i'm not hugely concerned about issues of ownership around words on the internet but

there is maybe something a /shade/ careless about co-opting people into a private game gone public without some kind of "asking if they're OK with it first" approach. imo

obv tho this is the internet so my moral reservation is tempered with caution, and is coloured by my general antagonism to aggregation of data/transfiguration of cultural product into same

also, a lot of the least helpful posts on this thread have not been from yourself or matt but from people dorkishly refusing to accept that anybody might have qualms about their idea of fun

noodles you are a smart dude who can intellowank yourself into some truly idiotic corners at times, and this is one of those times. this thread should be locked and everyone involved should apologize to forks. forks, I love you and I'm sorry this happened

Use Spotify or don't. No need to act like a sanctimonious nit about how other people consume music.

ILX Premium to generate a playlist for each thread on the right hand side of the window.

ok not wanting to be a dick but i'm Not A Fan either. i don't think spotify is ethically sound but it'd be hypocritical of me to hammer that point home so

- up to forks if he wants to do this for himself + i recognise it's handy for many others but it feels so much like ILX Sponsored By Spotify, it's v hard to ignore! especially when there are these regular bot-like bumps which are v disappointing when you click on a thread hoping for discussion or insight

- feel like it's just giving into the anti-rolling thread whingers and allowing them a means to bypass actually engaging with genre threads and their regulars, genre discussions, the nitty-gritty of what's actually changing or going on. analogous to the wider trend of plucking some cool sound you heard on the internet out of its context and then abdicating any need to learn about that context bc "convenience" "spoonfeeding" whatever. none of the rolling threads move especially fast these days and if you have so little interest in house or r&b or afropop or whatever that you can't even bring yourself to read them...i mean it doesn't matter how little you know, i'm a complete novice/dilettante in the afropop thread but the absolute least i can do when i catch up is to post about what i like and why i like it, not scurry off to the safety bubble of a spotify playlist

someone spends hours does something nice and offers it to you for free. instead of saying 'thanks, I'm good, that is very generous of you' you say 'ew no don't offer it to other people you are spoon feeding them.' that's so unconscionably rude lex

Suggest not locking this thread but subjecting tastelessness to a lifetime ban if votes for "not" < 10%.

I can't even believe forks calmly responded to every moronic objection itt with rational logical arguments. like, that's how good of a guy he is! shame on you all for even making him take time out of his life to type that shit up. and yeah, Matt DC otm but this argument doesn't even deserve that kind of level headed reasoning. just so, so shitty to even begin this thread. shame on you

I don't think the thread should be locked. It's probably better to let everybody talk it out than to just shut down the discussion.

Οὖτις got schooled on who Glenn was and offered to fp himself, which is probably as close to an apology as we'll probably get. It's also one of my absolute favorite things when old school posters don't recognize other old school posters and this has to set some kind of all-time record for that.

Forks is a level-headed dude and I'm sure this is rolling off him like water off a duck's back.

I voted no because I would rather forks make Apple Music playlists for me, since I do not use Spotify.

forks shouldn't have to have this roll off his back, the threadstarter and naysayers should be water cannoned in the nuts

I'm not sure the original post really merits the level of huffy outrage on display here.

I'll email stet and see about getting that option added to the mod functions list. Until then, we're all stuck with each other.

idk man it's just the principle of it

xp

I like that the links disappear, things waft in and out like kestrels in the valley

I don't think I can see the first post or who started the poll cause I'm on zing but the tenor of some of the later posts and the nature of the objection are extremely disrespectful imo

unfortunately being on zing also means I can't fp

To document is to kill, to feel is to live, as the old sign down by the quarry used to say before the local kids spraypainted "ADEYZ LIFE" over it

fwiw i really like the techno tracks Matt p posts on the bobbins threads (I even enjoyed his deep house mix this morning!) and hopes he gets over this fit and continues to do so

Everything dies eventually.

i think it's always worth considering what matt p says as he is a smart, principled and numerously deprivileged individual - so while i am on forks' side here, and am grateful for his enormous effort in helping to expand our engagement with music, i wouldn't simply silence the threadstarter - forks himself has engaged with him, so i don't see why the rest of us shouldn't