Are you cool with forks making Spotify playlists out of every rolling thread without permission?

get the fuck over yourself if you have a problem with this

Basically any argument that festishizes the mode of discovery and makes a direct connection with level of passion/engagement is probably bullshit.

I hate Spotify, I hate the Spotify playlists (and fwiw I generally dislike the rolling threads). I'm voting 'no.'

I feel excluded from the threads that have Spotify playlists because of my opposition to streaming services that rip off artists, and I certainly don't like the idea of checking my conscience at the door and becoming part of what I see is the problem just to participate in a thread. Sorry if that sounds sanctimonious, it's just how I feel about it.

quite possibly the dumbest thing I have ever read on ilx

A bus to Our Price? In my day we'd pass round the score carved on a block of cheese and you'd just have to hope the rats hadn't eaten all the good bits by the time it got to your turn.

i don't listen to the playlists, i don't use spotify, i couldn't give a shit if he stopped doing the playlists tomorrow. but ffs forks is a saint who cares so much about music and does so much for this board. how can anyone in good conscience want to shit on his little playlist thing? ilx is public. youtube is public. spotify is public, QED. leave forks alone

(I suppose the exception to my rule is actual societal engagement and discovery - if you're going to deep tech nights every week then your engagement with the music and the culture is likely to be greater than someone checking a rolling thread or listening to a radio show or playlist. But not everyone has the ability to do that, and one form of solitary engagement is much the same as the rest as far as I'm concerned. Box tickers tend to be box tickers however they approach the music, and passionate partisans the same.)

idk who jimmy dyspeptic wine is but Matt p you are being a fucking nasty self righteous dick to forks about this and it's not cool

I don't use Spotify but honestly, how could this be a bad thing?

xp and what flops said.

I'm against it, fuck Spotify and fuck sending them business

someone who has literally posted thousands of YouTube embeds to ilx

fuck you, Shakey

this poll should be locked imo

wtf @ being excluded from thread because you're not using spotify? nothing changes in the rolling threads because of forks, everyone is still free to post and talk and listen. I didn't have spotify until a couple weeks ago and that never prevented me from posting in these threads, reading what people had to say, listening via bandcamp or youtube or whatever else I could find. Forks coming in and collecting stuff doesn't remove anything from the thread.

forks knows way more about the ins and outs of the music industry than any of you blowhard armchair critics, and has shown through 15 years of being part of our community to be someone who cares deeply about the ethics of the music industry. I'm sure he has solid reasons and a clear conscience, despite the complexity of the issue. the reflexive stupidity of saying 'ban him' because you have some half baked idea about how a company is bad is just embarrassing. so sad that this is even a half-serious discussion on this board

last i checked this was a public message board- did that change at some point?

wait hold the presses an indie fan doesn't care about politics

omg you are such a loser dude

forks yesterday

http://buibolg.ie/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/3.5.a-butterfly-collector-small.jpg

Yeah, now we're a wholly-owned subsidiary of the Spotify Corp. Thanks a lot, forks!

xxp

Holy fucking shit that stuff about baking Glenn is out of line and should be removed by a mod you fucking masniacs

forks i have no beef with you and ultimately i'm not hugely concerned about issues of ownership around words on the internet but

there is maybe something a /shade/ careless about co-opting people into a private game gone public without some kind of "asking if they're OK with it first" approach. imo

obv tho this is the internet so my moral reservation is tempered with caution, and is coloured by my general antagonism to aggregation of data/transfiguration of cultural product into same

also, a lot of the least helpful posts on this thread have not been from yourself or matt but from people dorkishly refusing to accept that anybody might have qualms about their idea of fun

noodles you are a smart dude who can intellowank yourself into some truly idiotic corners at times, and this is one of those times. this thread should be locked and everyone involved should apologize to forks. forks, I love you and I'm sorry this happened

Use Spotify or don't. No need to act like a sanctimonious nit about how other people consume music.

ILX Premium to generate a playlist for each thread on the right hand side of the window.

ok not wanting to be a dick but i'm Not A Fan either. i don't think spotify is ethically sound but it'd be hypocritical of me to hammer that point home so

- up to forks if he wants to do this for himself + i recognise it's handy for many others but it feels so much like ILX Sponsored By Spotify, it's v hard to ignore! especially when there are these regular bot-like bumps which are v disappointing when you click on a thread hoping for discussion or insight

- feel like it's just giving into the anti-rolling thread whingers and allowing them a means to bypass actually engaging with genre threads and their regulars, genre discussions, the nitty-gritty of what's actually changing or going on. analogous to the wider trend of plucking some cool sound you heard on the internet out of its context and then abdicating any need to learn about that context bc "convenience" "spoonfeeding" whatever. none of the rolling threads move especially fast these days and if you have so little interest in house or r&b or afropop or whatever that you can't even bring yourself to read them...i mean it doesn't matter how little you know, i'm a complete novice/dilettante in the afropop thread but the absolute least i can do when i catch up is to post about what i like and why i like it, not scurry off to the safety bubble of a spotify playlist

someone spends hours does something nice and offers it to you for free. instead of saying 'thanks, I'm good, that is very generous of you' you say 'ew no don't offer it to other people you are spoon feeding them.' that's so unconscionably rude lex

Suggest not locking this thread but subjecting tastelessness to a lifetime ban if votes for "not" < 10%.

I can't even believe forks calmly responded to every moronic objection itt with rational logical arguments. like, that's how good of a guy he is! shame on you all for even making him take time out of his life to type that shit up. and yeah, Matt DC otm but this argument doesn't even deserve that kind of level headed reasoning. just so, so shitty to even begin this thread. shame on you

I don't think the thread should be locked. It's probably better to let everybody talk it out than to just shut down the discussion.

Οὖτις got schooled on who Glenn was and offered to fp himself, which is probably as close to an apology as we'll probably get. It's also one of my absolute favorite things when old school posters don't recognize other old school posters and this has to set some kind of all-time record for that.

Forks is a level-headed dude and I'm sure this is rolling off him like water off a duck's back.

I voted no because I would rather forks make Apple Music playlists for me, since I do not use Spotify.

forks shouldn't have to have this roll off his back, the threadstarter and naysayers should be water cannoned in the nuts

I'm not sure the original post really merits the level of huffy outrage on display here.

I'll email stet and see about getting that option added to the mod functions list. Until then, we're all stuck with each other.

idk man it's just the principle of it

xp

I like that the links disappear, things waft in and out like kestrels in the valley

I don't think I can see the first post or who started the poll cause I'm on zing but the tenor of some of the later posts and the nature of the objection are extremely disrespectful imo

unfortunately being on zing also means I can't fp

To document is to kill, to feel is to live, as the old sign down by the quarry used to say before the local kids spraypainted "ADEYZ LIFE" over it

fwiw i really like the techno tracks Matt p posts on the bobbins threads (I even enjoyed his deep house mix this morning!) and hopes he gets over this fit and continues to do so

Everything dies eventually.

i think it's always worth considering what matt p says as he is a smart, principled and numerously deprivileged individual - so while i am on forks' side here, and am grateful for his enormous effort in helping to expand our engagement with music, i wouldn't simply silence the threadstarter - forks himself has engaged with him, so i don't see why the rest of us shouldn't

I don't think I can see the first post or who started the poll cause I'm on zing but the tenor of some of the later posts and the nature of the objection are extremely disrespectful imo

― flopson, Thursday, February 4, 2016 8:17 AM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i'll give you one guess

forks i have no beef with you and ultimately i'm not hugely concerned about issues of ownership around words on the internet but

there is maybe something a shade careless about co-opting people into a private game gone public without some kind of "asking if they're OK with it first" approach. imo

obv tho this is the internet so my moral reservation is tempered with caution, and is coloured by my general antagonism to aggregation of data/transfiguration of cultural product into same

also, a lot of the least helpful posts on this thread have not been from yourself or matt but from people dorkishly refusing to accept that anybody might have qualms about their idea of fun

― Chikan wa akan de. Zettai akan de. (Noodle Vague), Thursday, February 4, 2016 7:20 AM (5 hours ago)

though obviously share 'antagonism to aggregation of data/transfiguration of cultural product' don't think the ethical claims quite work

the value of the metadata.....this probably is of very negligible value to the company given minor status of ilx in the grand scheme of things; neither being sufficiently large in aggregate, nor sufficiently coherent in authorship (some experts, insofar as they exist, a lot of random nonexperts)

the co-option argument....even if naming a track creates some form of interest in that datum, then anyone posting to an aggregate thread rather than 'x's list of extraordinary reggae tracks' really disclaims individual interest in favour of the collective; if ilx considered collective and indivisble author, then the consumer is the author

if there were a small enough discrete group of people to ask the question 'do you mind' then that might be reasonable, but what forks is doing depends on this metadata being from a large, diffuse group of people, so practically impossible

I love Matt he is just massively wrong and bad in this instance. I hold no grudge but imo he should apologize to forks.

I don't think this is something that even a board consensus of 'no' should be allowed to resolve, it's just like, idk it's not even up for discussion because there is no discussion. we are a community of internet music nerds that linked to blogs that didn't pay musicians now we link to youtubes that don't pay musicians, now someone who links youtubes wants to prevent sumone from linking to a thing that pays labels who in turn don't pay musicians enough? and claims some moral ground for it? fuck that. I hate the hamfisted oneupmanny moral logic but also just I think it's so mean to forks to try and turn the community against his benevolent and purely voluntary project, and on top of it to say mean things to him. and the 'let's think about it' chinstrokers who don't see this for what it is, and on top of it make aggro snarky posts. Idk this is a community and that's just not cool

'a smart, principled and numerously deprivileged individual'

are you sure you're not describing an articulate rapper here?

to quote an inarticulate rapper, what you lookin at you lit-tul rich boy?

flopson vm otm itt

xp

this is war

forks is good people as far as I'm concerned, as is flopson, so i would hate for my thinking out loud - and quite possibly being wrong - about different ways of contextualizing experiences of music to be seen as being disrespectful, never mind offensive.

i have a minor niggle about taking from a conversation in one place and repurposing some of it in another. it's probably more of an intellowank niggle than a genuine sense of wrong-doing, but i felt more honest sharing it than saying nothing

spotify is awesome btw everyone should use spotify this is my official endorsement of spotify

(my apologies for not knowing about the name change. also, what everyone else said about glenn's and forks's contributions to the board and the music business.)

NV- I'm sure there was nothing wrong with ur post itt + in general love the intellowank, just felt oddly roused by this CF out of a sense that forks is at times unduly bullied on the board for being nothing but an earnest lover of music and the rank stench of Matt's argument and felt I had to draw a line in the sand