Are you cool with forks making Spotify playlists out of every rolling thread without permission?

forks, how much money are you getting from Goldman Sachs?

I'm cool with forks' work, and I'd be cool with anybody else doing similar work in any other listening format. I can understand the idea of objecting to people posting links to non-artist-authorized, non-royalty-paying versions of the music people are discussing. Spotify links are, by nature, artist-authorized and royalty-paying. YouTube and Soundcloud links are sometimes authorized and paying, and sometimes not. So if you're posting YouTube links and objecting to Spotify links, I think you might be misunderstanding how one or both of these systems operate.

I don't think streaming is bad for music. My opinion on this topic is not a result of my working (now) at Spotify, but the fact that I continue to work at Spotify is a result of my opinion that doing so is pro-music not anti-music. And while my opinion on this topic has no more or less moral weight than anybody else's, it is at least based on more knowledge about how streaming works than the average person who doesn't work for a streaming service or a distributor or label.

As others have pointed out, I have been on ILM for a long time. I'm not here as a Spotify sales rep, and nobody at Spotify tells me what to say or not say here. I participate in the Spotify-specific thread because a) it's interesting to me, and b) I sometimes can add actual information to discussions that would otherwise be purely speculative or actively misinformed, and c) Spotify is not an anonymous borg, it's a relatively small set of actual humans doing actual things, and it seems like in general we're all better off if people who work at companies continue acting like people.

For me, personally, ILM ranges cheerfully from incredibly useful to bafflingly toxic. Personally, I wish everybody used real names and there were no polls and nobody ever tried to talk somebody else out of loving something they love. But this set includes not using real names, and polls, and somehow even trying to talk people out of loving things they love.

here here

or hear hear even

<3 flopson putting everything on blast

peace to forks a great dude

never ban glenn

Nobody's really suggesting Glenn is banned

Someone did! Also someone made the joke 'glenn banzig', which I feel should have got more applause. Also someone said "we wouldn't stand for it if other companies had representatives here" (or something along those lines)... but we do. We have people who work for G4wker, V1ce, P1tchfork (not sure why I'm googleproofing but let's go with it). We have people who talk about their work and the different perspectives it gives them all the time.

I don't even use my real name at work.

But my playlists are impeccable.

Of course it's fine for forks to do that. This is ridiculous.

Well, except the ones that were published publicly by accident. I hate how Spotify makes it so hard to keep those in line! Glenn, help me out, my account number is 289304 and my credit card number is the one with 694 on the back.

Someone did

or to put it another way... nobody did

but seriously nobody else is taking that suggestion seriously

first met forks ~11 years ago at a large ilx gathering at a bar. he brought along a sizable box of CDs -- promos from his job, maybe some mixes, i don't remember for sure. (it was actually slightly weird.) between that, and his former blog, his helping ilxors find music work/internships, his decade-plus of posts, and his palpable excitement about music and introducing ppl to it . . . flopsy otm

He walked it back, tbf, but:

I also think it's creepy that we have our own Spotify sales rep now, dude should be banned

― Οὖτις, Wednesday, February 3, 2016 7:41 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Anyone who's getting paid to work at a job is compromised and impure and should be lifetime banned imo.

I found that post, I was making a joke about his username being "nobody"

& yeah, one poster suggesting it & then immediately retracting = we do not need to be talking about this as a thing that will ever happen

Nobody's on first.

he brought along a sizable box of CDs -- promos from his job, maybe some mixes, i don't remember for sure. (it was actually slightly weird.)

tbf i was already pretty well hammered by the time you arrived

kinda like forks' pottery! (you make pottery with a hammer, right?)

I will be disappointed if this thing ends in a kickstarter for forks' new kiln and not a script called forks.py

hope no one minds but I've turned this thread into some natty wallpaper for my arbeitszimmer

i work for a video game studio and run coint and plick, i should probably be banned from ilx too right? fuck everyone

<3 you forks, <3 you glenn, could someone make a fucking list of permalinks to the shittiest posts on this thread so i can just FP them all at once?

i voted no for the lulz

Are you cool with forks making Spotify playlists out of every rolling thread without permission?

which is probably as close to an apology as we'll probably get.

I did apologize, read upthread.

also lol wins you get a gold star sticker

Just a bit of fun, so let's be cool

I am sorry as well, Οὖτις.

fight the real enemy (pre-cover albums)

lol @ "numerously deprivileged individual"

"check out our new curated playlists, What's Next In Fruity Swag Goon Music 2016 - EDITOR'S PICKS!!!" ...?

They do do this fwiw. See my last post on the Spotify thread re: stealing my friends' online radio station playlists.

― Οὖτις, Wednesday, February 3, 2016 10:16 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Just to both fulfill the expectation that I always defend Spotify AND demonstrate my point about adding actual information: the "They" in the SomaFM case was random Spotify users, not anybody who works for Spotify, and thus exactly not an example of what you claim...

i hold no grudges against anyone itt but flopson relentlessly otm throughout imo

also to respond to this lex post:

feel like it's just giving into the anti-rolling thread whingers and allowing them a means to bypass actually engaging with genre threads and their regulars, genre discussions, the nitty-gritty of what's actually changing or going on. analogous to the wider trend of plucking some cool sound you heard on the internet out of its context and then abdicating any need to learn about that context bc "convenience" "spoonfeeding" whatever. none of the rolling threads move especially fast these days and if you have so little interest in house or r&b or afropop or whatever that you can't even bring yourself to read them...i mean it doesn't matter how little you know, i'm a complete novice/dilettante in the afropop thread but the absolute least i can do when i catch up is to post about what i like and why i like it, not scurry off to the safety bubble of a spotify playlist

the #1 (and prob exclusive) obstacle preventing me from engaging w/ rolling threads is the shitty functionality brought on by endless youtube embeds. it slows my browser down, sometimes makes it crash, it super fucking clunky when i listen to something and then try to respond to, and so many links are dead with months anyways.

dr casino very much otm here too

i mean... the rolling threads are basically wall-to-wall youtube embeds right? like people have already provided a one-stop shop for listening to the music they recommend... i'm not sure i get why that same lineup being transposed to some other format is suddenly weird and makes you not want to post things. is it that it divorces the songs from who picked them and makes the whole thing more anonymous/less visibly a collective effort? i don't really hang out on rolling threads tbh but i gather that those who do kinda "know" each other's tastes, "oh man, that is such a 'lex' song" or whatever... and i could see where making it easy to get the music but not the people/conversation might rub someone the wrong way...?

so... given the youtube thing - --- while i would believe that spotify is more problematic or evil than youtube, it's not like without the forks playlists, the music would only be heard in some kind of unmediated free-love manner. also all those embeds tend to make it impossible to load the threads or conveniently listen to the music IME. like you really have to perch at the computer, daintily click play on a single youtube embed, sit there and listen to it and consider your response (or if you liked the song, painstakingly save it to your itunes wishlist [is that a thing?] or more likely, your own spotify playlist) before scrolling down to click play on the next single youtube embed.... seems like just getting them into your regular listening regime makes a fuck of a lot more sense. also for those who make EOY ballots or just generally want to stay current with things, seems like a massive massive resource. i'm kind of a curmudgeon and generally just wait for the EOY results to catch up on what i should have been adding to my playlists all year but maybe this will change.

typed most of that before forks's explanatory post. hrm. i guess it makes a LITTLE more sense to me now. like i don't want to dismiss people having misgivings or ambivalent feelings even though the wording of some of their reactions is kinda offputting to me. hmm.

― the thirteenth floorior (Doctor Casino), Wednesday, February 3, 2016 8:35 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

all in all i v much appreciate the work forks has done w/ these playlists, thank you forks

Just to be clear I voted Not because I thought this was a joke thread and it seems some of you are actually taking it serious.

the "They" in the SomaFM case was random Spotify users, not anybody who works for Spotify, and thus exactly not an example of what you claim...

take it up with Rusty. the fact is Spotify is making money off of them while SomaFM is getting fucked out of money for the very same content due to recent royalty rulings the benefit Spotify and screw internet radio providers.

the = that

Feel like Lex's big victory wrt influencing ILM's taste was starting that Wut thread which consequently propelled the track to the top of the EOY poll. Now imagine he'd buried it several months deep in 'Rolling dance partisans 2010' or whatever. Rolling threads can be useful but they're no substitute for genuinely enthused threads on individual songs.

The best rolling threads tend to be ones that stem from discussions on one particular tune - like the entire UK funky thread growing out of one person ripping for Do You Mind.

is this a bad time to reveal that I am David Geffen?

I thought you were Damo Suzuki

Can't he be both? It's the 21st Century ffs.

As a total side comment/pro tip, the best approach to functionality in Youtube-heavy threads is to turn off "display images" in your preferences while you're browsing that particular thread

I feel like copy/pasting this entire thread to the LOLZ thread.

lol @ "numerously deprivileged individual"

― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, 4 February 2016 17:33 (17 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Certainly the worst genuinely-held opinion posited itt

cryptosicko i've had just about enough of your taking our hard-worked-upon commentary on this topic and listing it gutlessly for some lolz thread. i jsut don't get people who get their lolz from that thread, they lose the context and just have joekz spoonfed to them
xp

we're prob not deprivileged enough yet to appreciate it xp

Just a bit of fun, so let's be cool

ty for this

http://www.amazon.com/Anything-collection-Reddits-best-Volume/dp/0692582266

omg ahahahhahaahahahahahahahaha

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truly the impact of Wut has been felt through the years for us all.

i <3 lex and we overlap on taste as much or more than with most people (same for mattress, tbrr) but dude, your argument is based on an elitist "i understand how listening to music should be done" approach. None of us are doing it "wrong". We're all just listening. We all listen differently. Polarized dichotomies of Aristotelian TRUTH when it comes to means of engagement (and, god help us, perceived quality of art itself) are anathema to me and just about the worst thing about ILM.

Demanding that neophytes wade into notoriously partisan threads and voice their opinions is sometimes a good experience for all concerned. Other times, folks get browbeaten viciously. IIRC, deej went after you in the afrobeats thread when you (reasonably imo) said that you wanted to engage music in the genre mostly out of context as you didn't have the wherewithal to have an authentic on the ground relationship to it. In his opinion, you were doing it wrong. You thought you were doing it your way. We're all just doing it our way.

In short, we are not the most welcoming environment for lurkers! Folks notoriously love to start fights about dumb shit on ILM for the lulz (I had an example I was gonna use here but i forgot what it was...). Demanding that anyone who enjoys the music must engage here ignores the possibility that maybe the social stress of such interaction may not be healthy, maybe they're sharing the music with their IRL friends and significant others (I do!) or using the newly discovered music to help support the artists in other real world arenas (we both do!). And not to call out a guy's real name on an ilx beef thread when shit gets heated but aren't you a regularly published music critic? Your method of enjoying and engaging music is probably as far removed from that of a truly casual listener as you can get... and there's a lot more of those out there than there are music critics. Casual listeners deserve respect too!

And as per your note on my own listening methods: what is the Singles Jukebox, to take a for instance we've both written for, but "listening to music as data dump," albeit one that is curated by people you respect? What is working on assignment but splicing your own interests and your editor's data dump into monetizable considerations?