maybe my clam is just more toxic elitist partisan thinking.
― lute bro (brimstead), Thursday, 4 February 2016 21:13 (eight years ago) link
Thanking you for new dn.
― maybe my clam is just more toxic (Old Lunch), Thursday, 4 February 2016 21:14 (eight years ago) link
wtf kev keller
― Cosmic Slop, Thursday, 4 February 2016 21:15 (eight years ago) link
lol, happy to be of service xp
― lute bro (brimstead), Thursday, 4 February 2016 21:16 (eight years ago) link
xp to myself, i guess that was part of the objection, though, that it forcefully excludes non-spotify artists.
― lute bro (brimstead), Thursday, 4 February 2016 21:17 (eight years ago) link
least spotify friendly are the bobbins, hip hop and k-pop threads but none of them end up with less than a 70% hit ratio by year's end. Grime might be the least of the bunch, that's more like 50% or so.
― ulysses, Thursday, 4 February 2016 21:17 (eight years ago) link
for R&B, Country, Pop, Shambhala, Indie Rock, and Global it's more like 90%+
― ulysses, Thursday, 4 February 2016 21:19 (eight years ago) link
good job you motherfuckers ruined Black History Month already
― Hey (Extended Mix), Thursday, 4 February 2016 21:23 (eight years ago) link
wow 70% that's pretty good
― lute bro (brimstead), Thursday, 4 February 2016 21:26 (eight years ago) link
Forks' patience in digging up things in Cyrillic for the Eastern Europe thread is admirable.
― On a Raqqa tip (ShariVari), Thursday, 4 February 2016 21:27 (eight years ago) link
forks, are you doing this all manually? (apologies if methodology was already explained)
― Toof Seteltha (Sufjan Grafton), Thursday, 4 February 2016 21:37 (eight years ago) link
what i really like about this poll is the phrase "without permission," as though you have like a copyright in the posting of a youtube to a thread that can only be waived by your express agreement. i imagine it's hard af to make a living as a music writer and you gotta cling to whatever work product you can vaguely lay claim to, but come on, seriously?
― een, Thursday, 4 February 2016 21:39 (eight years ago) link
think it was more a sense of "we are doing this fun thing" vs "we are doing this fun thing that automatically benefits or contributes to a thing we don't like and that diminishes the fun for us" than a claim to property
― Toof Seteltha (Sufjan Grafton), Thursday, 4 February 2016 21:44 (eight years ago) link
xp to Sufjan: yeah, sadly I am.
― ulysses, Thursday, 4 February 2016 21:46 (eight years ago) link
I can take a crack at a python script if you're interested
― Toof Seteltha (Sufjan Grafton), Thursday, 4 February 2016 21:48 (eight years ago) link
I'm tech stupid but sure! The major problems with something that would just crawl the page and automatically add to a playlist are that people misspell names and song titles all the time. And so does Spotify! And any other service as well. I do a lot of hunting around to find things that don't show up where they should. But anything that would narrow the gap!
A plug-in or applet or whatever the fuck that could pull all the music on a page by name seems like something that would catch on big if it was done right. This could be the next hipster puppies ILX success story. Call it "forks" and buy me dinner and I'll give you permission.
― ulysses, Thursday, 4 February 2016 21:52 (eight years ago) link
that app would have to ask for permission before collecting the music
― moans and feedback (Dinsdale), Thursday, 4 February 2016 21:56 (eight years ago) link
xp yeah, it would only work for ilx and would miss things. I'd just modify the really bad script I use to count # of posts in an ilx thread and learn one of the python libraries for spotify out there. no guarantees. will definitely call it forks.py if I get around to it.
― Toof Seteltha (Sufjan Grafton), Thursday, 4 February 2016 21:58 (eight years ago) link
for the record i don't use spotify because i decided many years ago that i would never pay to steal. it's a shitty moral principle and i wouldn't dream of trying to enforce it on anyone else, but it's the only one i have, and i'm not giving it up.
― diana krallice (rushomancy), Thursday, 4 February 2016 22:15 (eight years ago) link
i use free spotify when i do use it, which saves me hundreds of cents. i have this one ad memorized unfortunately..
"so i, uh, well...i just wanted to say, you know, the thing is...i was kind of wondering if you wanted to..." *"sexy" guitar jam*
― nomar, Thursday, 4 February 2016 22:25 (eight years ago) link
FWIW, this objection makes no sense in either direction. Spotify gets all its music from legal rights-holders who send it to us, and pays royalties for all plays once we get it. We no more "steal" music than Amazon steals books. Also, you can use Spotify for free (that is, by allowing yourself to be advertised to).
(You can argue about whether we pay enough, or pay the right way, or various other things. But there's no meaningful sense in which we steal anything.)
― glenn mcdonald, Thursday, 4 February 2016 22:26 (eight years ago) link
And, just to be clear, the same applies to Apple Music and Google Play, and I assume to Deezer and Rhapsody and Amazon. It's not a Spotify-specific point.
Non-on-demand services like Pandora are different, as are user-uploading services like YouTube and Soundcloud.
― glenn mcdonald, Thursday, 4 February 2016 22:32 (eight years ago) link
http://www.billboard.com/articles/business/6828092/spotify-class-action-royalties-david-lowery-cracker-150-million
― a (waterface), Thursday, 4 February 2016 22:41 (eight years ago) link
altho
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20160101/01203133219/understanding-david-lowerys-lawsuit-against-spotify-insanity-music-licensing.shtml
― a (waterface), Thursday, 4 February 2016 22:42 (eight years ago) link
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/apr/03/how-much-musicians-make-spotify-itunes-youtube
― a (waterface), Thursday, 4 February 2016 22:43 (eight years ago) link
this thread eventually got nice and loose and lolsy, but man, if we're gonna just do a straight rehash of the spotify thread then it really is time to lock it imo.
― the thirteenth floorior (Doctor Casino), Thursday, 4 February 2016 23:05 (eight years ago) link
Also discussed here Stop Thinking of Yourself as a Good Person: The Ethics and Economics of Music Streaming
― Jeff, Thursday, 4 February 2016 23:07 (eight years ago) link
xp how could we ever do that w/o croup. how could we do anything for that matter.
― Toof Seteltha (Sufjan Grafton), Thursday, 4 February 2016 23:14 (eight years ago) link
The lawsuits are one of the only things I can't talk about, because lawyers. But nothing about them contradicts what I said above.
And if there are any helpful Apple or Google people on the thread, who know all the same information but aren't currently being sued, feel free to jump in and answer questions.
― glenn mcdonald, Thursday, 4 February 2016 23:15 (eight years ago) link
"i imagine it's hard af to make a living as a music writer"
Well, see, heres the thing
― broderik f (darraghmac), Thursday, 4 February 2016 23:17 (eight years ago) link
There was a point way back on ILX (I dunno, 8? 12? years ago) when one user was constantly starting one type of thread and it sorta bugged me -- like, "why is [said person] *always* doing that? ugh. so annoying. wahh."
Then I guess I kinda grew up. I was being dumb.
Some people use the internet differently than I do. It's okay.
― john. a resident of chicago., Thursday, 4 February 2016 23:47 (eight years ago) link
Word on the street was that brodie was J Jameson's sock account
― thank you, based basics (Drugs A. Money), Friday, 5 February 2016 00:14 (eight years ago) link
Getting off?
― broderik f (darraghmac), Friday, 5 February 2016 00:17 (eight years ago) link
Notable posters have included Momus,[2] Simon Reynolds, Philip Sherburne, Drew Daniel of Matmos and The Soft Pink Truth,[3] John Darnielle of The Mountain Goats,[4] Frank Kogan, Ned Raggett,[5] former The Wire editor Mark Sinker, Jenna Jameson,[6] former Village Voice music editor Chuck Eddy, Peter Chung (creator of Æon Flux), Fluxblog author Matthew Perpetua and Modest Mickey.[citation needed]
Why you posting wiki trivia about http://www.thefedoralounge.com/ ?
― pplains, Friday, 5 February 2016 01:29 (eight years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fNAiI2ZBsg
― reggie (qualmsley), Friday, 5 February 2016 02:06 (eight years ago) link
what i really like about this poll is the phrase "without permission," as though you have like a copyright in the posting of a youtube to a thread that can only be waived by your express agreement. --een
otm
― flopson, Friday, 5 February 2016 02:18 (eight years ago) link
I understand that different people draw their moral boundaries with regards to living with the compromises inherent under capitalism in different places.
But it's strange to me that people would choose to demand a zero-tolerance approach to an imperfect tech provider such as Spotify.
And yet they do not choose to exercise a zero-tolerance approach to really seriously imperfect tech providers such as Amazon (Amazon of the tax avoidance, the union busting, the disregard for labour conditions) by... not reading or posting to ILX (we are still hosted on Amazon, yes? and I see their ad banners, often for really awful things, every morning until I log in.)
Thread starter is a bully, yes, and has repeatedly declared himself the self-appointed Tone Police for all of ILX like a human Tumblr GIF, which does not endear me to the thread or the principle. But "I'm going to pick on the easy targets, but never address the harder targets in which I am equally complicit" is not really a morally defensible position.
― Möbius the Stripper (Branwell with an N), Friday, 5 February 2016 08:23 (eight years ago) link
I'm with you up until the words "morally defensible position", because I just don't think we should hold the average person to high, I would almost argue perfectionist, moral standards. An ethics of convenience is inadequate for the purposes of evangelization, but to argue that such ethics are flatly unacceptable is a little puritan for my tastes.
― diana krallice (rushomancy), Friday, 5 February 2016 08:50 (eight years ago) link
OK, for "not a morally defensible position" substitute something a little more like "don't pretend you're not being just a little bit hypocritical while calling other people out for their hypocrisy, but hey, most people have to be a little bit hypocritical to function in the societies we exist in, we just pick different battles."
I'm trying and failing not to reach for the aphorism about "speck, eye, log", but.
― Möbius the Stripper (Branwell with an N), Friday, 5 February 2016 08:55 (eight years ago) link
Are you cool with polls attacking users in this community?
― ✖✖✖ (Moka), Friday, 5 February 2016 08:57 (eight years ago) link
Are you?
No, I am not cool with polls attacking users in this community because I've been the focus of a few of them over the years. But I don't know if that was a specific question to me or not.
― Möbius the Stripper (Branwell with an N), Friday, 5 February 2016 08:58 (eight years ago) link
I'm tech stupid but sure! The major problems with something that would just crawl the page and automatically add to a playlist are that people misspell names and song titles all the time. And so does Spotify! And any other service as well. I do a lot of hunting around to find things that don't show up where they should. But anything that would narrow the gap!A plug-in or applet or whatever the fuck that could pull all the music on a page by name seems like something that would catch on big if it was done right. This could be the next hipster puppies ILX success story. Call it "forks" and buy me dinner and I'll give you permission.― ulysses, Thursday, 4 February 2016 21:52 (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― ulysses, Thursday, 4 February 2016 21:52 (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
I have a friend who's supposedly working on such an app at the moment by the way.
― posted with permission by (dog latin), Friday, 5 February 2016 09:01 (eight years ago) link
Thread starter is a bully, yes
No, ime/o. And that's as close to a defence of him as you're going to get from me.
― The Robustness of Captchas (Tom D.), Friday, 5 February 2016 10:16 (eight years ago) link
Citations not really needed, mind.
― Mark G, Friday, 5 February 2016 12:55 (eight years ago) link
"OK, for "not a morally defensible position" substitute something a little more like "don't pretend you're not being just a little bit hypocritical while calling other people out for their hypocrisy, but hey, most people have to be a little bit hypocritical to function in the societies we exist in, we just pick different battles."
I'm trying and failing not to reach for the aphorism about "speck, eye, log", but."
Yeah, that I can agree with. I'm personally inclined to use the phrase "holier-than-thou" in this context.
― diana krallice (rushomancy), Friday, 5 February 2016 12:59 (eight years ago) link
dog latin, your friend did not ask me permission. i call backsies.
― ulysses, Friday, 5 February 2016 14:20 (eight years ago) link
A plug-in or applet or whatever the fuck that could pull all the music on a page
i wrote a script for pulling the youtube links from ilx threads at one point. no idea where it is now tho.
― tpp, Friday, 5 February 2016 14:31 (eight years ago) link
i think some of the aversion to spotify is an aversion to listening to a database, and all the barely engaged listening facilitated by the vast playlists easily generated or accessed through it.
It’s lazy to pretend all private listening is the same; context shapes how you hear things, whether you're sitting down with expensive boutique label vinyl, sweating to a radio set on a treadmill or going for a nocturnal trip down a youtube hole.
I'm bemused by these playlists tho, outside of supreme indolence or an aversion to words idgi. if I’m not in a position to read a thread, there’s plenty of much better curated stuff out there. and how could the ilxness of it matter when it's shorn of ilxness?
I used to see the sort of blind listening encouraged by these aggregated lists of unknowns as like swimming around and seeing what i bumped into, but lots of excellent stuff can sound unappealing like that, randomly sequenced, & it skews towards magpie-listening
this goes down to how people use ILX and what they're looking for w music generally. whether you're just looking for grist for the mill or yr trying to hone or develop some sensitivity. do you want to hear more or hear better
― ogmor, Friday, 5 February 2016 18:43 (eight years ago) link
how dare you fucking presume with what depth i or anyone else listens to a playlist you pretentious jerk
― artsvashen (imago), Friday, 5 February 2016 18:45 (eight years ago) link