Fleetwood Mac: Classic or Dud

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Not often emphasized is how deserved its gargantuan success was. "Rumours" is the summit of pop music.

I've been listening to "Mirage" lately and am reminded of how a great band -- Christine's harmonies, the McVie/Fleetwood rhythm section, say, working in tandem -- can give the frothiest of confections unexpected and even subversive undertones ("Book of Love," "Can't Go Back," "Eyes of the World").

― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Monday, 11 April 2005 01:03 (nineteen years ago) link

The wierdest thing about Rumors is the non-inclusion of Silver Springs one of Stevie Nicks' greatest songs, one which so suits the themes of the album. Glad I wasn't the one to tell her we can't fit it on.

― me, Monday, 11 April 2005 01:16 (nineteen years ago) link

Has anyone read Cath Carroll's book on the band in general and Rumours specifically?

― john'n'chicago, Monday, 11 April 2005 01:29 (nineteen years ago) link

I still think the s/t is better than Rumours.

― Stormy Davis (diamond), Monday, 11 April 2005 01:50 (nineteen years ago) link

Christine McVie is my girl.

― Atnevon (Atnevon), Monday, 11 April 2005 03:38 (nineteen years ago) link

NO! she's MY girl. You can't have her.

― Stormy Davis (diamond), Monday, 11 April 2005 04:40 (nineteen years ago) link

"Oh Daddy" isn't on 'Rumours.'

― Rickey Wright (Rrrickey), Monday, 11 April 2005 08:01 (nineteen years ago) link

Oh yes it is. Penultimate track, between "I Don't Wanna Know" and "Gold Dust Woman."

Also, "Silver Springs" was added to the remastered reissue last year.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Monday, 11 April 2005 08:38 (nineteen years ago) link

the Carroll book is too long on Stevie-the-witch-goddess, too short on Christine (the best songwriter in the group), has some very good stories and repeats its points a lot. if you're a big big fan you should read it once.

― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Monday, 11 April 2005 08:50 (nineteen years ago) link

Christine (the best songwriter in the group)

okay. i'll bite:
she may be a better songwriter, but her arrangements are soundalike snorefests.

― john'n'chicago, Monday, 11 April 2005 16:36 (nineteen years ago) link

She didn't arrange them: Lindsay did. And I guess you haven' t listened to "Little Lies," "Hold Me," or "Brown Eyes," which are anything but soundalikes or snorefests.

― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Monday, 11 April 2005 17:17 (nineteen years ago) link

"Little Lies," "Hold Me," or "Brown Eyes,"

shivers please don't make me.

having just listened to Fleetwood Mac, i am again amazed at how alike "Sugar Daddy" and "Say You Love Me" sound.

― john'n'chicago, Monday, 11 April 2005 17:25 (nineteen years ago) link

I agree, but how does that make them bad? And you don't have ears if you think "Hold Me" sounds like either one of the songs you cited.

― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Monday, 11 April 2005 17:34 (nineteen years ago) link

i didn't say that "hold me" sounds like those.

anyway, i hear the same chords, bass riffs and vocal inflections all over her songs. even the songs of hers i dislike less (eg. "over and over") suffer from this.

― john'n'chicago, Monday, 11 April 2005 17:51 (nineteen years ago) link

xpost

Sorry, dunno what I was thinking when I wrote that. Obviously wasn't.

― Rickey Wright (Rrrickey), Monday, 11 April 2005 21:45 (nineteen years ago) link

For the last week, I've been putting on repeat 'The Chain' just to hear that slight reprise with the awe-inspiring guitar freak-out..

The freak-out sounds very proto-postpunk to my ears! At least until the more bluesy part toward the end of it. I can imagine JD or The Sound making something similar...

You're right. I'm listening to it for the first time and it sounds a lot like Joy Division, particularly the tone on the bass line. I can see the OK Computer comparison too with this track.

― the fucker that will burn you (sundar), Monday, 11 April 2005 23:23 (nineteen years ago) link

"Don't Stop" is a song that sounds as fresh and exhiliarating now as it did when I first heard it on classic rock radio...even after years and years. Great, simple hook; great traded-off vocals between Lindsey and Christine; Spector-like percussion; etc. It's just pop perfection -- can you imagine the A&R guy hearing it for the first time? I cannot imagine someone hearing this song (or the band putting it down on tape) without KNOWING it's a hit.

― PB, Monday, 11 April 2005 23:30 (nineteen years ago) link

Is there anyway who actually argues this by the way:

Stevie > Christie

???

Don't Stop is amazing duh.

― Atnevon (Atnevon), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 01:27 (nineteen years ago) link

yes i do. my favourite FM song is stevie, and she accounts for three of my top five.

― shine headlights on me (electricsound), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 01:43 (nineteen years ago) link

by stevie, obv

― shine headlights on me (electricsound), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 01:48 (nineteen years ago) link

I just thought about it, and my FM top 5, nay, top 10, is all Stevie. Landslide does it for me.

― VegemiteGrrl (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 01:57 (nineteen years ago) link

i am amazed that people would argue the inverse.

― john'n'chicago, Tuesday, 12 April 2005 02:19 (nineteen years ago) link

Christine has more soul. I guess if Christine sang "Seven Wonders" it would b my favorite Mac song evah.

― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 13:04 (nineteen years ago) link

TUSK, for the hours and hours I spent in my room trying to figure it out as a kid. I actually had the Stevie / Christine debate with myself, but decided that I didn't have to choose, I was Catholic but also catholic

haha "figure it out"...no, really, I was listening to the music you cynical bastards

― Haikunym (Haikunym), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 13:12 (nineteen years ago) link

What was there to figure out, tho?

― A Viking of Some Note (Andrew Thames), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 13:16 (nineteen years ago) link

Stevie obviously rules, although Christine's 'Over and Over' is a gem. What I heard of Stevie's solo output did not impress me much however.

― Baaderonixxxorzh (Fabfunk), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 13:17 (nineteen years ago) link

TUSK, for the hours and hours I spent in my room trying to figure it out as a kid. I actually had the Stevie / Christine debate with myself, but decided that I didn't have to choose, I was Catholic but also catholic.

haha, perfect

― PB, Tuesday, 12 April 2005 13:20 (nineteen years ago) link

"What I heard of Stevie's solo output did not impress me much however. "

"Stand Back"! "If Anyone Falls"! "Edge of Seventeen"! "Talk to Me"!

― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 13:22 (nineteen years ago) link

what is there to figure out about "Tusk"? well, for me, "why isn't this like the other Fleetwood Mac that I've heard?" "is this album complete chaos or tightly controlled?" "is this album actually ABOUT the chaos/control duality?" (I was a weird kid) and "is it okay if I think Buckingham is a genius even if he's already hogging that feeling for himself?"

― Haikunym (Haikunym), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 13:38 (nineteen years ago) link

six months pass...

I absolutely can't get enough of this band right now. Do any other groups exist that mine a similar vein of slick 70s production with a bite of angst and a dash of weirdo mysticism? Or am I going to have to start buying Stevie Nicks solo albums?

― Ozbash (stickthrower), Thursday, 3 November 2005 18:09 (eighteen years ago) link

This thread is surprisingly slim.

― Roxymuzak, Mrs. Carbohydrate (roxymuzak), Thursday, 3 November 2005 18:28 (eighteen years ago) link

Stevie Nicks solo: slick 80's productioin with a dash of weirdo mysticism.

― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Thursday, 3 November 2005 18:43 (eighteen years ago) link

Ozbash, buy Gene Clark's "No Other" immediately!!

― jaxon (jaxon), Thursday, 3 November 2005 19:03 (eighteen years ago) link

roxymuzak, hi dere

― gear (gear), Thursday, 3 November 2005 19:08 (eighteen years ago) link

also Ozbash, if you want some less slick production, but psych groups that have a good male/female dynamic, check out Anonymous and the Music Emporium.

but here's what jumps to mind wrt slick 70s production & mysticism: Joni Mitchell (Don Juan's & Hissing of Summer Lawns), Dennis Wilson, early Eagles, any solo Byrds from that period (the first David Crosby, solo McGuinn, Dillard & Clark). maybe even Steely Dan?

― jaxon (jaxon), Thursday, 3 November 2005 19:52 (eighteen years ago) link

I've had "Never Forget" from Tusk playing non-stop in my head for the last 6 hours.

― Bimble The Nimble, Jumped Over A Thimble! (Bimble...), Thursday, 3 November 2005 19:55 (eighteen years ago) link

I thought about mentioning Steely Dan in my question, because a: they do the same kind of smooth production/cynicism thing and b: they're my other big crush at the moment, along with the mac. Steely Dan are absolutely dripping in cynicism though, whereas with FM it's hidden under glossy production and fake smiles.. which I think is what I like.

The male/female dynamic thing sounds like a good lead as well. Thanks for the suggestions so far, keep them rolling in.

xpost

― Ozbash (stickthrower), Thursday, 3 November 2005 20:04 (eighteen years ago) link

classic

― Susan Douglas (Susan Douglas), Thursday, 3 November 2005 20:08 (eighteen years ago) link

If you don't have the Buckingham Nicks LP, grab that for sure. And as for remotely similar stuff, I've been really feeling the first America LP, though it actually sounds more like Neil Young or CSN&Y.

― Confounded (Confounded), Thursday, 3 November 2005 20:43 (eighteen years ago) link

Also: short thread on the Christine McVie solo album.

― Confounded (Confounded), Thursday, 3 November 2005 20:57 (eighteen years ago) link

Revived, b/c I'm convinced that Rumours is the single greatest springtime, sunny, driving-along-water-with-the-windows-down album of all time. Utterly perfect (well, maybe not "Oh Daddy"...)

Completely OTM

First heard it en route to Vegas this summer. Have yet to go beyond that and the Dance though.

― tremendoid (tremendoid), Thursday, 3 November 2005 22:36 (eighteen years ago) link

this band was classic in every guise, they were like the jazz messengers of rock. The Peter Green edition, the Kirwan-centric group, the B/N focused years....i don't trust anyone who doesn't like them (except Jack Cole)

― gear (gear), Thursday, 3 November 2005 22:39 (eighteen years ago) link

thanks for the mid-thread shout-out, gear. that's not bad form at all.

― Roxymuzak, Mrs. Carbohydrate (roxymuzak), Thursday, 3 November 2005 22:44 (eighteen years ago) link

;)

― Roxymuzak, Mrs. Carbohydrate (roxymuzak), Thursday, 3 November 2005 22:44 (eighteen years ago) link

Lindsay Buckingham's voice has gone completely cactus in recent years, no range at all, shame

― mentalist (mentalist), Thursday, 3 November 2005 23:43 (eighteen years ago) link

roffle xpost

― gear (gear), Thursday, 3 November 2005 23:48 (eighteen years ago) link

are you sure mr mentalist? i really like his voice on 'say you will'. it seems to have made it through the years of excess in better shape than stevie's, at least..

― john p. irrelevant (electricsound), Friday, 4 November 2005 00:07 (eighteen years ago) link

You make Lovin Fun makes them a classic in and of itself

― joe schmoe (joeschmoe), Friday, 4 November 2005 00:49 (eighteen years ago) link

two years pass...

"The Essential Fleetwood Mac" pretends that Buckingham Nicks never happened.

― I know, right?, Thursday, 24 January 2008 17:08 (sixteen years ago) link

Here's a post from seven years ago that is so bad, misguided and just plain wrong that it's funny.

"They were a bit like Blue Oyster Cult in that the music was so soft and gentle, but there was still a hint of menace about the band."

Maybe FM was soft and gentle, but BOC??

― Bill Magill, Thursday, 24 January 2008 17:25 (sixteen years ago) link

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