Steely Dan: "Steely Dan's name has been popping up as a hip musical crush. Remember, this glossy bop-pop was the indifferent aristocracy to punk rock's stone-throwing in the late 70's. People fought

there's a glossiness to gaucho that feels a step beyond aja but i've never been convinced that it makes the record some alien object. "third world man" musically and lyrically depicts a kind of suicidal hangover and the glassiness is conveying part of the story

I think I've finally come around to thinking Gaucho is the best SD album. Babylon Sisters... that TJ verse...an exquisite song, where the "production " is key, the song is self-referential

Haven't spent time with Gaucho, but eventually came around on other Dan albums that I had heard were too slick, namely Aja and The Royal Scam, so I suppose I need to revisit this one as well.

whichever of the first 7 steely dan albums you consider the best, you're right.

lol

I think I used to love Gaucho a little more than I do now but it's still a much better record than Pretzel Logic, the only one of the initial 7 that feels rushed

also. Pretzel Logic = Village Recorders in LA, Gary Katz at the helm. Buncha LA session dudes kicking ass on all the tracks. Gaucho they tried to record in NY, and mostly did, but that was a super different environment than LA at the time, and they hadn't worked there in a long time. But as far as the application of the methods or whatever, it's the same people using their same skills - you can argue "the bigger budget meant they labored too long over the tracks" but that's a weird claim to make about a band who was never about spontaneity or the integrity of the live take or anything. their whole point was always using the environment of the studio to craft a meticulous track, which they pretty much perfect on Gaucho. I prefer Aja because I thin the songs are better.

it's weird cuz on the Aja episode of "classic albums" they talk about switching coasts every album... pretzel logic sounds sorta east coast cramped apartments to me whereas Gaucho is so evocative of driving through SoCal at night it's lysergic

maybe part of my lukewarm attitude towards Pretzel Logic has to do with how expansive and potential-laden Countdown To Ecstasy is.. and ecstasy has more badass skunk guitar solos

nah that's stupid, i wasn't even born yet when gaucho came out

But as far as the application of the methods or whatever, it's the same people using their same skills - you can argue "the bigger budget meant they labored too long over the tracks" but that's a weird claim to make about a band who was never about spontaneity or the integrity of the live take or anything. their whole point was always using the environment of the studio to craft a meticulous track, which they pretty much perfect on Gaucho.

Oh, I'd agree that Steely Dan were never really about spontaneity or the "integrity of the live take" - there seems to be some people here that have totally missed the point and seem to be getting the impression that this is some kind of "production" vs. "spontaneity" face-off. It fucking isn't.

I'll agree that the whole point of Steely Dan was about using the studio to make the best records they could possibly make, but they did not perfect their approach with Gaucho. They had already perfected their approach, and Gaucho was an attempt to go further than even this, resulting in a boring, tedious, overcooked and sterile record. They had already achieved the perfect balance of performance, production and songwriting elsewhere. Gaucho basically was an attempt to improve on something that couldn't be improved without having a detrimental effect on the final result, and it couldn't be more obvious from merely listening to the record.

Overrating Gaucho is one of the most storied of AJ ILX traditions, and has outlasted other now long forgotten tribal rituals like pretending Big & Rich weren't total ass

Haha all ilx traditions tho AJ ILX was my fav Backstreet Boy

guess i just over-enjoy gaucho, just over-feeling it.

and it couldn't be more obvious from merely listening to the record.

i mean it's a great album but it's kinda like led zep presence or tusk or something like that it's been "underrated" for so long it's kinda overrated i don't think it's nearly as good as aja for late SD and i still think they were best in the mid period peak of katy lied/royal scam

I don't really rate Presence either, bar two tracks on it. The two most obvious ones.

Have always preferred Gaucho to Aja personally

Mostly becuz Time Out of Mind

Uptown baby
Uptown baby

https://31.media.tumblr.com/24c0c74b9eb55102f768902a9f2c23ba/tumblr_inline_mnxgczQUWY1qz4rgp.gif

man that breakdown in Time Out of Mind is so not sterile & the changes on glamor profession are so intense...feel so weird about "simply listen to the music" approaches vis-a-vis steely dan. sd is a band whose music is better when you're thinking about it, analyzing it, breaking down the shit that's going on in it, and reflecting on how all the parts fit together. that's the point of the music they made, not just "does it swing." while gaucho doesn't scale aja's heights, that's because nothing ever could, which are the terms on which it doesn't succeed: it's an attempt to improve on a literally perfect album.

Gaucho is the hangover/paranoia after the high of Aja. It's an incredibly disturbing record. The songs are just as good imo. Although I find myself listening to the demos more these days. The "Glamour Profession" demo is extraordinary, with just a little less glitz (Fagen does the backing vox). And yeah, musically that song is probably the most interesting thing they ever did in terms of chord changes.

"Third World Man" is a devastating song, the one Steely Dan tune that destroys me.

feel so weird about "simply listen to the music" approaches vis-a-vis steely dan. sd is a band whose music is better when you're thinking about it, analyzing it, breaking down the shit that's going on in it, and reflecting on how all the parts fit together.

otm

I don't think 'Glamour Profession' is in any way "intense" and nor do I think Gaucho is in any way "disturbing" - it's not really an album that moves me in any sense, other than towards the stereo to switch it off and put on something a little more exciting.

I've only been listening to Steely Dan properly for the last couple of years but already I feel they're one of the hardest bands to pick a favourite album by and usually I find ranking/list making so easy. The original run of albums are so consistent and close in quality. I'd probably be able to put them in some kind of order but it would change tomorrow. I'm envious of people who are able to able to pick highlights.

Up until recently I would have said Gaucho was the weak link but after my brother (who is on this thread too) persuaded me to give it another go a few weeks back, I've really been falling in love with it. Today I could pick it as my favourite. It's been going down well with some of the other albums I've been obsessing over recently (Avalon, Kaputt, One World and Provision/Cupid & Psyche, Walk Across The Rooftops/Hats). I don't understand Turrican's criticisms at all but that seems to be a common theme on here recently.

Avalon has so much more life in it than Gaucho that it's not even funny. Now that's what I would call a perfect recording.

can't we all just agree that we aren't talking enough about The Skunk?

For example hear the raw urgency of Jeff "Skunk" Baxter's solo on "Change Of The Guard" and savor his tasteful utilization of the spinal vibrato.

And let's not forget his overdriven and explosive solo on "Boston Rag", presaging his career as a missile defense consultant

that solo on "Change of the Guard" is better though. dude was 24 yrs old ffs. I probably did a couple good things at 24, but not Skunk Baxter good

*pick slide*

THE BOSTON RAG: Enervated after an attack of unrelieved nostalgia, Jeff "Skunk" Baxter sheds his outer skin and stands revealed as a Wild Boy.

in a tribute to everyone on this thread i have been playing gaucho all morning

as it's the afternoon on a sunny summer's day i have turned the volume up and opened the window

discovery: gaucho is even better if you turn the volume up :)

I was going to add a lengthy response but I'd just be reiterating what I said here last year:

The filler tracks on Pretzel Logic for me are East St Louis, With a Gun and Monkey in Your Soul but none of them are terrible or anything. The first four tracks are so classic though.

When it comes to that initial run of albums I can't pick between eras, my top 3 would be Countdown>Aja>Gaucho and then the other four are more or less equal, I love the whole lot.

Gaucho might well take 2nd place now though. It was easily my least-favourite when I got into SD but it grew on me song by song. Like I always used to want to skip 'My Rival' but the lyrics are so great.

Joan Crawford otm. Getting the most out of Steely Dan is not a passive experience.

I came across this last night. Had not heard of this supergroup until now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAvYHXz7XsA

Yeah, Gaucho being a blatantly flawed record has nothing to do with the way they made it and everything to do with people not listening to it properly. Good one! "It's textbook!" as they say in the business. Any other stereotypes people wanna live up to?

I mean, really. How do you think people who are critical of this record have been listening to it? With their cock!?

People fought

i mean it's a great album but it's kinda like led zep presence or tusk or something like that it's been "underrated" for so long it's kinda overrated i don't think it's nearly as good as aja for late SD and i still think they were best in the mid period peak of katy lied/royal scam

― Pull your head on out your hippy haze (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, August 15, 2016 12:37 AM (14 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

1980 seems to be a good year for this kind of "underrated then overrated" albums, McCartney II is maybe one of these as well? idk if the lukewarm reaction they got at the time was due to shift in critical tastes after new wave? I guess Gaucho and Tusk both follow ups to critically acclaimed mega-hits as well, Tusk and McCartney II both kind of "old wave artists trying to get to grips with new wave" deals

(I love all three of these albums, and Gaucho is my favourite SD record, so don't really agree that any of them are "overrated" exactly, but they all maybe kind of overshadow other albums by the same artists that they were once regarded as being underrated in comparison with).

oh wait, Tusk was 1979, not 1980

I see Gaucho totally differently -- for me it's as though the excesses of 1980 freed them up to fully realize their own excessive concept, to shake off any pretenses of being "rock-and-roll" that they had previously maintained on records like Countdown to Ecstasy, perhaps for radio play purposes or just because everyone internalized some of the rock dude prejudices of the 1970s to an extent. I don't at all hear it as them "trying to get with the times," it's more like they were ahead of their own time, and their proper time had finally arrived, so they created their apotheosis and then quit.

I'm still not convinced it's a better record than Aja, but those two compete for best in my mind.

Presence, a record I also love, is a totally opposite statement, a decision to make an even more stripped down and essential version of the band's core sound without as much of the fantastical production wizardry at a time when one might expect them to go further over the edge.

no man alive you couldn't possibly be right, after all Turrican is yelling a lot. accept that he really super knows what he is talking about and is not at all talking out of his ass.

xxp oh, I agree, I don't think Gaucho is similar to to McCartney II or Tusk in the sense of trying to engage with new wave, just that it had a mostly negative reception release but it's critical stock has risen a lot over the past 10-15 years.

(I think I read somewhere that when Chuck Rainey was recording the bass part for "Peg" Becker and Fagen told him not to play slap bass because they were worried that it would come across as an attempt to be modish, but Rainey thought that slap bass would suit the track, so recorded his part with his back to them so they couldn't see him slapping? so I guess they consciously wanted to avoid following trends)

That Chuck Rainey clip about the secret slapping is one of my favorite studio stories of all time.

I listen to Gaucho with my cock, using PONO

personal utility pole