Steely Dan: "Steely Dan's name has been popping up as a hip musical crush. Remember, this glossy bop-pop was the indifferent aristocracy to punk rock's stone-throwing in the late 70's. People fought

i mean it's a great album but it's kinda like led zep presence or tusk or something like that it's been "underrated" for so long it's kinda overrated i don't think it's nearly as good as aja for late SD and i still think they were best in the mid period peak of katy lied/royal scam

― Pull your head on out your hippy haze (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, August 15, 2016 12:37 AM (14 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

1980 seems to be a good year for this kind of "underrated then overrated" albums, McCartney II is maybe one of these as well? idk if the lukewarm reaction they got at the time was due to shift in critical tastes after new wave? I guess Gaucho and Tusk both follow ups to critically acclaimed mega-hits as well, Tusk and McCartney II both kind of "old wave artists trying to get to grips with new wave" deals

(I love all three of these albums, and Gaucho is my favourite SD record, so don't really agree that any of them are "overrated" exactly, but they all maybe kind of overshadow other albums by the same artists that they were once regarded as being underrated in comparison with).

oh wait, Tusk was 1979, not 1980

I see Gaucho totally differently -- for me it's as though the excesses of 1980 freed them up to fully realize their own excessive concept, to shake off any pretenses of being "rock-and-roll" that they had previously maintained on records like Countdown to Ecstasy, perhaps for radio play purposes or just because everyone internalized some of the rock dude prejudices of the 1970s to an extent. I don't at all hear it as them "trying to get with the times," it's more like they were ahead of their own time, and their proper time had finally arrived, so they created their apotheosis and then quit.

I'm still not convinced it's a better record than Aja, but those two compete for best in my mind.

Presence, a record I also love, is a totally opposite statement, a decision to make an even more stripped down and essential version of the band's core sound without as much of the fantastical production wizardry at a time when one might expect them to go further over the edge.

no man alive you couldn't possibly be right, after all Turrican is yelling a lot. accept that he really super knows what he is talking about and is not at all talking out of his ass.

xxp oh, I agree, I don't think Gaucho is similar to to McCartney II or Tusk in the sense of trying to engage with new wave, just that it had a mostly negative reception release but it's critical stock has risen a lot over the past 10-15 years.

(I think I read somewhere that when Chuck Rainey was recording the bass part for "Peg" Becker and Fagen told him not to play slap bass because they were worried that it would come across as an attempt to be modish, but Rainey thought that slap bass would suit the track, so recorded his part with his back to them so they couldn't see him slapping? so I guess they consciously wanted to avoid following trends)

That Chuck Rainey clip about the secret slapping is one of my favorite studio stories of all time.

I listen to Gaucho with my cock, using PONO

personal utility pole

Gaucho might be my favorite SD song. I have a half-baked theory (I forget if I said this upthread) that they were at their best when they let go of any need to make half-hearted gestures toward "rocking." I mean, maybe they actually liked rockin' out, but somehow I get the feeling they didn't really, and that a lot of the rock elements they used were concessions to the times and the audience.

― walid foster dulles (man alive), Monday, March 2, 2015 3:47 PM (1 year ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Regardless, I feel like Gaucho (the song) is the apex of their entire aesthetic, compositional approach, lyrical approach, etc.

― walid foster dulles (man alive), Monday, March 2, 2015 3:48 PM (1 year ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

lol guess I repeat myself

I feel like you're just projecting your own preferences on to them, it's more likely the band just evolved over time.

accept that he really super knows what he is talking about and is not at all talking out of his ass.

― The bald Phil Collins impersonator cash grab (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Monday, August 15, 2016 2:51 PM (21 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

It's not so much that I'm talking out of my ass, it's really more that you seem to have some hurt in yours.

do ppl see Two Against Nature or Everything Must Go ever getting Gaucho-style "actually this is their best album" type reappraisals? they both seemed to get very positive reviews on release (aside from the Pitchfork Two Against Nature review quoted in the thread title), but it seems mostly accepted that they aren't in the same league as the 1972-80 records.

Everything Must Go is good second tier Dan with a couple of canonical tracks ("Godwhacker," "Pixaleen," maybe the title track.

I prefer 2vN to EMG because of "Jack of Speed" and "West of Hollywood." They're both very good - but they're not in that league. their high points come between clever, decent little songs that don't devastate. I think between the two of them, you could make a pretty killer 10-song set, but even then, there's an autopilot quality that wasn't present when they were making either their earlier albums or the big-budget follow-up-the-big-one albums.

neither is as essential as The Nightfly.

What about sunken cathedrals or whatever it's called, that most recent fagen album? How has it fared now that it's not new?

It's good -- inessential.

Blasting Pretzel Logic right now and 'Night by Night' still sounding as mighty ever, will probably move on to the underrated Katy Lied after this.

*as mighty as ever

I feel like you're just projecting your own preferences on to them, it's more likely the band just evolved over time.

― Pull your head on out your hippy haze (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 15 August 2016 15:19 (32 minutes ago) Permalink

Maybe, but I feel like they always sound a little too stiff and buttoned-up when trying to "rock." So I guess that's my way of accounting for it.

3 of the 4 Fagen albums are at least listenable, and The Nightfly is straight-up great. I like Sunken Condos more than Morph the Cat, and I have no use for Kamakiriad at all.

morph the cat is the only fagen record i wouldn't recommend, the songs kinda go nowhere. sunken condos is funky and great

Am I the only one who gets these blacked out shapes instead of you tube links?

I get them too on Chrome. Should work on Firefox or mobile.

oh also, both becker solo albums are great, if a little more distant from the dan sound than fagen's

I really love Becker's production on that China Crisis record, which is undoubtedly the only China Crisis record I like.

Morph the Cat is closer to what Turrican hears when he plays Gaucho.

didn't realise he was on here, i get these blacked out shapes instead of challenging opinions

lol

tbf an ilm thread about Steely Dan in 2016 is p much challops all the way down

***** * * ***** *****
* * * * * *
***** ***** * * *

I haven't actually heard any of Fagen's solo stuff beyond The Nightfly, which I really, really like and find to be a much stronger record than Gaucho.

Thank you, pplains

The Nightfly is tremendous and I'd also rank it above Gaucho though several of Gaucho's songs are better than any individual songs on the Nightfly. But the Nightfly is just so light and free, but still with the dark flourishes here and there ("The Goodbye Look") -- just a wonderful record

after all my gaucho shit talk i'm listening to gaucho now and it's really great

maybe the best steely dan album is the steely dan album you're listening to ~~right now~~

maybe the best steely dan album is the steely dan album you're listening to ~~right now~~

this is pretty true

there's a steely dan album for every occasion

Is "My Rival" an Alex Chilton cover?

i like so cal coked out sd better than nyc academic jazznerd sd

haha um no

xp

"Hey 19" is kind of a Chilton narrative tho.

"Gaucho" is about Chris Bell's experience at a gay bar iirc

This thread made my dig out my copy of Gaucho for the first time in a while (the 2000 CD remaster) and was surprised to see that Keith Jarrett no longer gets a part-credit for the title track - p sure he did at one point? It's definitely a steal from ''Long as You Know You're Living Yours'

I see it as a little similar to Taurus -> Stairway to Heaven. Opens very similarly with a very similar vibe/sound/harmonic device, but goes somewhere completely different.

I mean I'm sure they ripped it off, but all they really ripped off was the groove at the beginning.

i kinda worry that gaucho (a good album IMO but not my favorite of theirs) is getting a little over-theorized

i'm not sure the sound is as 'conceptual' as folks here make it out to be. it seems like a logical next point in a line of development, if a little more out on a limb than some might have expected.

xpost

I can't find the studio version of the Jarrett tune on YouTube, but on this live version at about 23:40 Garbarek is playing the same melody as Gaucho - it's a lot closer than the Taurus/StH biz imho:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OIMvHdJ_04

i'm not sure the sound is as 'conceptual' as folks here make it out to be. it seems like a logical next point in a line of development, if a little more out on a limb than some might have expected.

― wizzz! (amateurist), Thursday, August 18, 2016 8:31 PM (48 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yup, completely agree.

i mean, fagen and becker are nothing if not smart, and not averse to intellectualizing their own work, but i'm still not sure that the musical texture of gaucho can be made to bear all the connotations people have placed on it here.

... huh?