Yeah, it was really the short-sightedness. There was a brief window of opportunity where it seemed like there was at least potential to take advantage of all the fan trading and find way to monetize it. Instead, they sued their fans.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 27 December 2016 15:24 (seven years ago) link
eh it's easy to play monday morning quarterback imo
also:at least potential to take advantage of all the fan trading and find way to monetize it
i'm not really sure that the years that have passed have convinced me of that at all
― blonde redheads have more fun (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 27 December 2016 16:15 (seven years ago) link
I don't know about that. I assume Pearl Jam/Dead/Bruce et al have made tons selling bootlegs to fans, which iirc was Lars big issue, more than official studio stuff.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 27 December 2016 16:18 (seven years ago) link
ok you take those three examples, one of which is literally a musical cult unlike any other that has ever existed and two others not far behind, and i'll take the other one zillion artists who never had a chance
― blonde redheads have more fun (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 27 December 2016 16:21 (seven years ago) link
Lars was just insecure about his live tempos
― sam jax sax jam (Jordan), Tuesday, 27 December 2016 16:23 (seven years ago) link
lol
― blonde redheads have more fun (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 27 December 2016 16:23 (seven years ago) link
Ha.
Anyway, I've been to shows from the Pixies and Dead Can Dance and all sorts of acts selling shows. I assume they succeed as souvenirs, a la t shirts. Those huge acts I noted specifically because a trader community of tapers already existed, but they ultimately chose to sell to fans rather than shut down trading. And people buy them.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 27 December 2016 16:27 (seven years ago) link
Sorry I would like every person on Earth to formally apologize to Lar Ulrich before we proceed.
*taps foot*
― blonde redheads have more fun (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 27 December 2016 17:03 (seven years ago) link
Lars Wars
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 27 December 2016 17:07 (seven years ago) link
It wasn't purely their fault, mind - the years following actually vindicated the piracy concerns most artists had. But at the time, I get why fans were frustrated. The data on piracy's impact on sales was very new and incomplete, and this incomplete data allowed for the narrative that sales declines were largely due to a $2 average increase in price per unit since the 90s as well as decreasing inventory (there was a paper circulating that posited this for years). Common sense obviously told us that obviously giving someone an easy way to pilfer product for free was going to impact sales, but the sales dropoff wasn't stark enough that people realized what horseshit the aforementioned narrative was.
The other problem is that people like Metallica and Dr. Dre weren't the best vectors for the message because they were successful millionaires who probably weren't seeing a drop in their royalty checks from the piracy, whereas struggling independent artists were, and their concerns weren't getting the same airtime. Add that to the RIAA's overzealous pursuit of lawsuits against people who obviously couldn't pay and it very quickly became Evil Big Business Against Grandma. Many Independent artists were also speaking critically of the RIAA and in support of things like Napster to get them exposure, they were the voices getting airtime, so it was also felt that "smaller bands are ok with Napster" too. Which I don't blame them for, as who could have anticipated how stark the decline of sales could be during the infancy of Napster, y'know....
I was always someone who paid for all of his music simply because I largely listen to bands who sell 10,000 copies or less of albums and I want the scene to thrive, but back then everybody was parroting "people make pennies on CDs, merchandising and concerts is where it's at!", and that *still* gets traction with some people. Which of course rang hollow when the people saying that weren't actually buying merchandise or going to shows but were indeed pirating music.
Really, though, the reason for the anger makes more sense if you view it outside of a pop context. The pop industry was a corporate-backed machine by this point, one ran by suits for suits. Metal grew up as a self-sustaining underground scene and in the early 80s, tape-trading was a part of that (among Metallica, among everybody), and now these pioneers of the underground seemed to be scoffing at those ideals, like they'd turned their backs on the roots of the genre. It didn't matter that the people Metallica were targeting weren't diehard fans who wore out "No Life Til Leather" but dudes who d/led "I Disappear" alongside Godsmack mp3s (I'm not sure I believe that bootlegs were their primary concern, though they were *a* concern). Metalheads viewed it as the final betrayal to the scene.
Part of me wonders if Metallica would have been more easily forgiven without the Napster stand, but obviously history has vindicated musicians' concerns about file-sharing, and RIAA's slowness to adapt to a new digital medium and the lack of legitimate ways to purchase digital recordings for many years (at affordable prices) really fucked over musicians. obv the wrong thread for this but the thing I lament the most is now that independent artists are the voices begging for their art to be supported, for people to purchase their music (when there actually are affordable, legitimate ways to do so digitally, and even to bypass greedy labels), and they're getting "fuck you, you get money from Spotify, and your music is too expensive" chiding from fans who are too cheap to pay 5.99 on Bandcamp.
― Neanderthal, Tuesday, 27 December 2016 17:19 (seven years ago) link
Just FYI... http://livemetallica.com
― Don Van Gorp, midwest regional VP, marketing (誤訳侮辱), Tuesday, 27 December 2016 17:42 (seven years ago) link
I've bought a few off there. always good quality, tho wish they'd bring the price down. but the free shows are cool too.
I do like that I was able to get one featuring Hardwired songs live a few days after the show.
― Neanderthal, Tuesday, 27 December 2016 17:45 (seven years ago) link
San Juan show I think
http://i.imgur.com/UqFTUv8.gif
― pplains, Saturday, 27 May 2017 22:49 (seven years ago) link
Haha
― the evening redness at the injection site (GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ), Sunday, 28 May 2017 07:46 (seven years ago) link
http://www.nme.com/news/music/man-arrested-for-allegedly-urinating-on-a-family-at-metallica-concert-2122836
― starving street dogs of punk rock (Odysseus), Wednesday, 9 August 2017 13:05 (six years ago) link
One lone man's protest against the gentrification of Metallica concerts.
― Siegbran, Wednesday, 9 August 2017 13:13 (six years ago) link
I see his point, tried to get a ticket for one of their London gigs and it was £130.
― chap, Wednesday, 9 August 2017 13:41 (six years ago) link
"Daddio"
― more Allegro-like (Turrican), Wednesday, 9 August 2017 16:07 (six years ago) link
Hetfield's move around the 2:40 mark in this video is awesome
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdlQyNe_9tE
― niels, Tuesday, 12 September 2017 15:21 (six years ago) link
plus that sweet ass
― Neanderthal, Tuesday, 12 September 2017 15:37 (six years ago) link
Cliff's fingers are so long it always looks like he's using all of them at once.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 12 September 2017 15:43 (six years ago) link
Haha, Jaymz does that all throughout the Cliff 'Em All tape.
― pplains, Tuesday, 12 September 2017 17:19 (six years ago) link
My favorite part of Cliff Em all is Kirk deciding to put the beer back
― Neanderthal, Tuesday, 12 September 2017 17:21 (six years ago) link
Cliff Burton dressing like he got kicked outta Wishbone Ash in the mid-80s was one of the coolest things
― Universal LULU Nation (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 12 September 2017 17:38 (six years ago) link
I really, really, really wonder how Cliff would've turned out. It's impossible to see him selling out, but I would've said the same thing about James had he died 31 years ago.
He probably would've joined Les Claypool's Frog Brigade or something.
― pplains, Wednesday, 13 September 2017 01:14 (six years ago) link
i went to the same community college as cliff
no statue, sadly
― brimstead, Wednesday, 13 September 2017 01:19 (six years ago) link
was not there when cliff is there
i am younger than him
― brimstead, Wednesday, 13 September 2017 01:20 (six years ago) link
when cliff WAS there
not drunk, honest
― brimstead, Wednesday, 13 September 2017 01:21 (six years ago) link
Heineken huh
― calstars, Wednesday, 13 September 2017 01:23 (six years ago) link
sadly no clip on youtube of james opining on jagermeister
― brimstead, Wednesday, 13 September 2017 01:25 (six years ago) link
here's a good article:https://www.redbull.com/au-en/metallica-st-anger-15-years-on
hopefully someday an equally compelling defense will be made for Lulu
― niels, Sunday, 2 December 2018 22:27 (five years ago) link
well that was a lot of words
listening to the album while reading it and it's not as bad as I remembered thinking it was but it's also not a stealth masterpiece
― blood, loud screaming and nudity (GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ), Tuesday, 4 December 2018 05:17 (five years ago) link
Dirty Window would sound pretty cool if you did a Diamond Head style cover of it and ignored the lyrics
― blood, loud screaming and nudity (GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ), Tuesday, 4 December 2018 05:30 (five years ago) link
I’ll happily defend Lulu, but St Anger no way.
― Siegbran, Tuesday, 4 December 2018 07:31 (five years ago) link
I no longer hate St. Anger the way I did in 2003, and I get why they made it, but I don't want or need to listen to it. Lulu I'll never listen to again.
― grawlix (unperson), Tuesday, 4 December 2018 10:57 (five years ago) link
I think he makes a compelling argument (though personally I cannot listen to st anger in its entirety without going crazy) and I remember feeling something similar when listening to Lulu in one sitting (which I think I've done 4-5 times) that it's excrutiating but somehow it works, it makes sense, and with the Junior Dad ending it's ultimately v rewarding
this mtv performance is hilarious:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uz5Av9ShZyI
― niels, Tuesday, 4 December 2018 12:28 (five years ago) link
Off topic....episode of the 'Dead Rock Stars' podcast focusing on Cliff Burton: https://www.acast.com/deadrockstars/deadrockstars-cliffburton
Might not to be everyone's taste but I enjoyed it.
― millmeister, Tuesday, 4 December 2018 14:47 (five years ago) link
been meaning to read richard's piece but i've kinda already made up my mind about st. anger bc i listened to it so much when i was writing about lulu: it's interesting, and there are a few good songs/ideas buried in it, but it's not good
― jolene club remix (BradNelson), Tuesday, 4 December 2018 14:51 (five years ago) link
say what you will about lulu but it's a much more dynamic record
― jolene club remix (BradNelson), Tuesday, 4 December 2018 14:52 (five years ago) link
no doubt about that
― niels, Tuesday, 4 December 2018 14:59 (five years ago) link
Off to see them in Manchester next month, looking forward to some carefully managed traffic flow
pic.twitter.com/GP0DX2WZyn— Subprime (@sbprme) May 30, 2019
― Captain ACAB (Neil S), Thursday, 30 May 2019 12:59 (five years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0irY0Osz9Q
shudder
― FernandoHierro, Sunday, 9 June 2019 10:11 (five years ago) link
https://magazine.uc.edu/content/dam/magazine/images/famous/famousTV/lucky.jpg
― . (Michael B), Sunday, 9 June 2019 12:12 (five years ago) link
The crowd aren't even remotely into it either
They did something like that when they played here last -- picked out a few local bands from the early 90s and played a medley of their songs. A few people in the crowd might've recognized their names, but even I couldn't figure out what songs they were supposed to be playing when I watched the YouTube video.
Most of the audience – who were most definitely more fans of Metallica fans in 1990 than they were of the Little Rock punk scene – just kinda stood there and went Ohhh-kay?
― pplains, Sunday, 9 June 2019 17:51 (five years ago) link
man, scalping tickets for your own fucking band is so shitty
https://www.billboard.com/articles/business/8521538/live-nation-resale-market-secretly-recorded-phone-calls-concert-tickets
― budo jeru, Monday, 22 July 2019 17:35 (four years ago) link
Kirk Is so boringImagine what could have been
― calstars, Sunday, 19 June 2022 05:57 (one year ago) link
all of uscan nowbe metallica
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urqO95exaIE
― Western® with Bacon Flavor, Sunday, 19 June 2022 06:31 (one year ago) link
Imagine “Orion” with a swinging drummer
― calstars, Friday, 10 May 2024 04:41 (one month ago) link