^ When this guy plays the pattern, you can hear the 4/4.
― Working night & day, I tried to stay awake... (Turrican), Sunday, 19 February 2017 06:05 (seven years ago) link
'Little by Little' has another syncopation trick, where the main riff sounds as if it should be on the "on" beat but is on the "off" beat instead.
― Working night & day, I tried to stay awake... (Turrican), Sunday, 19 February 2017 18:08 (seven years ago) link
this is a fun one to try to follow:
julie grant "stop"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kz0XOly6l0
― fact checking cuz, Monday, 6 March 2017 22:39 (seven years ago) link
this one from bee gees' 1st has always made me a little dizzy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JaUaIEh9F8
― fact checking cuz, Friday, 28 December 2018 18:05 (five years ago) link
I've been trying to figure this one out for a while (the intro into the beginning of the song)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYfvzo331Pg
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Friday, 28 December 2018 18:48 (five years ago) link
Sure, 'cause the piano chords are anticipating the downbeat by a 16th note
― change display name (Jordan), Friday, 28 December 2018 18:53 (five years ago) link
“Where Will I Be” by Emmylou Harris is one of these. Check out the released studio version vs either the Spyboy version or the alternate version on the expanded Wrecking Ball. Tricksy downbeat.
― Una Palooka Dronka (hardcore dilettante), Friday, 28 December 2018 18:55 (five years ago) link
This one drives me crazy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rt5sdsKlYU
― MaresNest, Friday, 28 December 2018 19:03 (five years ago) link
Wow, I listened to that Emmylou one and thought I had it, but I was wrong and can't get back to how I heard it the first time. It's all due to that cool beat that Brian Blade is playing (and I checked out the live version, where his brother is on drums and doing a much more straight-forward beat).
― change display name (Jordan), Friday, 28 December 2018 19:10 (five years ago) link
In The Air Tonight.
― DT, Friday, 28 December 2018 19:15 (five years ago) link
"I'm Free" The Who, back and forth verse and chorus are seemingly different downbeats
― billstevejim, Thursday, November 19, 2009 2:44 AM (nine years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
On 'I'm Free', me and Pete had to play the drums and Keith played the breaks because he couldn't get the intro. He was hearing it differently from how we were, and he couldn't shake it off. So we put down the snare, the hi-hat and the tambourine part and he came in and added all the breaks. When we did it live, the only way to bring him in was for Pete and I to go like this [makes an exaggerated step], which must have looked completely nuts. — John Entwistle[4]
When they played it live on their 1975-76 tours, Pete phrased the guitar part differently so that the one was easier to discern. No longer did he have to make an exaggerated step to cue Moon for his entrance.
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Friday, 28 December 2018 19:41 (five years ago) link
Wow, I listened to that Emmylou one and thought I had it, but I was wrong and can't get back to how I heard it the first time. It's all due to that cool beat that Brian Blade is playing
i love that beat, but that one seems kind of straightforward to me. the opening gtr lick lands on the downbeat, as does the last word of every line in the verse.
― fact checking cuz, Friday, 28 December 2018 19:51 (five years ago) link
It seems obvious now, but I was somehow hearing everything land on the 4, with the whole band leaving out the downbeat, lol.
The beat is very second line-ish, very nice.
― change display name (Jordan), Friday, 28 December 2018 19:58 (five years ago) link
I never listened to the Who much but it's cool listening to that track knowing how it was recorded, that's hilarious.
― change display name (Jordan), Friday, 28 December 2018 20:05 (five years ago) link
Similarly, the first two minutes of this track by a friend's band always confounds me. The bass doesn't start on the downbeat (I think there's one 8th note of anticipation), and the key is that the snare is actually on the backbeat (with the hi-hat accents on the upbeats), but it totally doesn't feel like that. It doesn't make sense until the heavy part two minutes in.
Apparently the bass player still thinks of it totally differently from the rest of the drummer, and still somehow works live even though they disagree where the downbeat is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SXP6OeDIqk
― change display name (Jordan), Friday, 28 December 2018 20:09 (five years ago) link
― change display name (Jordan), Friday, December 28, 2018 1:53 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
That's what's going on DURING the verse, but I can't hear it in the transition between the intro and the verse, I think maybe the downbeat just shifts
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Friday, 28 December 2018 20:32 (five years ago) link
Idk I'm pretty sure it's the same from the beginning, but it's hard to feel since the bassline is so squirrelly too. But I can tap it out and it seems to line up once the percussion comes in.
― change display name (Jordan), Friday, 28 December 2018 20:44 (five years ago) link
"Tomorrow is Already Here" by Stereolab does this to me, but it's also in 5/4 which accounts for part of the disorientation.
― Lavator Shemmelpennick, Wednesday, 2 January 2019 18:55 (five years ago) link
That one's easy once the maraca comes in pretty much immediately.
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Wednesday, 2 January 2019 20:15 (five years ago) link
It might have been mentioned already but does Roxy Music’s « the bogey man » work here ?The drums seem pretty tricky.
― AlXTC from Paris, Thursday, 3 January 2019 23:10 (five years ago) link
Bogus Man !
― AlXTC from Paris, Thursday, 3 January 2019 23:11 (five years ago) link
Why Music Experts Are Fighting About Ludacris
― fact checking cuz, Friday, 13 November 2020 20:51 (three years ago) link
The chiming 12-string bridge section of "Stairway To Heaven" is a good example of this, there's another thread that goes into it. This video (warning: dude is annoying af) goes into it if you can stomach watching all the way through:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhlLtd19szw
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Friday, 13 November 2020 20:57 (three years ago) link
The Ludacris thing is a very stupid argument because all you need to do to get the answer is listen to the entire song instead of just the chorus
― DJP, Friday, 13 November 2020 20:59 (three years ago) link
everything theo parrish has ever made
― Give me a Chad Smith-type feel (map), Friday, 13 November 2020 21:00 (three years ago) link
The Ludacris thing, I'm in the third group camp. Sounds like a latin jazz rhythm (muntuno?)
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Friday, 13 November 2020 22:07 (three years ago) link
Genesis - "Keep It Dark."
The guitar-only intro sounds like a loping waltz. Then the drums and keys come in, and you realize you've been listening to the off-beats of a 6/4 groove.
― Weston-super-Mare, Minehead, Lynmouth, Ilfracome, etc. (SlimAndSlam), Friday, 13 November 2020 22:17 (three years ago) link
The Ludacris thing...yes, it's a weird beat that feels very ungrounded, and the harmonic movement of the horns make you want to feel a downbeat on the & of 1, instead of on 1.
But OF COURSE the drums are in 'half time', and of course the snare is playing backbeats.
― change display name (Jordan), Friday, 13 November 2020 22:23 (three years ago) link
yeah i found it easy to hear 2 or 3 possible downbeats at first, but once i locked in on that same understanding -- snare playing backbeats -- it suddenly became impossible for me to hear it any other way.
― fact checking cuz, Friday, 13 November 2020 22:27 (three years ago) link
So crazy to me that I would have definitely lined up the horn phrase with the second note landing on the downbeat, like a square, but Timbaland made a CHOICE.
― change display name (Jordan), Friday, 13 November 2020 22:47 (three years ago) link
Had to look it up, Tim used a sample (err... interpolation) of the opening horns & rhythm (tumbai/muntuno) of this Senegal Africando song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiOMHAi4Bto
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Friday, 13 November 2020 23:13 (three years ago) link
Good call on Keep it Dark. Glorious Om Riff by Steve Village is syncopated in a similar vein, as is Disko by Komeda.
― Publicradio (3×5), Saturday, 14 November 2020 03:49 (three years ago) link
Woo-Hah by Busta Rhymes? Definitely with Space by Galt McDermott, which provides the sample, it's hard to follow the downbeat all the way through the song.
― Publicradio (3×5), Saturday, 14 November 2020 03:55 (three years ago) link
Heartbeat by Chris & Cosey, just because the 808 clap isn't "supposed to be" on the downbeat.
― Publicradio (3×5), Saturday, 14 November 2020 03:57 (three years ago) link
I’ve never able to follow the meter of this song (maybe that’s just my own failing):https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXU4P6j3TNY
― it's AG in your faaaace.... (morrisp), Saturday, 14 November 2020 05:45 (three years ago) link
I didn't follow the Ludacris debate but, listening now, idk why you wouldn't just hear the snare as the backbeat.
― I guess I'd be lonesome (Sund4r), Saturday, 14 November 2020 06:07 (three years ago) link
the ariana song is a mid-tempo 4/4 with the fingersnaps on 3.
― fact checking cuz, Saturday, 14 November 2020 10:03 (three years ago) link
what makes "get well soon" hard to follow is it's heavily syncopated and often there isn't anything on the 1
― ufo, Saturday, 14 November 2020 10:43 (three years ago) link
Ride of the Valkyries. I just discovered the downbeat is not where I always thought it was, and I'm guessing most other people mis-hear it as well. I was watching a Youtube video, and the conductor looked out of time until I realized....whoa. My mind is kind of blown.
― Guy on the internet (B'wana Beast), Sunday, 22 November 2020 06:20 (three years ago) link
I'm very curious about this, because I can't imagine it anywhere else?
― change display name (Jordan), Wednesday, 25 November 2020 19:04 (three years ago) link
Trying to unhear it the way I do and am pondering the string stabs during the main riff?
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Wednesday, 25 November 2020 19:06 (three years ago) link
Here are two ways to hear Ride of the Valkyries, in each the downbeat is capitalized. 1 2 3 1 2 31) DUT dadut daaaaa daaaaa DUT dadut daaaaa daaaaa etc.
1 2 3 1 2 2) dut dadut DAAAAA daaaaa dut dadut DAAAAA daaaaa etc.
The first one is how Wagner wrote it. The second is the way I've always heard it.
― Guy on the internet (B'wana Beast), Friday, 27 November 2020 08:39 (three years ago) link
I'm interested in this phenomenon, especially when you're approaching a dance rig and the first round you hear are the high hats, but because you perceive them out of time they take on an almost ska-like quality 'mm-TSSS-UH mm-TSSS-UH' until you get closer and hear the kick drum and the whole beat switches into place. Any dance producers played on this before?
― Specific Ocean Blue (dog latin), Friday, 27 November 2020 10:21 (three years ago) link
"Lost In Music" always gives me a little double take, which is part of the pleasure imo - it's like 'the pocket' is so deep in this song, the pocket has a pocket of its own
― Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Friday, 27 November 2020 21:41 (three years ago) link
dl I have "played" on this many times by accidentally lining the records up on the off-beat ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
― Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Friday, 27 November 2020 21:42 (three years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSroXhI2uZs
Ahhh, that makes sense re: Valkyries. I've always heard the 1st way but the 2nd way makes sense.
― change display name (Jordan), Friday, 27 November 2020 21:46 (three years ago) link
Dog latin - same.
I don't really get the Sister Sledge thing because the beat is so strong. But I have a hard time hearing the intro to Rufus & Chaka 'Tell Me Something Good' correctly, with the wah wah keys on the downbeat and the bass on the upbeat.
― change display name (Jordan), Friday, 27 November 2020 22:12 (three years ago) link
catches me off guard every time it finally "snaps into place" on this one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxZvikbX7RA
― cosmic vision | bleak epiphany | erotic email (map), Friday, 27 November 2020 22:22 (three years ago) link
I must admit, when I listen to Valkyries, I only hear it Wagner's way-- the chords are also changing on the downbeat
That said, had you asked me to sit down at the piano and play it, prior to "just now", when I rewatched/relistened, I would've absolutely weighted it (and had the chords change) as you've described in your 2nd example, B'wana Beast. Interesting
Also wild to hear how John Williams's whole "heroic" mode contains all these orchestral devices
― flamboyant goon tie included, Friday, 27 November 2020 22:52 (three years ago) link